On 23 Aug 2000, Alan Shutko wrote:
> Matt Nelson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > Btw, even using Emacs to read the Emacs Info page, I *still* wouldn't have
> > been able to figure out the above command.
>
> Not surprising, since the above invocation is a hack to replace the
> standalone version of info with info running in Emacs, without the
> rest of Emacs intruding.
"a hack" is not how system documentation should be accessed. this is
ugly, and it is genuinely difficult to figure out how to do it. it would
be basically impossible for a new user (the ones who need documentation
the most).
> > So you have shown me that:
> > - the Emacs Info pages do not explain how to read Info with Emacs.
>
> No, but the Emacs menu can start info, and the screen you see at
> startup when you invoke emacs without any arguments tells you how to
> read the info documentation.
OK, you can access the Info tree from the menu. but the startup screen
is no help; on my RH6.1 box it does not mention Info:
Welcome to Gnu Emacs, one component of a Linux-based GNU system.
The menu bar and scroll bar are sufficient for basic editing with the
mouse.
Useful File menu items:
Exit Emacs (or type Control-x followed by Control-c)
Recover Session recover files you were editing before a crash
Important Help menu items:
Emacs Tutorial Learn-by-doing tutorial for using Emacs efficiently
(Non)Warranty GNU Emacs comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY
Copying Conditions Conditions for redistributing and changing Emacs.
Getting New Versions How to obtain the latest version of Emacs.
Gnu Emacs 20.4.1 (i386-redhat-linux-gnu, X toolkit)
of Sat Sep 25 1999 on porky.devel.redhat.com
Copyright (C) 1999 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
-1:-- *scratch* (Lisp Interaction)--L5--All------------------
For information about the GNU Project and its goals, type C-h C-p.
> > - to read Info pages with Emacs, you need the info-standalone function,
> > you need to KNOW that you need this function, and you need to know
> > how to use this function.
>
> Nope. To read Info pages with Emacs, if you don't like Emacs and want
> to use it in as unobtrusive a way as possible, you need the
> info-standalone function. If you are an Emacs user, you hit C-h i or
> use the menu.
Sorry, but expecting people to think of typing "emacs" to read system
documentation is just plain silly. Your "hack" is clearly a command for
experts. I stand by the statement that Info is unusable for anybody other
than experts.
> > - Basically, you need to be an Emacs expert to even START reading Info
> > pages with it.
>
> No, you need to be an emacs expert (or know one) to replace the crappy
> standalone info with a more palatable one.
This is what I said. So I have two choices: use a crappy Info browser,
or be an emacs expert. Both are unacceptable as a "standard" way to
document a system.
-matt
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Matthew Nelson
Dynamics Technology, Inc.
21311 Hawthorne Blvd., Suite 300, Torrance, CA 90503-5610
Voice: (310) 543-5433 FAX: (310) 543-2117 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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