Here's the problem. Suppose a public school in the USA has a "no headgear" dress code, and we have two religious groups that seek a religious accommodation. "Moderate" Christians (say, Methodists and Episcopalians) wear green headgear, and "extremist" Christians (say, Evangelicals and Catholics) wear red headgear. The School decides to permit green headgear for the "moderate" denominations, but not the red headgear for the "extremist" denominations.
Isn't this what happened over in the UK? The school accommodated some Muslims and allowed them to wear the "shalwar kameez," but refused to accommodate "extremist" Muslims and their "jilwab." Moreover, this distinction may have been based, at least in part, on religious bigotry (as the Times put it, because "other students, including [some] Muslims, said they felt threatened by the jilbab because they associated it with extremism.")
In the USA, this arguably constitutes a non-neutral burden under Smith and Lukumi and denominational discrimination under Larson v. Valente. Am I wrong?
Is this kind of denominational non-neutrality a factor under European law?
By the way, I am re-sending this post because it appears some of you may not have received it yesterday. My apologies if you are getting this for the second time.
Rick Duncan
Steven Jamar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Don't we do this all the time over here? An orthodox Jew can sport a
beard and other dress despite an employer's general policy against
this, while a reform Jew cannot. Muslim women can wear scarves in
school even though not all do, because for some it is felt to be
required and others not.
Or has this law changed?
On Thursday, March 3, 2005, at 02:49 PM, Rick Duncan wrote:
> Unequal accommodations with respect to religious attire--to
> accommodate "moderate" Muslims and their dress, but not "extremist"
> Muslims and their dress--would be a serious doctrinal problem both
> under FEC and EC (and EPC) here on this side of the Pond? No?
> Especially if there were evidence that the distinction was made
> because some students don't like the faiths perceived to > be"extremist."
>
>! ; Imagine a public school in America that adopted a uniform policy that
> allowed one kind of religious uniform, but not another. Denominational
> discrimination under Larson and non-neutral under Smith. No?
>
> Again, I don't know European religious liberty law, but if I were
> litigating a case like this, I would want to know if this kind of
> denominational discrimination is permissible.
>
> Rick Duncan
>
> Steven Jamar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:
>
> Isn't an accommodation denominational discrimination? And don't we
> encourage and even require that? It is troublesome only in the sense
> that sometimes applying the requirement is difficult or "troublesome."
> Is that what you meant or did you mean doctrinally troublesome?
>
> Steve Jamar
> On Thursday, March 3, 2005, at 02:16 PM, Rick Duncan wrote:
>
> > One problem with the uniform ! policy is that it does accommodate some
> > religious students, but not others. Here is the New York Times
> report:
> > "In contrast to French state schools, where students are prohibited
> > from wearing head scarves, Denbigh allows girls a choice: wearing
> > standard pants or skirts, or dressing in a shalwar kameez, a
> > traditional Muslim outfit consisting of pants covered by a tunic.
> Head
> > scarves are allowed if they meet certain criteria."!
> >
> > But they don't allow the "jilwab," apparently because it is regarded
> > as being associated with Muslim "extremism." This looks like
> > denominational discrimination to me. "Moderate" Muslims are allowed
> to
> > wear the "shalwar kameez," but "extremist" Muslims are not allowed to
> > wear the jilwab.
> >
> > I know almost nothing about European law (except tha! t which has crept
> > into U.S. Supreme Court opinions), but it seems to me that under any
> > kind of religious liberty/religious equality protection
> denominational
> > discrimination such as this should be troublesome. No?
> >
> > Rick Duncan
> >
> --
> Prof. Steven D. Jamar vox:
> 202-806-8017
> Howard University School of Law fax:
> 202-806-8428
> 2900 Van Ness Street NW
> mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Washington, DC 20008
> http://www.law.howard.edu/faculty/pages/jamar
>
> "Rarely do we find men who willing! ly engage in hard, solid thinking.
> There is an almost universal quest for easy answers and half-baked
> solutions. Nothing pains some people more than having to think."
>
> - Martin Luther King Jr., "Strength to Love", 1963
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see
> http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw
>
> Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as
> private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are
> posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can
> (rightly or wrongly) forward the messages to others.
>
>
>
> Rick Duncan
> Welpton Professor of Law
> University of Nebraska College of Law
> Lincoln, NE 68583-0902
> Red State Lawblog: www.redstatelaw.blogspot.com
>
> "When the Round Table is broken every man must foll! ow either Galahad
> or Mordred: middle things are gone." C.S.Lewis, Grand Miracle
>
> "I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, d! ebriefed, or
> numbered." --The Prisoner
>
>
>
>
> Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday!
> Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web
> _______________________________________________
> To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see
> http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw
>
> Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as
> private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are
> posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can
> (rightly or wrongly) forward the messages to others.
--
Prof. Steven D. Jamar vox: 202-806-8017
Howard University School of Law fax: 202-806-8567
2900 Van Ness Street NW mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Washington, DC 20008 http://www.law.howard.edu/faculty/pages/jamar/
"The aim of edu! cation must be the training of independently acting and
thinking individuals who, however, see in the service to the community
their highest life achievement."
Albert Einstein
_______________________________________________
To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu
To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw
Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the messages to others.
Rick Duncan
Welpton Professor of Law
University of Nebraska College of Law
Lincoln, NE 68583-0902
Red State Lawblog: www.redstatelaw.blogspot.com
"When the Round Table is broken every man must follow either Galahad or Mordred: middle things are gone." C.S.Lewis, Grand Miracle
"I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed, or numbered." --The Prisoner
Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday!
Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web
_______________________________________________ To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw
Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the messages to others.
