The aim of this 10 meter repeater, during its first 4 to 5 years of operation was to provide a 10 Meter FM repeater for local use. It started with both receive and transmit antennas being verticals. But I found that no one in our metropolitan area of about 4000 to 5000 licensed amateurs was interested in LOCAL communications. on 10 meters. They had 2 meter repeaters for local communications ( and their are 30 to 40 2 meter repeaters located within 30 miles of my location). They could also use the 3 six meter repeaters and the 20 to 30 UHF repeaters for local use.
I then attached the 2 meter cross-band repeater and got a few local hams interested with the idea that they could get on 10 meters. But they never quite understood that they were on a cross-band repeater and could only hear with the local 29.56 receiver heard. What they really wanted was a remote base on 29.56/66 from the 2 meter repeater.The idea that they were listening on an input from a 10 meter repeater and transmitting on the output of a 10 meter repeater never could be quite understood by the 2 meter operators. The question of "why can't I hear all of the other people on the different 29.66 repeaters" was constantly raised. My current plans call for installing a 100 watt Motorola Maratrac multiple channel mobile on 10 meters and cross-connect it to a Motorola MSF5000 UHF repeater that I operate. This will replace the 10 meter repeater. Now I can offer a multiple channel 10 meter FM cross-connected "repeater" that can be used on the 10 meter repeater channels as well as the 10 meter FM simplex channels. I think this planned 10 meter station better fits what the amateurs in the Twin Cities Metro area expect of 10 meter FM and will get some support from local hams. Paul K0LAV -------------- Original message -------------- From: "Paul Plack" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Paul, What was your goal for the repeater? Was it intended to be useful for distant users during band openings, or for locals when the band was dead? Using a horizontal dipole on the receiver punished mobiles running vertical whips by as much as 20 - 25 dB, and have coverage nulls off the ends of the dipole, so it's no wonder the machine was hard to hit. (-20 dB would make your 100-watt mobile equivalent to running 1 watt.) The same would be true in reverse on the output...guys running horizontally polarized dipoles or HF beams would get poor signals on the repeater output. (-20 dB from 60 watts is... 600 milliwatts!) Besides...what self-respecting HF operator with a tribander wants to work a local repeater? He's probably after DX. The distant stations you worked crossband were able to both hit and hear the machine because skip causes rotation of the original polarization, and it can even be received better vertical at one point, and horizontal at a spot 5 miles away, at the same moment. But...guys in other states aren't likely to support your repeater financially. It might have worked out better had you chosen a specific mission, then built the repeater to be optimum for that purpose. I'm interested in building a 10m repeater, but I'd just as soon shut it down during band openings. What's fun for me is to have DX when the band is open, and good local communications with the same rig when the band goes dead. That means, for me, I'll want high, vertical antennas at both sites to favor mobiles. A 10m repeater can have superb local and regional coverage using vertical antennas at good sites. When I lived in Atlanta in the mid-80s, we had a great local bunch on 10 FM, and a local repeater which covered the metro beautifully with vertical antennas. There was also a machine in Albany, GA I could hit with my converted CB mobile if I was in a clear spot. That's 140 miles, not too shabby for a 4-foot helically-wound fiberglass whip and 3 watts. I could hit it from anywhere in the Atlanta area with the 70-watt amp, but had too much mobile noise to hear it reliably. If you want a repeater which works well for both horizontal and vertical polarization, it would be worth trying circular polarization, using crossed dipoles like the satellite guys use. Circular polarization would allow both horizontal and vertical users to hit and hear the machine with only 3 dB loss, compared to a dipole optimized for their polarization. It would also greatly reduce fading on DX signals during band openings. But...if you were looking for financial support, verticals would probably be the way to go. 73, Paul, AE4KR ----- Original Message ----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 6:21 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] 10 meter repeater I have been operating a 10 meter FM repeater on 29.56/29/66 for the last 15+ years in Minnesota. It was a split site repeater with the repeater IDer/at the receive site and a cross-connect to a 2 meter repeater where a full function 2 port repeater controller provided the ID and control. . The equipment consisted of GE Mastr PRO equipment at both the receive site and the transmit site. The repeater transmitter ran approx 60 watts out. Antennas were a horizontial dipole at the receive site (as most of the users will be running horizontial polarized beams at their base stations) and a vertical antenna at the transmitter site. The two sites were separated by 5 to 7 miles and a 445 Mhz auxiliary link was used between the sites. The receive dipole was about 70 feet above the ground and about 150 feet above average terrain. The transmitter antenna was located about 60 feet above the ground and about 90 feet above average terrain. I found that I got almost zero support ( financial or equipment) from local amateurs as none of them used the repeater because they expected excellent ground wave coverage and it did not occur. Most of my repeater users were in the 1200 to 1400 mile radius zone from the transmitter. I worked a lot of Florida mobiles on my repeater sometimes contacting the same mobile multiple times a day as they drove from Daytona Beach south towards Miami. When I got on the my 10 meter repeater frequency I found the repeaters I was bringing up were located in Puerto Rico and Florida and along the west coast in California. The only way I could talk to someone local (in Minnesota) was thru the 2 meter cross-connect. (and my 10 meter mobile was a 100 watt output Motorola X9000 radio). I finally gave up the 29.56/29.66 pair this last year as I lost use of the 10 meter receive site ( the amateur radio operator that I shared this site with died and his family revoved the tower that it was on). I had fun operating this repeater, but it was time to quit putting my amateur radio funds in something that was not helping myself or the local amateurs. Hope this gives you some ideas on what you can use for equipment for a 10 meter repeater and what type of coverage/opeation you can expect on this band. Make sure you add a 222 or 444 Mhz repeater cross connect to your 10 meter repeater so that you can use it locally). Let me know if you have questions. Paul K0LAV White Bear Lake, MN -------------- Original message -------------- From: "tom_kd8deg" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I want to thank all of you that responed to my quary about puting up a 10 meter repeater. Your information is going to be a big help in decideing whether to put up a repeater, also if we do put one on the air, this info will put us in the right direction. 73 All de Tom KD8DEG
