Christian,

Thanks for the response!

>Have you used Google Reader? In Google Reader, as you scroll through a list
of posts, it will mark the ones you've scrolled past (or interacted with) as
"read." This makes it very easy to see all the posts or just the posts you
haven't gotten to yet.

I haven't used Google Reader, but I think I know what you mean, i.e. similar
to the gmail, outlook etc that bolds the subject line? I think this would be
good, but my preference is to make the indication more explicit. Just
bolding or italicizing a file name isn't concrete enough since visual
indications can be unconsciously ignored or inadvertently applied.

In any case, it also has to be un-doable (just like outlook allows you to
"mark as unread").

>I could also see allowing easily hiding/showing of a diff. Kind of an
expander (not diff chunk expansion) where you could collapse the entire
thing down to one line with the file's name. That requires a bit more manual
work to keep track of where you are, though.

I think this and the above together would be a very powerful UI addition to
RB. For example, I could "collapse all" which would show the entire list of
files as a simple list, with the "ok/not ok" as one of the columns. Then I
could very quickly find the file that's missing and review it. Also it's a
great visual progress indicator.

The caveat, I think, is the collapsed list has to show *all* the
files, whether new, deleted, modified, in the current revision or not. That
sounds more complicated for implementation but from a user perspective, it's
a whole lot of nice-to-have.

Of course, if RB could assist me by marking a file as "not ok" whenever a
new comment is applied to it by any reviewer, I wouldn't object!

> I want to know if it would work for your needs, though.

I need assistance in tracking the changes developers are doing wrt to fixes
based on reviews. The initial reviews are straightforward, but I need to
ensure that they have, in fact, implemented the changes from the reviews and
that the updates were also reviewed. Since initial commits are whole files
and not just a few diffs, there can be a large number of comments per file
and of course a large number of files. It quickly gets out of hand,
especially when the updates for the comments are put in a few at a time or
by different developers.

In short, at the end of this process, I need to be able to state with
explicit evidence that:
- all the reviewers have reviewed the file by applying some positive
indication, either a comment or an "OK"
- all of the comments have been addressed, either by a code update or by a
discussion indicating everyone agrees the code is OK as is.
- all of the code updates were reviewed
- ...and follow that tail recursion on down to the last turtle :)

I can handle these by imposing rules on the developers, but having a tool
guide the process is much much better.

John

(PS the "explicit evidence" is for the FDA and our internal quality folks
but is applicable to any regulated environment, e.g. FAA, DOD, others?)



On Sun, Aug 29, 2010 at 4:05 PM, Christian Hammond <chip...@chipx86.com>wrote:

> Hi John,
>
> Have you used Google Reader? In Google Reader, as you scroll through a list
> of posts, it will mark the ones you've scrolled past (or interacted with) as
> "read." This makes it very easy to see all the posts or just the posts you
> haven't gotten to yet.
>
> Would something like that suffice? Visually indicate and internally store
> which diffs you've read vs. the ones you haven't, and allow for quick
> filtering of which ones you have or haven't seen.
>
> I would personally like a model like this, though I think we'd have to play
> with it a bit. I want to know if it would work for your needs, though.
>
> I could also see allowing easily hiding/showing of a diff. Kind of an
> expander (not diff chunk expansion) where you could collapse the entire
> thing down to one line with the file's name. That requires a bit more manual
> work to keep track of where you are, though.
>
> Christian
>
> --
> Christian Hammond - chip...@chipx86.com
> Review Board - http://www.reviewboard.org
> VMware, Inc. - http://www.vmware.com
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 9:34 AM, J Arrizza <cppge...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Christian,
>>
>> I agree with you as well. However, when someone does publish a massive
>> review, I have no recourse.
>>
>> Here are some suggestions (and only suggestions, meant only to get some
>> conversation going):
>>
>> -  allow me to put a comment at a file level (i.e. not on a line number
>> within the file). I can use that to indicate "OK".
>> -  allow me to put a status on a file. A status is just an "ok/not ok"
>> indication, no text can be entered. Then allow the file status to cross
>> revisions, i.e. whenever I view any revision, I get a complete list of files
>> from all revisions. The only diffs I see are for the current revision, but I
>> can see all statuses for all files.
>> - allow me to put a status on a file, plus have RB keep track of the total
>> number of comments for that file across all revisions.
>> - have a status (ok/not ok) at the file level, one for each revieiwer.
>> Initially the status is "not ok". A new comment on any revision  for that
>> file resets the file status to "not ok". All reviewers can then go in, look
>> at the new comment and/or code fix, and reset the status (for them) to "ok".
>> -  allow me to remove a diff/file from the current review.
>> -  allow me to move a diff/file to another, new, review.
>> - give me full GUI support for splitting up an existing review (whatever
>> that means! :)
>>
>> Are any of these easy to implement given the current RB architecture?
>>
>>
>> John
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 2:34 AM, Christian Hammond 
>> <chip...@chipx86.com>wrote:
>>
>>> I'll second this. It really is beneficial to try to break up the changes
>>> more. Preferably into logical changes (such as code to implement one part of
>>> the functionality rather than an entire feature, or doing code cleanups in a
>>> separate change), though if you're past the point where that makes sense,
>>> even breaking it up into file paths (potentially based on who is most
>>> familiar with certain groups of files) would probably help.
>>>
>>> I've seen this a lot too, where really large changes of mine have sat
>>> around because they're too long to review. Not only do people avoid them
>>> initially (since it requires such a time commitment), but the feedback isn't
>>> as good as it could be. Smaller changes receive better review and can get
>>> into the product sooner.
>>>
>>>
>>> Christian
>>>
>>>  --
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-- 
John
blog: http://arrizza.blogspot.com/
web: http://www.arrizza.com/

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