no, you want to keep it simple
Ad the nodes have to know about each other, so they can tell their secondary
and tertiary

On Sun, Feb 8, 2009 at 1:00 AM, Tapio Kulmala <[email protected]>wrote:

> Ok....
>
> I'm still assuming that the client is the only one who knows what the
> secondary and tertiary nodes are for the primary node.
>
> If the primary node is down, could you just swap the roles of those nodes.
> Make the unavailable node tertiary and go on as usual?
>
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 8, 2009 at 12:53 AM, Ayende Rahien <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> No, that is the problem that this is supposed to deal with.I am not
>> straight yet on the issue of how to deal with the node configuration.
>>
>> The design for the new version of Rhino DHT is simple. We continue to
>> support only three operations on the wire, Put, Get and Remove. But we also
>> introduced a new notion. Failover servers. Every node in the DHT has a
>> secondary and tertiary nodes defined to it. Those nodes are also full
>> fledged nodes in the DHT, capable of handling their own stuff.
>>
>> During normal operation, any successful Put or Remove operation will be
>> sent via async messages to the secondary and tertiary nodes. If a node goes
>> down, the client library is responsible for detecting that and moving to the
>> secondary node, and the tertiary one if that is down as well. Get is pretty
>> simple in this regard, as you can imagine, the node needs to simply serve
>> the request from local storage. Put and Remove operations are more complex,
>> the logic for doing this is the same as always, include all the conflict
>> resolution, etc. But in addition to that, the Put and Remove requests will
>> generate async messages to the primary and tertiary nodes (if using the
>> secondary as fallback, and primary and secondary if using the tertiary as
>> fallback).
>>
>> That way, when the primary come back up, it can catch up with work that
>> was done while it was down.
>> The question of how to store the data about the nodes ,however, remains. I
>> think that I'll store it as replicated value in all the nodes. So we have a
>> list of all the nodes and their secondary and tertiary there.
>>
>> On Sun, Feb 8, 2009 at 12:49 AM, Tapio Kulmala <[email protected]>wrote:
>>
>>> Doesn't that algorithm always get the data for key xxx from the same
>>> node? If the node is down you'll hit the real data store but you'll never
>>> switch to another node. Or do you take the node out from your nodes list?
>>>
>>>
>>> Tapio
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Feb 8, 2009 at 12:35 AM, Ayende Rahien <[email protected]>wrote:
>>>
>>>> Right now, this information is stored on the client side.The client has
>>>> a list of nodes and get/store the data in them using the following
>>>> algorithm:
>>>>
>>>> public Value Get(string key)
>>>> {
>>>>    return nodes[ key.GetHashCode() % nodes.Length].Get(key)
>>>> }
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Feb 8, 2009 at 12:19 AM, Tapio Kulmala 
>>>> <[email protected]>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I don't know anything about Rhino DHT so this might be a really stupid
>>>>> question. You said that that each node is each node is totally isolated 
>>>>> from
>>>>> all the rest. How does the client initially know what nodes exists and 
>>>>> where
>>>>> the data might be stored?
>>>>>
>>>>> Tapio
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Feb 7, 2009 at 9:17 PM, Ayende Rahien <[email protected]>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>  My initial design when building Rhino DHT was that it would work in a
>>>>>> similar manner to Memcached, with the addition of multi versioned values 
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> persistence. That is, each node is completely isolated from all the rest,
>>>>>> and it is the client that is actually creating the illusion of 
>>>>>> distributed
>>>>>> cohesion.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The only problem with this approach is reliability. That is, if a node
>>>>>> goes down, all the values that are stored in it are gone. This is not a
>>>>>> problem for Memcached. If the node is down, all you have to do is to hit 
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> actual data source. Memcached is *not *a data store, it is a cache,
>>>>>> and it is allowed to remove values when you want it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For Rhino DHT, that is not the case. I am using it to store the saga
>>>>>> details for Rhino Service Bus, as well as storing persistent state.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The first plan was to use it as is. If a node is down, it would cause
>>>>>> an error during load saga state stage (try to say *that* three times
>>>>>> fast!), which would eventually move the message to the error queue, when 
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> node came back up, we could move the messages from the error queue to the
>>>>>> main queue and be done with it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My current client had some objections to that, from his perspective,
>>>>>> if any node in the DHT was down, the other nodes should take over
>>>>>> automatically, without any interruption of service. That is… somewhat 
>>>>>> more
>>>>>> complex to handle.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well, actually, it isn't more complex to handle. I was able to
>>>>>> continue with my current path for everything (including full transparent
>>>>>> failover for reads and writes).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What I was *not *able to solve, however, was how to handle a node
>>>>>> coming back *up*. Or, to be rather more exact, I run into a problem
>>>>>> there because the only way to solve this cleanly was to use messaging. 
>>>>>> But,
>>>>>> of course, Rhino Service Bus is dependent on Rhino DHT. And creating a
>>>>>> circular reference would just make things more complex, even if it was
>>>>>> broken with interfaces in the middle.
>>>>>> Thoughts?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> >
>

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