If I were on Facebook I would say "Like it". I add my thanks too.
Radovan Radovan Cerny Laboratoire de Cristallographie, DQMP Université de Genève 24, quai Ernest-Ansermet CH-1211 Geneva 4, Switzerland Phone : [+[41] 22] 37 964 50, FAX : [+[41] 22] 37 961 08 mailto : [email protected] URL : http://www.unige.ch/sciences/crystal/cerny/rcerny.htm -----Message d'origine----- De : [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] De la part de Lubomir Smrcok Envoyé : vendredi 12 juin 2015 07:12 À : chenhh Cc : [email protected] Objet : Re: Politics-RE: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook Thanks for adding just this comment ! While reading it I have realized that the group is mostly populated by people who have either never experienced open censoring of their communication (OK, some big brothering is everywhere) or have already forgotten those times (Eastern Europe). Your opinion must be taken into account very seriously when thinking of face-booking of this group. Best, Lubo On Fri, 12 Jun 2015, chenhh wrote: > Hello! > After finishing so many excellent discussion, I think a trivial appeared > but serious indeed problem is omitted. That is politics. In fact, Facebook, > Youtube,and even Google load or cover many contents forbidden by some > countries, so the goverments stop their people to visit the whole sites > though they also know there are still many useful things on them, but they > can't support the selection of the so called good things for their people . > Of course, the managers of the above sites also reject to filter the contens > forbidden by the country law. > > So I think at least the maillist is better now but not Facebook or > other so called "free"states, unless you want to set up a site only > for USA,UK and some other countries. well, if so, I think it is > Rietveld group of the WEST, but not Rietveld group of the WORLD, :)) > > Dr.Haohong Chen > > Shanghai Institute of Ceramics > > CAS > > P.R.China > > > > ======= 2015-06-11 19:29:00 ????????======= > >> Well, >> Strictly speaking, you are wasting your time in (formally) two >> different ways :-) And you shouldn't forget to tweet about it and to >> take a selfie while typing. >> Lubo >> >> >> On Thu, 11 Jun 2015, Cline, James Dr. wrote: >> >>> >>> Not a great deal of difference between these entities, IMHO. >>> >>> >>> >>> Jim >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> James P. Cline >>> Materials Measurement Science Division National Institute of >>> Standards and Technology >>> 100 Bureau Dr. stop 8520 [ B113 / Bldg 217 ] >>> Gaithersburg, MD 20899-8523 USA >>> [email protected] >>> (301) 975 5793 >>> FAX (301) 975 5334 >>> >>> >>> >>> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] >>> On Behalf Of Darren Broom >>> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2015 11:17 AM >>> To: Young Lindsay Kay; [email protected] >>> Subject: Re: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook >>> >>> >>> >>> On a related note, with regard to accessing Facebook at work, I >>> generally only use it to keep in touch with friends; and I try to >>> avoid mixing the two. I'm sure I'm not alone in doing this. >>> >>> For work-related activities, etc, I tend to use LinkedIn. >>> >>> Best regards, >>> >>> Darren >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: [email protected] >>> Sent: Thu, 11 Jun 2015 14:40:31 +0000 >>> To: [email protected] >>> Subject: Re: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook >>> >>> As one of the younger members of the list, I would like to add a few >>> points. >>> >>> >>> >>> I may never have found this list on my own if my advisor was not >>> kind enough to point it out to me. I have never seen a mailing list >>> before in my life :) To that end social media outlets may be helpful >>> for newcomers. But I am very happy to be a member and will gladly >>> learn/join whatever format is chosen. So many people helped me get >>> to where I am today by kindly answering my basic questions that I >>> feel obligated to do the same for other newcomers. >>> >>> >>> >>> I strongly believe in open-mindedness toward the new. Regardless, I >>> think that social media may be most useful for publicity and >>> outreach if we wish to seek out new members, but I don't think >>> social media formats are friendly to discussion. Facebook's format, >>> for example, would not allow for easy archiving of replies and they >>> would easily become buried as time passed. Another problem with >>> social media is that for those who are at work or school, being seen >>> on facebook or other social media may be forbidden if not frowned upon, >>> even if they were being honestly productive. >>> >>> >>> >>> I agree that fewer streams of consciousness are preferable. If we >>> wish to move at all, I propose that a forum format may be the best >>> for consideration? >>> >>> >>> ____________________________________________________________________ >>> ________ >>> >>> >>> From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on >>> behalf of Daxu Liu <[email protected]> >>> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2015 9:06 AM >>> To: Leopoldo Suescun; [email protected] >>> Subject: Re: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook >>> >>> >>> >>> Dear prof. Suescun, >>> >>> I agree with you, and I have written to you some times ago. You do >>> be an enthusiastic and generous man. Thank you very much! >>> >>> Yes, many beginners do ask lots of basic points on crystallography >>> and some basic steps on how to use some refinement programmes, and I was >>> one of them. >>> However, someone has no choice to ask someone for help because >>> he/she maybe study oneself, and crystallography is not his/her >>> major. I was crazy on the Rietveld method in the past just for the >>> interest, and I had to write to some people for help because I can >>> not solve some problems even after I searched the answers in Google >>> or other search engines. I am very appreciated for those people who >>> helped me like you and Dr. Toby, Brian H., and Dr. Rodriguez-Carvajal, J. >>> and other respectable and kind people. >>> >>> I have studied the Rietveld method for eight years myself through >>> the web and reading some books, and I have published few papers on >>> it, which are colsely related to my research areas. >>> >>> In a word, I feel, if you know about it and have spare time, it will >>> be possible to encourage and help someone greatly when you answer >>> his or her some basic questions (maybe stupied questions,:) ). >>> >>> Best regards, Daxu >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ____________________________________________________________________ >>> ________ >>> >>> >>> From: Leopoldo Suescun <[email protected]> >>> To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> >>> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2015 4:33 PM >>> Subject: Re: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook >>> >>> >>> >>> Dear Colleagues, >>> IMHO the Rietveld List is for rather advanced students and >>> scientists that are rather fanatic, not for the kind of beginners >>> that may look for assistance in facebook. >>> >>> One of such students will find our discussions impossible to >>> understand at minimum if not simply crazy, full of self-references, >>> old discussions and rivalries. We have even read some rude replies >>> to students whose knowledge was evidently far below the minimum >>> required to perform a meaningful refinement, or question to the >>> list. So maybe it would not be advisable for a very young and >>> untrained student to join our list and ask very basic questions. >>> >>> I think the facebook page will reach to other public that will never >>> come to us on a first basis and probably shouldn?t, but that will >>> eventually be ready for the list after some time. >>> >>> One point in favor of the facebook discussion group or other social >>> media channels is that all of our Universities and Institutes(*see >>> below) are on Facebook/Twitter/RG, etc, and more and more "younger" >>> and not quite colleagues are using them too, for dissemination of >>> careers, teaching programs, events, job advertising, and even >>> knowledge, so denying that Facebook, Twitter, Research Gate, etc. >>> may be of help to disseminate the Rietveld Method in particular and >>> knowledge in general is like denying reality. >>> >>> I?m not going to judge if the for-profit, business oriented attitude >>> of the companies that manage these social networks is favorable for >>> spreading science or not (probably not), but it may be a good idea >>> that we use the networks to allow younger colleagues becoming >>> crystallographers to learn the science from scientists and >>> eventually lead them to the Rietveld List when they have enough knowledge >>> to ask meaningful questions. >>> >>> Actually the IUCr (our IUCr) is in Facebook and I have participated >>> in discussion where it is is looking for ways to spread the >>> knowledge by all possible means, so I bet authorities will salute >>> this move towards modern (not necessarily better, I agree) tools. >>> >>> As much as I have replied to crystallography questions in this list >>> and Research Gate I?ll do the same on Facebook, Twitter or whatever >>> other forum I?m at, and will suggest students seeking for deeper >>> understanding to walk the way by themselves reading books, papers >>> and why not the Rietveld Mailing Archive, and eventually seeking >>> support from well trained scientists in the Rietveld List. And I >>> foresee many links in Facebook to the rietveld_list_archives for >>> everyone to use this accumulated knowledge, while Mark Zuckerberg >>> tries to sell them X-ray instruments, or X-files DVDs or X-plane >>> tickets or whatever the automatic software that drops advertisement in our >>> screen understands of what we talk about... >>> >>> With best regards, >>> >>> Leo >>> >>> * List of important labs and universities I found in Facebook in 1 >>> minute >>> search: >>> >>> https://www.facebook.com/iucr.org?fref=ts >>> >>> https://www.facebook.com/cnrs.fr?fref=ts >>> >>> https://www.facebook.com/pages/Institut-Laue-Langevin-ILL/1484526518 >>> 46298?f >>> ref=ts >>> >>> https://www.facebook.com/pages/DESY/103119693061304?fref=ts >>> >>> https://www.facebook.com/MITnews?fref=ts >>> >>> https://www.facebook.com/imperialcollegelondon?fref=ts >>> >>> https://www.facebook.com/usnistgov?fref=ts >>> >>> need more? >>> >>> >>> >>> 2015-06-10 16:29 GMT-03:00 AICr2014 <[email protected]>: >>> >>> Dear Colleagues, >>> IMHO the Rietveld List is for rather advanced students and >>> scientists that are rather fanatic, not for the kind of beginners >>> that may look for assistance in facebook. >>> >>> One of such students will find our discussions impossible to >>> understand at minimum if not simply crazy, full of self-references, >>> old discussions and rivalries. We have even read some rude replies >>> to students whose knowledge was evidently far below the minimum >>> required to perform a meaningful refinement, or question to the >>> list. So maybe it would not be advisable for a very young and >>> untrained student to join our list and ask very basic questions. >>> >>> I think the facebook page will reach to other public that will never >>> come to us on a first basis and probably shouldn?t, but that will >>> eventually be ready for the list after some time. >>> >>> One point in favor of the facebook discussion group or other social >>> media channels is that all of our Universities and Institutes(*see >>> below) are on Facebook/Twitter/RG, etc, and more and more "younger" >>> and not quite colleagues are using them too, for dissemination of >>> careers, teaching programs, events, job advertising, and even >>> knowledge, so denying that Facebook, Twitter, Research Gate, etc. >>> may be of help to disseminate the Rietveld Method in particular and >>> knowledge in general is like denying reality. >>> >>> I?m not going to judge if the for-profit, business oriented attitude >>> of the companies that manage these social networks is favorable for >>> spreading science or not (probably not), but it may be a good idea >>> that we use the networks to allow younger colleagues becoming >>> crystallographers to learn the science from scientists and >>> eventually lead them to the Rietveld List when they have enough knowledge >>> to ask meaningful questions. >>> >>> Actually the IUCr (our IUCr) is in Facebook and I have participated >>> in discussion where it is is looking for ways to spread the >>> knowledge by all possible means, so I bet authorities will salute >>> this move towards modern (not necessarily better, I agree) tools. >>> >>> As much as I have replied to crystallography questions in this list >>> and Research Gate I?ll do the same on Facebook, Twitter or whatever >>> other forum I?m at, and will suggest students seeking for deeper >>> understanding to walk the way by themselves reading books, papers >>> and why not the Rietveld Mailing Archive, and eventually seeking >>> support from well trained scientists in the Rietveld List. And I >>> foresee many links in Facebook to the rietveld_list_archives for >>> everyone to use this accumulated knowledge, while Mark Zuckerberg >>> tries to sell them X-ray instruments, or X-files DVDs or X-plane >>> tickets or whatever the automatic software that drops advertisement in our >>> screen understands of what we talk about... >>> >>> With best regards, >>> >>> Leo >>> >>> * List of important labs and universities I found in Facebook in 1 >>> minute >>> search: >>> >>> https://www.facebook.com/iucr.org?fref=ts >>> >>> https://www.facebook.com/cnrs.fr?fref=ts >>> >>> https://www.facebook.com/pages/Institut-Laue-Langevin-ILL/1484526518 >>> 46298?f >>> ref=ts >>> >>> https://www.facebook.com/pages/DESY/103119693061304?fref=ts >>> >>> https://www.facebook.com/MITnews?fref=ts >>> >>> https://www.facebook.com/imperialcollegelondon?fref=ts >>> >>> need more? >>> >>> -- >>> >>> Enviado desde mi m?vil. >>> Prof. Dr. Leopoldo Suescun >>> Cryssmat-Lab/DETEMA, Facultad de Qu?mica, Universidad de la >>> Rep?blica, Montevideo, Uruguay. >>> >>> El jun 9, 2015 4:15 AM, "Radovan Cerny" <[email protected]> escribi?: >>> >>> Too many channels = crystallographer's death (freely translated from >>> an old proverb "Too many hunters= rabbit's death). >>> >>> Rather to express my opinion that if you have too many options where >>> to look for an info, you spend too much time before you find it. >>> Why the troglodytes should learn Facebook? Why do not the younger >>> and more up-to-date researcher use the email? >>> >>> >>> Radovan Cerny >>> Laboratoire de Cristallographie, DQMP Universit? de Gen?ve 24, quai >>> Ernest-Ansermet >>> CH-1211 Geneva 4, Switzerland >>> Phone : [+[41] 22] 37 964 50, FAX : [+[41] 22] 37 961 08 mailto : >>> [email protected] >>> URL : http://www.unige.ch/sciences/crystal/cerny/rcerny.htm >>> >>> >>> -----Message d'origine----- >>> De : [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] De >>> la part de LUIS MARIA RODRIGUEZ LORENZO Envoy? : mardi 9 juin 2015 >>> 08:15 ? : [email protected] Objet : Re: Powder Diffraction >>> Discussion Group on Facebook >>> >>> >>> >>> hehe, well played Lubo. People can define themselves as they wish, >>> the problem is the impression we produce in others with our >>> self-definitions. >>> still the more channels people have to reach information , the best, >>> and as someone says before, if it does not work it will fade out with no >>> damage. >>> >>> >>> Quoting Lubomir Smrcok <[email protected]>: >>> >>>> Dear Luis, >>>> >>>> I always find weird and sort of funny when someone cannot accept >>>> that some people could call themselves troglodites meaning that >>>> they are not very enthusiastic about ALL what other people call new >>>> and progressive or even an innovation. This is how I understand >>>> Larry's comment. >>>> >>>> Personally, though I am younger than him I do not feel like a >>>> second-rate human being or depleted of any important scientific >>>> information when I completely ignore facebook and its clones. This >>>> way of communication or, better, its information contents, strongly >>>> resembles that described in Brave New World by A.Huxley. Though >>>> published in 1932, it has been somehow ahead of the times. >>>> >>>> A word of warning for facebookers : be careful, this is a book >>>> (check the word with any good on-line service). Fortunately, it is >>>> offered also for Kindle so no worry for being seen with a pretty >>>> thick piece of paper. >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> Lubo >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tue, 9 Jun 2015, LUIS MARIA RODRIGUEZ LORENZO wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Dear all, >>>>> >>>>> Although not an active player on this list, except maybe in my >>>>> early days in late 90,s,(science , took me in a different >>>>> direction) I still keep track of what is happening in "the >>>>> Refinement world" and i would like to add my thoughts on this non >>>>> technical matter. >>>>> The generation of people called millennials and young scientists >>>>> among them, get inform through facebook and similar. That link >>>>> them to several sources of information without attaching them to >>>>> one single source . >>>>> >>>>> A facebook page related and linked to this discussion group could >>>>> be the gate to new researchers (students) to this page and have a >>>>> positive influence on the size of this community and their access >>>>> to the very specific questions and knowledge that are usually >>>>> discussed here. Their alternative can be the use of the potent >>>>> available software to have results without guidance (e.g after , >>>>> no sensible responses have been obtained through linkedyn or >>>>> research gate, to name some, because nobody with the right >>>>> expertise is there). It does not have to be a different or >>>>> parallel discussion group, and it does not imply that you have to >>>>> join or use any new group. it is most likely to have a positive >>>>> effect or maybe just null in the worst scenario. >>>>> >>>>> In a more personal opinion , i always find weird and sort of >>>>> funny, when people, whose work is to develop and spread knowledge, >>>>> is proud to be a "troglodite" and do not dare to experience innovation. >>>>> Facebook does not change the way Science "should" be done but it >>>>> may change the way of communicating . >>>>> >>>>> Please dont take offence for my last comment , that is out of my purpose. >>>>> Best regards >>>>> Luis >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Quoting Reinhard Kleeberg <[email protected]>: >>>>> >>>>>> To be honest, I can't imagine that crystallographic knowledge can >>>>>> be effectively transmitted via facebook. Probably one could safe >>>>>> time by reading some basic textbooks instead of "liking" and "following". >>>>>> The same holds for other "asocial" (Lubo, I like this >>>>>> statement!) networks like researchgate, what also waste the time >>>>>> even of uninvolved people by spamming, just for generating >>>>>> profits by the companies. >>>>>> >>>>>> The central points have already been fixed by Alan: >>>>>> >>>>>> The advantage of the Rietveld mailing list is that contributions >>>>>> aren't anonymous, it is not commercial and no use is made of users' >>>>>> information, publicity is limited, and there is a structured >>>>>> archive of discussion that is open to all, even those who don't have an >>>>>> account. >>>>>> >>>>>> This is like science should be. Alan, thank you very much for all >>>>>> your altruistic efforts with the list! >>>>>> Greetings >>>>>> >>>>>> Reinhard >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Am 08/06/2015 um 14:00 schrieb Davide Levy: >>>>>>> I want say something more about my decision to open the group in FB. >>>>>>> There is many people the use the Rietveld method as a magic black box: >>>>>>> insert the data, read the cif of the phase and obtain the results. >>>>>>> Then they say "twenty-one" and "forty-one" when they see a >>>>>>> symmetry group! >>>>>>> Maybe a POP-group in FB can teach more about crystallography to >>>>>>> a larger group of scientist! >>>>>>> this is my opinion. >>>>>>> Davide >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: [email protected] >>>>>>> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Lubomir Smrcok >>>>>>> Sent: 08 June, 2015 2:49 PM >>>>>>> To: Alan Hewat >>>>>>> Cc: [email protected] >>>>>>> Subject: Re: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Dear Alan, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> There are plenty of people who call usage of so-called social >>>>>>> networks (they are, in fact, very asocial) "a progress". I would >>>>>>> suggest to consider De gustibus non est disputandum, but also >>>>>>> Duo cum faciunt idem, non est idem. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Although I am not member of any of those asocial nets and do not >>>>>>> plan to be, I sometimes think of the end of such services like >>>>>>> Gopher. Maybe we have around a generation, who prefers to share >>>>>>> instead of to search, think & write. What a prefect opportunity >>>>>>> for commercial companies :-) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>> Lubo >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon, 8 Jun 2015, Alan Hewat wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I can understand that people have different ideas about the >>>>>>>> ideal format for discussion, and for some of us email may seem >>>>>>>> a little "old fashioned". I suppose we could also use Twitter >>>>>>>> or any of the other social chattering forums. But multiple >>>>>>>> groups on the same subject disperses the available information, >>>>>>>> and it would be good to have some kind of consensus rather than >>>>>>>> individual initiatives. >>>>>>>> The advantage of the Rietveld mailing list is that >>>>>>>> contributions aren't anonymous, it is not commercial and no use is >>>>>>>> made of users' >>>>>>>> information, publicity is limited, and there is a structured >>>>>>>> archive of discussion that is open to all, even those who don't >>>>>>>> have >>> an account. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I myself simply inherited the list, but think it worth >>>>>>>> maintaining, and would discourage members from posting to >>>>>>>> multiple groups on the same subject. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Alan. (What, me worry ? :-) >>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> On 8 June 2015 at 09:24, davide levy <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Good Morning >>>>>>>> I created the Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook, >>>>>>>> to speak about powder diffraction, Rietveld etc.. open for all >>>>>>>> use powder diffraction. >>>>>>>> https://www.facebook.com/groups/1087352967946225/ >>>>>>>> Davide >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >>>>>>>> Please do NOT attach files to the whole list >>>>>>>> <[email protected]> Send commands to <[email protected]> eg: >>>>>>>> HELP as the subject with no body text The Rietveld_L list >>>>>>>> archive is on http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >>>>>>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> ______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Dr Alan Hewat, NeutronOptics, Grenoble, FRANCE >>>>>>>> <[email protected]> +33.476.98.41.68 >>>>>>>> http://www.NeutronOptics.com/hewat >>>>>>>> ______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> TU Bergakademie Freiberg >>>>>> Dr. R. Kleeberg >>>>>> Mineralogisches Labor >>>>>> Brennhausgasse 14 >>>>>> D-09596 Freiberg >>>>>> >>>>>> Tel. ++49 (0) 3731-39-3244 >>>>>> Fax. ++49 (0) 3731-39-3129 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >>> Please do NOT attach files to the whole list >>> <[email protected]> Send commands to <[email protected]> >>> eg: HELP as the subject with no body text The Rietveld_L list >>> archive is on http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> Dr. Leopoldo Suescun >>> Prof. Agr (Assoc. Prof.) de F?sica Tel: (+598) 29290705/29249859 >>> Cryssmat-Lab./C?tedra de Fisica/DETEMA Fax: (+598) 29241906* >>> Facultad de Quimica, Universidad de la Republica. Montevideo, >>> Uruguay >>> >>> >>> Ahora la cristalograf?a importa m?s (www.iucr.org) Crystallography Matters >>> more. >>> >>> >>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >>> Please do NOT attach files to the whole list >>> <[email protected]> Send commands to <[email protected]> >>> eg: HELP as the subject with no body text The Rietveld_L list >>> archive is on http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >>> >>> >>> > > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = > > > ????????? > ?? > > > ????????chenhh > [email protected] > ??????????2015-06-12 > > > > >
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Please do NOT attach files to the whole list <[email protected]> Send commands to <[email protected]> eg: HELP as the subject with no body text The Rietveld_L list archive is on http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
