Dear Habib, Reinhard is right, and what he explained is exactly what you observed. Now I would add that I may not define your Bruker clean and optimised, because for this kind of samples, wafers and extremely textured thin films, it would be better to have a monochromator in the incident beam and not a Ni filtered (I would more say it is a requirement). It was already showed many times in the past as a monochromator in the incident beam is a necessity for this materials to avoid all the "physical artifacts" created by the strong intensity and not clean Kalpha radiation.
Best regards, Luca <http://www.unitn.it/> Luca Lutterotti Dipartimento di Ingegneria Industriale Università di Trento via Sommarive, 9 - 38123 Trento (Italy) tel. +39 0461 2824-14 (Office), -34 (X-Ray lab)  Maud: http://maud.radiographema.com <http://maud.radiographema/> > On 4 Sep 2023, at 12:20, Habib Boughzala <habib.boughz...@ipein.rnu.tn> wrote: > > Many thanks Reinhard, > > That's exactly what I wanted to say by "I can assure that our Bruker D8 is > clean and optimized!" > Otherwise, in some other cases of well conditioned thin film no similar > phenomenon is observed! > So, yes, it's obviously possible that your point of view is right. > > Regards > Habib > > > ------ Message d'origine ------ > De "Reinhard Kleeberg" <kleeb...@mineral.tu-freiberg.de > <mailto:kleeb...@mineral.tu-freiberg.de>> > À "Habib Boughzala" <boughz...@yahoo.com <mailto:boughz...@yahoo.com>> > Cc rietveld_l@ill.fr <mailto:rietveld_l@ill.fr> > Date 04/09/2023 11:07:50 > Objet Re: Re[2]: [EXT] Re: [External] Re: Step-like basline > >> Dear Habib, >> the phenomenom "satellites or edges" originates from the diffraction >> process. The critical parameters are: >> - spectral pureness of the primary beam (primary beam monochromator, tube >> spectral contamination like W...) >> - the use of K beta absorbtion filter (and its thickness) >> - the energy resolution ("window") of the detector system. >> Even a D8 system may be equipped with different types of detectors, slits >> and energy limits can be set differently for an identical configuration, and >> quite often satellite peaks may appear later in the time of use (aging of >> the tube produces more W L, Fe filters may corrode and get perforated...). >> So it is strictly recommended to check the instrument peridically, by >> measuring a full pattern of a profile standard (LaB6 or Si or similar). >> Greetings >> Reinhard >> >> Zitat von Habib Boughzala <boughz...@yahoo.com <mailto:boughz...@yahoo.com>>: >> >>> Dear all, >>> I would like to send you my witness related to this kind of observation. >>> I can assure that our Bruker D8 is clean and optimized! >>> >>> In many cases of well conditioned thin film (spin coating or controlled >>> diffusion) material this kind of phenomenon is visible around the highest >>> reflection, especially when the preferred orientation is drastically >>> present. >>> >>> So, in my opinion, Reinhard and Alan are right, and what is observed is >>> just like reflections broadening, asymmetry, shifting ...etc ... and can be >>> related to the material behavior. >>> Now, what is the physical (crystallographic!) property responsible of this >>> phenomenon? let's open the floor for a large discussion. >>> >>> >>> Habib >>> >>> >>> ------ Message d'origine ------ >>> De "Alan W Hewat" <alan.he...@neutronoptics.com >>> <mailto:alan.he...@neutronoptics.com>> >>> À "Reinhard Kleeberg" <kleeb...@mineral.tu-freiberg.de >>> <mailto:kleeb...@mineral.tu-freiberg.de>> >>> Cc rietveld_l@ill.fr <mailto:rietveld_l@ill.fr> >>> Date 04/09/2023 09:29:08 >>> Objet Re: [EXT] Re: [External] Re: Step-like basline >>> >>>> Reinhard is right that it is best to improve the instrument to produce >>>> cleaner data. I'm concerned about the advice to model all kinds of >>>> features whose origin is not fully understood, simply to obtain a better >>>> fit. Shay has told us nothing about his instrument or his conditions of >>>> data collection. He asks "Is it a sample preparation problem", to which >>>> the obvious reply is "Do you see this with other samples or different >>>> materials" ? Only he can answer that. If the answer is yes, he might try >>>> modifying his instrument (remove filters etc) to see what effect that has >>>> on the pattern from a simple well characterised material. Again only he >>>> can do that. Data collection is an experimental science, and data >>>> refinement should not be reduced to a "black box" computer program where >>>> extra parameters can be added to reduce the R-factor. >>>> Alan. >>>> >>>> On Mon, 4 Sept 2023 at 08:18, Reinhard Kleeberg >>>> <kleeb...@mineral.tu-freiberg.de <mailto:kleeb...@mineral.tu-freiberg.de>> >>>> wrote: >>>>> Can be modeled in the BGMN peak profile model as well, by modifying >>>>> the *.lam file by a series of additional Lorentzians on the 1/lambda >>>>> scale, see figure. >>>>> The same can be done for other spectral impurities, e.g. W L >>>>> satellites. Also "electronic effects" on the wavelength distribution >>>>> profile like the "edges" from the ROI settings of Si drift detectors >>>>> can be modelled in such a convolution based approach. >>>>> However, better to have a pure/simple wavelength distribution (clear >>>>> alpha1/2 doublet) by a monochromator or high energy resolution >>>>> detector, as any satellites make trouble in trace phase analysis and >>>>> do cause prolonged calculation time in complicated Rietveld refinements. >>>>> >>>>> Reinhard >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Zitat von Matthew Rowles <rowle...@gmail.com <mailto:rowle...@gmail.com>>: >>>>> >>>>>> Topas can model them quite well. The functionality was introduced in >>>>>> version 5. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, 4 Sep 2023, 00:54 Kurt Leinenweber, <ku...@asu.edu >>>>>> <mailto:ku...@asu.edu>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi, Are these things modeled in Rietveld programs, by chance? It seems >>>>>>> like a lot of baggage to put in a refinement but if it makes the results >>>>>>> better… >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> - Kurt >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *From:* rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr <mailto:rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr> >>>>>>> <rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr <mailto:rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr>> *On >>>>>>> Behalf >>>>>>> Of *Thomas Gegan >>>>>>> *Sent:* Sunday, September 3, 2023 9:16 AM >>>>>>> *To:* Bish, David L <b...@indiana.edu <mailto:b...@indiana.edu>>; Shay >>>>>>> Tirosh <stiro...@gmail.com <mailto:stiro...@gmail.com>>; >>>>>>> Fernando Igoa <fer.igoa.1...@gmail.com <mailto:fer.igoa.1...@gmail.com>> >>>>>>> *Cc:* Rietveld List (rietveld_l@ill.fr <mailto:rietveld_l@ill.fr>) >>>>>>> <rietveld_l@ill.fr <mailto:rietveld_l@ill.fr>> >>>>>>> *Subject:* RE: [EXT] Re: [External] Re: Step-like basline >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I agree with a Ni absorption edge, possibly with a Kβ peak around 38° >>>>>>> 2θ. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *Tom Gegan* >>>>>>> Chemist III >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Phone: +1 732 205-5111, Email: tom.ge...@basf.com >>>>>>> <mailto:tom.ge...@basf.com> >>>>>>> Postal Address: BASF Corporation, , 25 Middlesex Essex Turnpike, 08830 >>>>>>> Iselin, United States >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *From:* rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr <mailto:rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr> >>>>>>> <rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr <mailto:rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr>> *On >>>>>>> Behalf >>>>>>> Of *Bish, David L >>>>>>> *Sent:* Sunday, September 3, 2023 7:08 AM >>>>>>> *To:* Shay Tirosh <stiro...@gmail.com <mailto:stiro...@gmail.com>>; >>>>>>> Fernando Igoa < >>>>>>> fer.igoa.1...@gmail.com <mailto:fer.igoa.1...@gmail.com>> >>>>>>> *Cc:* Rietveld List (rietveld_l@ill.fr <mailto:rietveld_l@ill.fr>) >>>>>>> <rietveld_l@ill.fr <mailto:rietveld_l@ill.fr>> >>>>>>> *Subject:* [EXT] Re: [External] Re: Step-like basline >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Some people who received this message don't often get email from >>>>>>> b...@indiana.edu <mailto:b...@indiana.edu>. Learn why this is important >>>>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentification__;!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!fFhSHn4S5iEzkW-O9lvWG-OzoqK_2SKhRniGa71nxuOL3GcxiyD83i2mnNN0Z48HPkn4zjKqH-aqqA$> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hello Shay, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I think it is probably related to "tube tails". You can read about this >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> the literature (e.g., on the BGMN web site) and you can model it in some >>>>>>> Rietveld software such as Topas. You don't normally notice this but it >>>>>>> becomes apparent with higher-intensity peaks. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Dave >>>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *From:* rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr <mailto:rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr> >>>>>>> <rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr <mailto:rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr>> on behalf >>>>>>> of Fernando Igoa <fer.igoa.1...@gmail.com >>>>>>> <mailto:fer.igoa.1...@gmail.com>> >>>>>>> *Sent:* Sunday, September 3, 2023 3:06 AM >>>>>>> *To:* Shay Tirosh <stiro...@gmail.com <mailto:stiro...@gmail.com>> >>>>>>> *Cc:* Rietveld List (rietveld_l@ill.fr <mailto:rietveld_l@ill.fr>) >>>>>>> <rietveld_l@ill.fr <mailto:rietveld_l@ill.fr>> >>>>>>> *Subject:* [External] Re: Step-like basline >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This message was sent from a non-IU address. Please exercise caution >>>>>>> when >>>>>>> clicking links or opening attachments from external sources. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hey Shay, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Are you using a motorized slit during the measurement? These may open up >>>>>>> abruptly to compensate for the angular dependence of the footprint and >>>>>>> thus >>>>>>> generate an abrupt increase in the intensity. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hope it helps :) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sun, Sep 3, 2023, 8:50 AM Shay Tirosh <stiro...@gmail.com >>>>>>> <mailto:stiro...@gmail.com>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Dear Rietvelders >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I am attaching a zoom-in on a diffraction profile. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> My question is what is the origin of the step-like profile next to a >>>>>>> very >>>>>>> large reflection peak? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Is it a sample preparation problem? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Is it part of the baseline? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Shay >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >>>>>>> Please do NOT attach files to the whole list >>>>>>> <alan.he...@neutronoptics.com <mailto:alan.he...@neutronoptics.com> >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Send commands to <lists...@ill.fr <mailto:lists...@ill.fr>> eg: HELP as >>>>>>> the subject with no body >>>>>>> text >>>>>>> The Rietveld_L list archive is on >>>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/rietveld_l@ill.fr/ >>>>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.mail-archive.com/rietveld_l@ill.fr/__;!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!fFhSHn4S5iEzkW-O9lvWG-OzoqK_2SKhRniGa71nxuOL3GcxiyD83i2mnNN0Z48HPkn4zjJTf8rNHg$> >>>>>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >>>>>>> Please do NOT attach files to the whole list >>>>>>> <alan.he...@neutronoptics.com <mailto:alan.he...@neutronoptics.com> >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Send commands to <lists...@ill.fr <mailto:lists...@ill.fr>> eg: HELP as >>>>>>> the subject with no body >>>>>>> text >>>>>>> The Rietveld_L list archive is on >>>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/rietveld_l@ill.fr/ >>>>>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> TU Bergakademie Freiberg >>>>> Dr. R. Kleeberg >>>>> Mineralogisches Labor >>>>> Brennhausgasse 14 >>>>> D-09596 Freiberg >>>>> >>>>> Tel. ++49 (0) 3731-39-3244 >>>>> Fax. ++49 (0) 3731-39-3129 >>>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >>>>> Please do NOT attach files to the whole list >>>>> <alan.he...@neutronoptics.com <mailto:alan.he...@neutronoptics.com>> >>>>> Send commands to <lists...@ill.fr <mailto:lists...@ill.fr>> eg: HELP as >>>>> the subject with no body text >>>>> The Rietveld_L list archive is on >>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/rietveld_l@ill.fr/ >>>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> ______________________________________________ >>>> Dr Alan Hewat, NeutronOptics, Grenoble, FRANCE >>>> <alan.he...@neutronoptics.com <mailto:alan.he...@neutronoptics.com>> >>>> +33.476.98.41.68 >>>> http://www.NeutronOptics.com/hewat <http://www.neutronoptics.com/hewat> >>>> <http://www.neutronoptics.com/hewat> >>>> ______________________________________________ >> >> >> -- TU Bergakademie Freiberg >> Dr. R. Kleeberg >> Mineralogisches Labor >> Brennhausgasse 14 >> D-09596 Freiberg >> >> Tel. ++49 (0) 3731-39-3244 >> Fax. ++49 (0) 3731-39-3129 >> > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > Please do NOT attach files to the whole list <alan.he...@neutronoptics.com > <mailto:alan.he...@neutronoptics.com>> > Send commands to <lists...@ill.fr <mailto:lists...@ill.fr>> eg: HELP as the > subject with no body text > The Rietveld_L list archive is on > http://www.mail-archive.com/rietveld_l@ill.fr/ > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
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