The problem in going to the cloud is latency. You are depending upon the time for an SQL query to be returned to be less than the time that it is needed. Audio returned over an internet link will have an unknown amount of latency, so dropouts in audio would be expected.
If you wanted to put everything on a cloud machine and only stream from the assemblage on the cloud, that is likely to work. Whatever you do, don't count on SQL over internet or actual audio over internet except for the finished product. Ted Schober On 12/21/2016 6:04 PM, [email protected] wrote: > Send Rivendell-dev mailing list submissions to > [email protected] > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://caspian.paravelsystems.com/mailman/listinfo/rivendell-dev > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > [email protected] > > You can reach the person managing the list at > [email protected] > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Rivendell-dev digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Cloud Setup Question? (Joe Thompson) > 2. Re: Cloud Setup Question? (David Klann) > 3. Re: Cloud Setup Question? (Lorne Tyndale) > 4. Re: Cloud Setup Question? (Joe Thompson) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2016 22:03:40 +0000 > From: Joe Thompson <[email protected]> > To: "[email protected]" > <[email protected]> > Subject: [RDD] Cloud Setup Question? > Message-ID: > > <by2pr15mb03603f520f977df1487f892ab2...@by2pr15mb0360.namprd15.prod.outlook.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > I've got an interesting question. Has anybody tried a cloud based Rivendell > server and sql server setup and managed to get it to work. If so what was > your experience with it? What kind of issues have you ran into if any? > > > > The reason why I'm posing the question is I'm working with a non-profit radio > station that has given me virtually no budget for new equipment and all I got > to work with is older equipment. I do have Rivendell currently setup and > running for them. But I feel that If I can move part of the system offsite to > a more reliable cloud based solution they'd be in a better situation for > reliability. > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <http://caspian.paravelsystems.com/pipermail/rivendell-dev/attachments/20161221/a3e3d023/attachment-0001.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2016 16:19:36 -0600 > From: David Klann <[email protected]> > To: Joe Thompson <[email protected]> > Cc: "[email protected]" > <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [RDD] Cloud Setup Question? > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Hi Joe, > > Not in the cloud, but I (and others on this list) have implemented > several components of Rivendell (including the MySQL database server and > RDAirPlay) on local virtual machines. My experience has been quite positive. > > The risk factor with doing it in the cloud (or anywhere off site) is the > reliability of the Internet service between the transmitter and the > cloud provider. There exist several "cloud automation" providers (e.g., > Airtime (https://www.sourcefabric.org/en/airtime/), but I have no direct > experience with any of them either. > > One way to potentially mitigate the reliability risk would be to run the > core audio engine daemon (caed) locally, along with the audio files, and > implement the user interface apps out "in the cloud". But even with that > setup you're still going to need reliable transport between RDAirPlay > and the machine with the "sound card" (analog sound card or LiveWire > interface). > > Might be doable with business-class Internet that includes a service > level agreement (SLA) and penalties to the provider if they fail to meet > the SLA. But that too can get costly... > > Hope this helps! > > ~David Klann > Broadcast Tool & Die > WDRT, Viroqua, WI > > > On 12/21/2016 04:03 PM, Joe Thompson wrote: >> I've got an interesting question. Has anybody tried a cloud based >> Rivendell server and sql server setup and managed to get it to work. If >> so what was your experience with it? What kind of issues have you ran >> into if any? >> >> >> >> The reason why I'm posing the question is I'm working with a non-profit >> radio station that has given me virtually no budget for new equipment >> and all I got to work with is older equipment. I do have Rivendell >> currently setup and running for them. But I feel that If I can move part >> of the system offsite to a more reliable cloud based solution they'd be >> in a better situation for reliability. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rivendell-dev mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://caspian.paravelsystems.com/mailman/listinfo/rivendell-dev >> > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: signature.asc > Type: application/pgp-signature > Size: 195 bytes > Desc: OpenPGP digital signature > URL: > <http://caspian.paravelsystems.com/pipermail/rivendell-dev/attachments/20161221/3c617bc3/attachment-0001.sig> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2016 15:37:19 -0700 > From: "Lorne Tyndale" <[email protected]> > To: "Joe Thompson" <[email protected]>, > "[email protected]" > <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [RDD] Cloud Setup Question? > Message-ID: > > <20161221153719.3b45a8e840b89c853b94d34027fab3e4.958d4b4404....@email06.godaddy.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Joe, > > I'd avoid anything "cloud" based for a number of reasons. > > 1 - Rivendell (or any playout system for that matter) should never be on > the open internet. It really should be on a private LAN (or at least a > private VLAN). For reasons of security and reliability it is a bad idea > to put it online. Aside from security you also should consider - what > happens if / when your internet connection goes down or slows down (or > the connection to the "cloud" server slows down)? > > 2 - The best storage option for your audio is uncompressed linear PCM > format. This works well, but takes a lot more bandwidth then you're > likely to get on an internet-to-cloud server type of setup > > 3 - Rivendell works best when it has a fast connection to its SQL server > and /var/snd share, preferably on a local network. Considering the > amount that you'd end up paying for an internet connection with the > needed speed and reliability plus the cost of a cloud-server you'd > likely be better off purchasing some new or gently-used hardware > > Fortunately it is possible to get Rivendell to run on relatively > inexpensive hardware and / or older hardware. While not ideal, if there > are budget issues with a non-profit it is still possible to set up a > fairly robust system using older re-purposed hardware. I quite often > see 5 year old or less used and functional systems for sale at very > reasonable prices (people and businesses who have upgraded for the sake > of upgrading). Setting up 2 Rivendell servers that mirror each other > (and are "hot-swappable - you can set this up with aman) along with > however many workstations you might need for playout / production / etc > is possible to do on a limited budget. Even large hard drives are cheap > these days. > > I'd explain that this is going to become the main playout system for the > station, and thus it is just as important as the rest of the air chain > (antenna / transmitter / processor / STL / EAS box / etc). While it > does not need to be the most expensive item in the audio chain, it does > deserve some budget. > > > > > >> >> I've got an interesting question. Has anybody tried a cloud based Rivendell >> server and sql server setup and managed to get it to work. If so what was >> your experience with it? What kind of issues have you ran into if any? >> >> >> >> The reason why I'm posing the question is I'm working with a non-profit >> radio station that has given me virtually no budget for new equipment and >> all I got to work with is older equipment. I do have Rivendell currently >> setup and running for them. But I feel that If I can move part of the system >> offsite to a more reliable cloud based solution they'd be in a better >> situation for reliability.<hr>_______________________________________________ >> Rivendell-dev mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://caspian.paravelsystems.com/mailman/listinfo/rivendell-dev > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2016 23:04:02 +0000 > From: Joe Thompson <[email protected]> > To: "[email protected]" > <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [RDD] Cloud Setup Question? > Message-ID: > > <by2pr15mb0360fb1a4ea777ea9f15e09fb2...@by2pr15mb0360.namprd15.prod.outlook.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Internet is going to play a big part of this anyway. They are moving their > transmitter offsite and instead of forking the money to setup a uhf or > microwave connection they are using barix boxes for their STL. So if the > internet goes out at either location they're down anyway. I tried talking > them away from doing that. But that's what they set their eyes on. > > > I'm not concerned with the security aspect as I have the technical no how to > secure cloud servers and get a p2p vpn setup. > > > Now when talking money. Let me tell you what I'm dealing with. When I came on > they had a another automation system. The automation was BSI wavestation. I > had it up and working for them etc. Problem is they didn't want to spend the > extra I believe at the time was around $1500 for the traffic and log creation > software needed to make it run as it should. Because without it somebody > would of had to have gone in everyday and manually create a log and they > didn't want that. So I gave them their options spend the $1500 or we go with > Rivendell. The machines I got it setup up on are at least 8 to 10 years old. > They where old Windows Vista machines. The only half way decent machine is > the server with is a HP G6 line that was given to them. However, it needs SAS > drives to run as it should. They won't fork out the money that I need to make > it right. > > > The problem I'm dealing with now is a corrupt database issue. It's all > related to numerous power outages and no UPS for the server like I > recommended it be put on. That's why I'm looking at the cloud as a possible > solution. > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Lorne Tyndale <[email protected]> > Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2016 4:37 PM > To: Joe Thompson; [email protected] > Subject: RE: [RDD] Cloud Setup Question? > > Joe, > > I'd avoid anything "cloud" based for a number of reasons. > > 1 - Rivendell (or any playout system for that matter) should never be on > the open internet. It really should be on a private LAN (or at least a > private VLAN). For reasons of security and reliability it is a bad idea > to put it online. Aside from security you also should consider - what > happens if / when your internet connection goes down or slows down (or > the connection to the "cloud" server slows down)? > > 2 - The best storage option for your audio is uncompressed linear PCM > format. This works well, but takes a lot more bandwidth then you're > likely to get on an internet-to-cloud server type of setup > > 3 - Rivendell works best when it has a fast connection to its SQL server > and /var/snd share, preferably on a local network. Considering the > amount that you'd end up paying for an internet connection with the > needed speed and reliability plus the cost of a cloud-server you'd > likely be better off purchasing some new or gently-used hardware > > Fortunately it is possible to get Rivendell to run on relatively > inexpensive hardware and / or older hardware. While not ideal, if there > are budget issues with a non-profit it is still possible to set up a > fairly robust system using older re-purposed hardware. I quite often > see 5 year old or less used and functional systems for sale at very > reasonable prices (people and businesses who have upgraded for the sake > of upgrading). Setting up 2 Rivendell servers that mirror each other > (and are "hot-swappable - you can set this up with aman) along with > however many workstations you might need for playout / production / etc > is possible to do on a limited budget. Even large hard drives are cheap > these days. > > I'd explain that this is going to become the main playout system for the > station, and thus it is just as important as the rest of the air chain > (antenna / transmitter / processor / STL / EAS box / etc). While it > does not need to be the most expensive item in the audio chain, it does > deserve some budget. > > > > > >> >> I've got an interesting question. Has anybody tried a cloud based Rivendell >> server and sql server setup and managed to get it to work. If so what was >> your experience with it? What kind of issues have you ran into if any? >> >> >> >> The reason why I'm posing the question is I'm working with a non-profit >> radio station that has given me virtually no budget for new equipment and >> all I got to work with is older equipment. I do have Rivendell currently >> setup and running for them. But I feel that If I can move part of the system >> offsite to a more reliable cloud based solution they'd be in a better >> situation for reliability.<hr>_______________________________________________ >> Rivendell-dev mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://caspian.paravelsystems.com/mailman/listinfo/rivendell-dev > Rivendell-dev Info Page - Paravel > Systems<http://caspian.paravelsystems.com/mailman/listinfo/rivendell-dev> > caspian.paravelsystems.com > This is for users of the Rivendell Radio Automation System. It's a place to > get help as well as discuss new features. To see the collection of prior > postings to the ... > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <http://caspian.paravelsystems.com/pipermail/rivendell-dev/attachments/20161221/0d6e4295/attachment.html> > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Rivendell-dev mailing list > [email protected] > http://caspian.paravelsystems.com/mailman/listinfo/rivendell-dev > > > End of Rivendell-dev Digest, Vol 44, Issue 27 > *********************************************
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