I think that in large scale military systems that Java is only 1,5 approved, but I need to recheck that. If so, this is becoming the next new large customer, in addition to financial systems, I think.
Sent from my iPhone Michael McGrady Principal investigator AF081_028 SBIR Chief Architect Topia Technology, Inc Work 1.253.572.9712 Cel 1.253.720.3365 On Nov 30, 2010, at 3:59 AM, Patricia Shanahan <p...@acm.org> wrote: > On 11/30/2010 1:43 AM, Peter Firmstone wrote: >> Patricia Shanahan wrote: >>> Tom Hobbs wrote: >>>> Yes, you're right. >>>> >>>> I knew about the non-atomicity of ++, my concern was a call to reset >>>> creeping in between the two parts of that operation. >>> >>> That is a very good point. >>> >>> Leaving reset unsynchronized, even with volatile, would lead to >>> results that would not be possible with full synchronization. Suppose >>> thread A is going to do a reset, and thread B is going to do an >>> increment, and everybody agrees the count is currently 10. > .... >> Ah yes, correct, my mistake, easy to stuff up isn't it? ;) >> >> In essence I agree, unfortunately we don't know when we need the >> performance, because we can't test scalability. I've only got 4 threads! > > I've only got 8 threads on my largest system. > > I am very, very strongly opposed to attempting performance tuning without > measurement. I've seen it tried many times over several decades, and it is > always a disaster. I've compared e.g. estimates of where bottlenecks will be > in an operating system prepared by the OS developers to actual measurements, > and I've yet to see the developers get it right. That includes my own efforts > at guessing bottlenecks, before I learned that it is futile. > > Without measurement, you get either get focused effort in entirely the wrong > places or diffuse effort spread over the whole system. What is really needed > is focused effort on a few real bottlenecks that will go way beyond any set > of rules that could reasonably be applied throughout the system. > > I believe the solution is to establish a working relationship with users of > River who have larger systems. They have a vested interest in helping us make > it more scalable. > >> Here are some simple tips I've found useful: > > Have you measured the effectiveness of these tips on real world scalability? > What sort of gain do you see? > > There may also be opportunities in the area of data structure and algorithm > scalability. For example, TaskManager uses an ArrayList to represent > something that is basically a FIFO with some reordering. That is a good idea > if, and only if, the queue lengths are always very short even on large > systems. However, I have no idea whether TaskManager queue lengths tend to > increase on large systems or not. > >> 1. If all mutators are atomic and don't depend on previous state, a >> volatile reference or field may be sufficient, but now we have >> concurrency utilities, why not use an atomic reference or field >> instead? Then if we find we later need a method based on previous >> state, it's easily proven correct. > > Do we have the concurrency utilities? The java.util.concurrent packages are > all "Since 1.5", and some of their classes are "Since 1.6". We can only use > them if we are abandoning any chance of River running with a 1.4 rt.jar. > > To my mind, the advances in java.util and its sub-packages are a really > strong motivation for getting to 1.5 or, better, 1.6 ASAP. > > Currently, a quick grep indicates java.util.concurrent is only used in > ./qa/src/com/sun/jini/qa/harness/HeartOfTheMachine.java, which is part of the > QA infrastructure, not the production system. > > ... > >> Have you got any examples of a formal proof of correctness? Just out of >> curiosity? > > Unfortunately, the proofs of correctness I've written that related to > concurrency were based on confidential data and written on the job when I was > working as a performance architect for Cray Research and Sun Microsystems. > > I do have some coursework proofs from the UCSD Design of Algorithms graduate > course. I'll dig out an example to send to you directly. > > Proof of correctness of large systems is a research topic. I'm talking about > looking very narrowly at a class that has been shown to be > performance-critical and is being subjected to special performance tuning > that uses risky techniques such as volatile. > > Patricia >
