Hi Everyone, For the WIFI stuff, please count me in. I live in Sparks off Los Altos and Vista Heights and up the Spandrell Circle.
Johnny Lau, Customer Relationship Manager PC-Doctor, Inc. 9805 Double R Blvd. Suite 301 Reno, Nevada 89521 USA Tel: 775-336-4021 Fax: 775-336-4099 [EMAIL PROTECTED] CONFIDENTIALITY The information contained in this message is confidential, and may be subject to legal privilege. It is intended to be read only by the individual or entity to whom it is addressed or by an authorized designee. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, be aware that distribution of this message in any form is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please immediately notify the sender and destroy any copy of this message. -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2004 12:00 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RLUG Digest, Vol 3, Issue 16 Send RLUG mailing list submissions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.rlug.org/mailman/listinfo/rlug or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can reach the person managing the list at [EMAIL PROTECTED] When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of RLUG digest..." Today's Topics: 1. State of Reno/Tahoe Technology market (Christopher Baus) 2. Wireless Meshing in Reno/Sparks (Ben Efros) 3. Re: Wireless Meshing in Reno/Sparks (Christopher Baus) 4. RE: State of Reno/Tahoe Technology market (Bill) 5. Re: Wireless Meshing in Reno/Sparks (Ben Efros) 6. RE: Wireless Meshing in Reno/Sparks (Chris Kissinger) 7. Re: Wireless Meshing in Reno/Sparks (Ben Efros) 8. Re: Wireless Meshing in Reno/Sparks (Christopher Baus) 9. RE: State of Reno/Tahoe Technology market (Christopher Baus) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 20:34:39 -0700 (PDT) From: "Christopher Baus" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [RLUG] State of Reno/Tahoe Technology market To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 I thought I would start some dialog here. I was just curious what you all think about the current state of the technology sector in the Reno/Tahoe area. I know there was a lot of talk about technology start-ups and incubators a few years ago, but that seems to have died down, as the boom went bust. My employer was one of the few customers that actually rented space out at Redundant, which was supposed to anchor the Reno Tech Center. We thought it might be a risk to setup there, and it turned out our instincts were right. Hostrack.net looks far more in line with our market, although I haven't seen their facility yet. My feeling is that while there is a growing community of techies in the area (I myself have been in Tahoe for over 5 years), the investors way over estimated the market. At the same time, I'm sure there are a lot of folks like me who work on software projects in their basements who aren't ready for outside investments. The question is what resources are available to us small time developers? It would be nice if there was a network of like-minded individuals. Maybe there is and I just don't know about it. Thoughts? -- Christopher Baus http://www.baus.net/ Tahoe, Wine, and Linux. ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 23:16:15 -0700 From: "Ben Efros" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [RLUG] Wireless Meshing in Reno/Sparks To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I've had a growing interest in setting up a 802.11a/b/g mesh network in Reno/Sparks. Providing a fully dynamically routed network where people and businesses can communicate without having internet access. (Of course, there would be Internet access at multiple gateway points.) The goal: Covering a large area of Reno with wireless signals and secure network (and Internet) access. Because NAT isn't feasible for all Internet services, I'd like to fully support ipv6 routing on the network in addition to SNAT'ing to ipv4 internet addresses in certain situations. Is anyone else interested in this project and would like to work with me to setup a test network? My location is in Sparks (GPS Info approx at 39 33.558N 119 44.1700 W). ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 23:53:29 -0700 (PDT) From: "Christopher Baus" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [RLUG] Wireless Meshing in Reno/Sparks To: "Ben Efros" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 > The goal: Covering a large area of Reno with wireless signals and > secure network (and Internet) access. Because NAT isn't feasible for > all Internet services, I'd like to fully support ipv6 routing on the > network in addition to SNAT'ing to ipv4 internet > addresses in certain situations. > Out of curiosity what services is NAT not feasible for? The only thing I can think of is running p2p servers or such. ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 07:23:45 -0700 From: "Bill" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [RLUG] State of Reno/Tahoe Technology market To: "Christopher Baus" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" There are a variety of government agencies that can help startups. Is the issue, the lack of a strong technology education institutions? I notice that, for instance, it is next to impossible to get Linux training in Western Nevada. All the best. Bill Cadwallader, A.I.C.P. Planning Director/Chief Information Officer Western Nevada Development District 3208 Goni Road Suite 183 Carson City NV 89706-7925 775 883 7333 (p) 775 883 0722 (f) [EMAIL PROTECTED] 39 11' 20" N 119 44' 51" W -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Christopher Baus Sent: Monday, June 28, 2004 8:35 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [RLUG] State of Reno/Tahoe Technology market I thought I would start some dialog here. I was just curious what you all think about the current state of the technology sector in the Reno/Tahoe area. I know there was a lot of talk about technology start-ups and incubators a few years ago, but that seems to have died down, as the boom went bust. My employer was one of the few customers that actually rented space out at Redundant, which was supposed to anchor the Reno Tech Center. We thought it might be a risk to setup there, and it turned out our instincts were right. Hostrack.net looks far more in line with our market, although I haven't seen their facility yet. My feeling is that while there is a growing community of techies in the area (I myself have been in Tahoe for over 5 years), the investors way over estimated the market. At the same time, I'm sure there are a lot of folks like me who work on software projects in their basements who aren't ready for outside investments. The question is what resources are available to us small time developers? It would be nice if there was a network of like-minded individuals. Maybe there is and I just don't know about it. Thoughts? -- Christopher Baus http://www.baus.net/ Tahoe, Wine, and Linux. _______________________________________________ RLUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.rlug.org/mailman/listinfo/rlug --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.698 / Virus Database: 455 - Release Date: 6/2/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.698 / Virus Database: 455 - Release Date: 6/2/2004 ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 08:16:30 -0700 From: "Ben Efros" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [RLUG] Wireless Meshing in Reno/Sparks To: "Christopher Baus" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Warning: These are all simple answers to a relatively complex issue. The quickest answer is: Server services are not available behind a NAT. Yes, P2P applications would have difficulty behind NAT, but many are designed with this in mind and have alternate means to work from behind "firewalls" or NAT devices. -- Generally acting as a client, NAT will run "out of the box" but for many services that require two-way communication outside of a client-side established TCP connection NAT is not a possible solution. Microsoft tried to improve NAT by creating UPNP port mappings which are basically. The short answer is server services are not possible from behind NAT. If you have two nodes both behind a NAT, establishing a two-way communication between them can be difficult or impossible without adding UPNP support or manually mapping ports. In the sense of a decentralized wireless mesh, ip portability is important to roaming and routing. Luckily most protocols designed in the past 8 years have had NAT in mind and are designed to be as "firewall friendly" as possible. Some services, especially connection-less ones, NAT can be a pain in the ass. NAT was never designed to be a part of ipv4 when the protocol was originally drafted. NAT is more of a carefully designed hack to allow node(s) to masquerade behind one true ip address. Of course there are wonderful benefits to NAT in other ways. The key to understanding NAT is an understanding of IP. If you want to figure out this issue more, read up on TCP session handshaking, UDP troubles when multiple machines are masqueraded behind one ipv4 ip, etc. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Baus" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Ben Efros" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, June 28, 2004 11:53 PM Subject: Re: [RLUG] Wireless Meshing in Reno/Sparks > > The goal: Covering a large area of Reno with wireless signals and > > secure network (and Internet) access. Because NAT isn't feasible for > > all Internet services, I'd like to fully support ipv6 routing on the > > network in addition to SNAT'ing to ipv4 internet > > addresses in certain situations. > > > Out of curiosity what services is NAT not feasible for? The only > thing I can think of is running p2p servers or such. > ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 08:17:12 -0700 From: "Chris Kissinger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [RLUG] Wireless Meshing in Reno/Sparks To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Check out www.firetide.com they make some great backend mesh routers. Chris -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ben Efros Sent: Monday, June 28, 2004 11:16 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [RLUG] Wireless Meshing in Reno/Sparks I've had a growing interest in setting up a 802.11a/b/g mesh network in Reno/Sparks. Providing a fully dynamically routed network where people and businesses can communicate without having internet access. (Of course, there would be Internet access at multiple gateway points.) The goal: Covering a large area of Reno with wireless signals and secure network (and Internet) access. Because NAT isn't feasible for all Internet services, I'd like to fully support ipv6 routing on the network in addition to SNAT'ing to ipv4 internet addresses in certain situations. Is anyone else interested in this project and would like to work with me to setup a test network? My location is in Sparks (GPS Info approx at 39 33.558N 119 44.1700 W). ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 08:35:40 -0700 From: "Ben Efros" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [RLUG] Wireless Meshing in Reno/Sparks To: "Christopher Baus" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Out of curiosity what services is NAT not feasible for? The only > > thing I > > can think of is running p2p servers or such. One example that comes to mind immediately is FTP. FTP fails to work properly on true NAT devices. As a solution to this problem, many NAT developers have found themselves having to write "helper" modules to handle various protocols. Now, because of helper modules that alter data in transit, NAT is generally able to handle FTP reliably. But unfortunately you cannot design a helper module for every protocol ever developed that would need such a thing. ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 08:55:10 -0700 (PDT) From: "Christopher Baus" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [RLUG] Wireless Meshing in Reno/Sparks To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 > The quickest answer is: Server services are not available behind a > NAT. Yes, P2P applications would have difficulty behind NAT, but many > are designed with this in mind and have alternate means to work from > behind "firewalls" or NAT devices. Indeed. The typical solution is to have a centralized box to route traffic through. Both end points connect to the box as clients and it routes traffic between them. Skype http://www.skype.com/ is one of the more interesting solutions. I've read their technical information a couple times, and it sounds like they used those unfortunate enough to connect to their network in front of a firewall as call routers. I suspect they assume that there will be enough such users that they will have a widely distributed network. > > NAT was never designed to be a part of ipv4 when the protocol was originally > drafted. NAT is more of a carefully designed hack to allow node(s) to masquerade behind one true ip address. Of course there are wonderful benefits to NAT in other ways. Ahh yes like its firewalling effect? I guess I didn't understand your goal. To me IPv4 NAT is fine for most clients, although I will admit I've never set up a wireless network big enough to require routing. One subnet connected to the wire is all I've needed. I guess I've never thought of wireless as a content distribution mechanism -- mostly just for content consumption networks. As soon as you want to serve content to the internet the NAT problem comes back anyway. ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 09:17:49 -0700 (PDT) From: "Christopher Baus" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [RLUG] State of Reno/Tahoe Technology market To: "Bill" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 > There are a variety of government agencies that can help startups. Is > the There does seem to be a lot interest in getting a technology market started in Nevada, it just seems slow in happening. The truth of the matter is, for those of us interested in starting our own ventures, there just isn't the networks available like in the Valley, and I find myself going down the Bay Area just for that reason. I can meet more like minding people in a day working at the Canvas coffee shop, than I could in a year in Reno. Although probably nothing is like the Valley. There is just a ground swell of people that are smarter, younger, and hungrier than the rest of us. > issue, the lack of a strong technology education institutions? I > notice that, for instance, it is next to impossible to get Linux > training in Western Nevada. Do you think there is a demand for such a service? I think government is the perfect Linux user. I went to a technology conference in Europe this spring. There government is the biggest IT driver. You wouldn't believe the interest in Linux. It is for real. Although it seems somewhat driven out of an anti-US business stance. And these are the same people that went for OS/2, so I'm not sure what that means. ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ RLUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.rlug.org/mailman/listinfo/rlug End of RLUG Digest, Vol 3, Issue 16 *********************************** _______________________________________________ RLUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.rlug.org/mailman/listinfo/rlug
