R: (ROSE) data modeling

[Marco Valerio Way]

Er-win 4.0 was annunced long time ago, I think this is a signal that CA isn't concentrated on Data-Modeling. Now they are trying to insert in Er-Win some functionality of Cayenne product (the most important is the separation between logical and physical model, now possible through syncronization). -----Messaggio originale----- Da: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Per conto di Walter Howard Inviato: martedì 13 marzo 2001 15.18 A: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Oggetto: RE: (ROSE) data modeling >>> "Louis F. Springer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 03/12/01 09:05PM >>> Although your comments with respect to the specific alleged shortcoming of Rose may be correct, the assertion that Rose is a relatively immature data modeling product is undoubtedly correct. On the other side of the argument, I would state that the best tool for data modeling that I know about of, ERwin,  was purchased by a company that has many other interests besides database design or data modeling.  In addition, there are other similar tools that are probably as efficient as ERwin at the design and implementation of databases. However, that is basically the limit of their capabilities. <Walter> ERwin 4.0 just came out and my copy is "in the mail".  I'm anxiously waiting to see all of the cool new functionality.  Is there a problem with Computer Associates?  One could say the same thing about Rational.  Purify, Clearquest, Clearcase, Rose, etc.  The data modeler addin was just an afterthought of the Rose product. </Walter> As the value of pure entity relation modeling (ERD) becomes more and more deprecated verses more modern tools like UML, the value proposition of pure data modeling tools will become less and less. <Walter> This is an opinion.  I personally see more people recognizing the value of pure data modeling whether using UML, IDEF, or structured notation.   </Walter> The choice of Rose or some UML modeling tool verses the choice of a tool better suited purely to data modeling and database design must be based upon the context and your strategy going forward. The ability to quickly and efficiently design and implement databases is at this point in time definitely an area that needs significant improvement in Rose. -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Maksimchuk, Robert Sent: Monday, March 12, 2001 12:09 PM To: eoin_gardiner; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: (ROSE) data modeling Your statement about indexes is incorrect. You can automatically create indexes on FKs.  This option is offered when doing a Transformation to Data Model. -----Original Message----- From: eoin_gardiner [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2001 11:29 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: (ROSE) data modeling The Rose 2001 data modeling tool is still immature. In deciding whether to use it or another tool, you might want to consider some of the Rose shortfalls, such as the fact that you cannot automatically create indexes on foreign keys, and you can not specify the storage parameters you want for each generated table. ----- Original Message ----- From: Gornik, Davor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 3:27 PM Subject: RE: (ROSE) data modeling > > Jie, > > here are some differences to think about: > > - Rose is one tool to cover all of your modeling needs from business > modeling (I would not like to design a database without any knowledge of the > business reasons for it), application, and database modeling. > > - Rose has existing integration not only with databases, but also with > requirements management tools, test tools, configuration and change request > management, etc. > > - Rose is based on the UML data modeling profile for the data modeling part > of the tool. It is richer than any ER notation, because it offers graphical > modeling for schemas and databases, as well as tables, relationships, stored > procedures, etc. > > - Rose is able to use real logical model, which is information dependent but > technology independent. The tracing between the logical(we call it object) > model and the physical model is biderectional and completely flexible, as it > traces any change on one of this two models. > > This is just something for the beginning. If you need more information let > me know. > Do not forget to visit our webpage: www.rational.com . You will also find > Rose available for download there. > > Regards, > > > Davor Gornik > Marketing Engineer Rose Business Unit > Rational Software > Phone: +1-425-497-4091 > Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Rational User Conference 2001 > July 22 - 26,  2001 * Denver, CO, USA > http://www.rational.com/ruc > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 12:00 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: (ROSE) data modeling > > > > i use erwin and erstudio to do database design and modeling. i just wonder > what is the difference between these tools and data modeling functionality > with rose 2001. which one is more powerful? > > thank > jie > > > > ************************************************************************ > * Rose Forum is a public venue for ideas and discussions. > * For technical support, visit http://www.rational.com/support > * > * Admin.Subscription Requests: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > * Archive of messages: > http://www.rational.com/products/rose/usergroups/rose_forum.jtmpl > * Other Requests: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > * > * To unsubscribe from the list, please send email > * > * To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > * Subject:<BLANK> > * Body: unsubscribe rose_forum > * > ************************************************************************* > ************************************************************************ > * Rose Forum is a public venue for ideas and discussions. > * For technical support, visit http://www.rational.com/support > * > * Admin.Subscription Requests: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > * Archive of messages: http://www.rational.com/products/rose/usergroups/rose_forum.jtmpl > * Other Requests: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > * > * To unsubscribe from the list, please send email > * > * To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > * Subject:<BLANK> > * Body: unsubscribe rose_forum > * > ************************************************************************* > ************************************************************************ * Rose Forum is a public venue for ideas and discussions. * For technical support, visit http://www.rational.com/support * * Admin.Subscription Requests: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Archive of messages: http://www.rational.com/products/rose/usergroups/rose_forum.jtmpl * Other Requests: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To unsubscribe from the list, please send email * * To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Subject:<BLANK> * Body: unsubscribe rose_forum * ************************************************************************* ************************************************************************ * Rose Forum is a public venue for ideas and discussions. * For technical support, visit http://www.rational.com/support * * Admin.Subscription Requests: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Archive of messages: http://www.rational.com/products/rose/usergroups/rose_forum.jtmpl * Other Requests: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To unsubscribe from the list, please send email * * To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Subject:<BLANK> * Body: unsubscribe rose_forum * ************************************************************************* ************************************************************************ * Rose Forum is a public venue for ideas and discussions. * For technical support, visit http://www.rational.com/support * * Admin.Subscription Requests: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Archive of messages: http://www.rational.com/products/rose/usergroups/rose_forum.jtmpl * Other Requests: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To unsubscribe from the list, please send email * * To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Subject:<BLANK> * Body: unsubscribe rose_forum * *************************************************************************