James,
You're blurring the lines between Design & Implementation (Code), which are
just 2 steps of the project life cycle. One of the main differences here is
the size and scale of the projects, as well as the longevity. (RUP v. XP).
Code is not design. Code is simply an implementation of a design at some
point-in-time, factoring in certain language (Implementation) constructs
(limits).
>The main repository for the design should be code.
I disagree. Designs can and often do, out-live implementations. Take the
"Design Patterns" Book (Gamma, et al). Most of these designs can be
implemented using various languages that support OO; Not just Java, but C++,
Lisp, etc. These are TRUE DESIGNS, not just an implementation of a Design.
Today we see a migration of many languages COBOL, Pascal, PL1, C, C++ to
Java, C# just to name a few. The business rules and frameworks have changed
some, however, the implementations have changed more. (Again there are
other factors here, and nothing is absolute). Again, this depends on the
kind of projects you've worked on.... These projects, that I'm speaking of,
are large scale, highly integrated multi-platform, multi-language projects.
Not necessarily the quick-and-dirty......
>By having the Code as the repository means the Design and Code are never
out
>of step.
That's true, and very easy-way out. By keeping them separate, or having a
conscious steps between them using 2-way tools also allows for better
validation. Did the implementation truly reflect the design to meet the
requirements?
Eric
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Shields James
Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 3:06 AM
To: 'Lars Hauschultz'; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: (ROSE) RE: Code is not design!
Lars
I can see that you may think that it is Ready - Fire - Aim.
But it actually more like: Ready - Aim - Fire - Ready - Aim - Fire - Ready -
Aim - Fire - Ready - Aim - Fire ...
The users on see the last, i.e. the deployed, Fire.
I'm not saying DON'T do Design.
Design is important because it is more abstract than Code.
And you still have to do Architecture (higher level Design).
What I AM saying is that the main repository for the Design should be the
Code.
(The other elements of the repository include Diagrams, (JavaDoc) Comments
in the Code.)
Honestly, speak to the guys at TogetherSoft.
Get a demo on your own Code; get a demo on creating a 'Design', then
fleshing it out with implementation, i.e. 'Code' (it's actually one and the
same thing).
Hope I have expressed myself clearly.
James
-----Original Message-----
From: Lars Hauschultz [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 9:46 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: (ROSE) RE: Code is not design!
Hi James,
somewhere I read that RUP is following the strategy "Ready - Aim - Fire" and
that XP is "Ready - Fire - Aim". Your approach seems to resemble the latter.
At least you risc ending up with code, which the programmers like, but does
not do the job it was intended for.
Lars
-----Original Message-----
From: Shields James [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: 6. april 2001 09:29
To: 'Aker, Eric'; 'Patrick Adewunmi'; 'Michael Hill'; Moin Ahmad
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: (ROSE) RE: Code is not design!
Eric
One of the *good* things about Together is that the Code IS the Design.
As you move from Design to Code, all you are doing is fleshing out Design
with implementation details.
The Diagrams are updated automatically as the Code changes; as the Diagrams
change content (not presentation) the Code changes.
You do not need worry so much about reviews that make sure the Code has
followed the Design, because they are the same thing.
Sure, if the Code changes in maintenance it may change what you INTENDED
when you had your Design Hat on.
But you use the tool to View these changes the Code made to the Design.
You are then in a position to judge whether or not the Code is correct or
not.
If it is not correct, you point out the differences and ask the Programmers
to make the necessary changes.
You would probably TELL them to make the changes because you, as a Designer,
are superior. ;)
Another point is that a lot of your Design documentation is captured in the
Code (in JavaDoc).
This is probably the best way of ensuring that the Design documentation is
kept up to date.
But, hey, don't take my word for it. Speak to the guys at TogetherSoft.
James
PS Have you told your bosses that you hours moving little boxes and lines
around to make them look pretty? I'm sure that will please them. ;)
PPS Please don't take offence at any of my sarcasm.
-----Original Message-----
From: Aker, Eric [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 7:13 PM
To: Shields James; 'Patrick Adewunmi'; 'Michael Hill'; Moin Ahmad
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Code is not design!
Let me see if I understand correctly.
I spend a few weeks creating a design and documenting my intentions
as a designer. I get some code from that design. Then someone makes
some changes to that code. My design, my BEUTIFUL design, where I have
documented what I intend the system to do, is changed? I would be very
upset.
So, some new guy on the project makes a change to the code and all of my
class diagrams that I have spent time laying out, making pretty for
a design review, are changed? This does not sound like a good idea to me.
No, not good! As the DESIGNER, I am superior. I do not want coders making
changes to my lovely design. Sounds like a stupid idea to make the code
equal to the design.
After the coders have done their work it would be most interesting to
verify if they followed my design. Reverse engineer it, then run it through
the model integrator to get a report on the differences. That would be good,
then I could have a model as designed and as built. My father is a carpenter
and he builds houses. When he makes changes to the blueprints he notes that
and when the house is finished a fresh set of drawings is made "as built".
The architect then signs off on the "as built" indicating that nothing
illegal was done.
Eric
-----Original Message-----
From: Shields James [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 12:27 AM
To: 'Patrick Adewunmi'; 'Michael Hill'; Moin Ahmad
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: (ROSE) interaction diagrams
I'm not trying to be subversive here, but are you all aware that Together
keeps code in step with all UML diagrams?
www.togethersoft.com
James
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 7:30 PM
> To: 'Michael Hill'; Moin Ahmad
> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: (ROSE) interaction diagrams
>
> I do not believe that as well that Rose is capable of generating codes
> from interaction diagrams - that will be a very useful functionality.
>
> Cheers.
>
> Patrick
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Hill [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 10:33 AM
> To: Patrick Adewunmi; Moin Ahmad
> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: (ROSE) interaction diagrams
>
> << File: ATT00000.txt; charset = utf-8 >>
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