> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> [snip] I think the UML authors did us a real disservice when they
> downplayed the importance of object diagrams.
The UML includes tools that anticipate the lifecycle, but it is still
strongly influenced by a "new project bias". Most of us are. Object
diagrams are not on the critical path from natural language to class
diagrams, at least not obviously.
The UML certainly should use the experience of its practitioners. How
do we get these messages to the standards committees?
-Eric
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> I see your point about Rose. I do use the "link" element on the
> collaboration diagram to show association instances.
>
> And while I do use the collaboration diagram as an object diagram, I
> do wish Rose would provide real support for the object diagram. Just
> like I wish they'd provide real support for marking a set of XOR
> relationships, ternary associations, and other important stuff in the
> UML that they don't support. And the thing about not supporting
> object diagrams goes back to what I said earlier (which is my real
> gripe): I think the UML authors did us a real disservice when they
> downplayed the importance of object diagrams.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Styve, Arne [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 6:19 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: (ROSE) instance diagrams
>
> Hi again,
>
> I an see your point, and I do agree that for some aspects of
> the system (and usually during analysis) the need of object
> diagrams are present.
>
> However, I still claim thet Rose does not support Object
> Diagrams. The collaboration diagram is a very poor
> substitute. How to you show associations in a colaboration
> diagram ? The "Link"-element available on the tool-pallett
> is not very good. What have you used ?
>
> Besides, here is what the UML-spec says regarding using
> colaboration diagrams for mobject diagrams:
>
> --- quote chapter 3.38.4 ---
>
>
> Objects may be shown on class diagrams. The elements on
> collaboration diagrams are not objects, because they
> describe many possible objects. They are instead roles that
> may be held by object. Objects in class diagrams serve
> mainly to show examples of data structures.
>
> -- unquote ---
>
> Regards
>
> Arne
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 4:24 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: (ROSE) instance diagrams
>
> A couple of points about the Object Diagram.
>
> First, I have to respectfully disagree with the
> UML 1.3 standard. I do find object diagrams
> useful. In fact, I am just finishing up a domain
> model where I used object diagrams to help me
> discover classes and some of the complex
> relationships between those classes. I also use
> object diagrams to help me understand the
> multiplicity of associations when it is not
> obvious.
>
> Second, Rose does support the drawing of an object
> diagram. While they don't call it by that name,
> you can in essence draw an object diagram by
> drawing a collaboration diagram (or a sequence
> diagram, but IMHO the collaboration diagram is
> more flexible). The object symbol is also
> available on this diagram as well. It happens to
> closely resemble the class symbol, but it is in
> fact an object symbol. When you display a
> collaboration diagram, the object symbol is
> included in the tool palette.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Styve, Arne
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 3:29 AM
> To: Olivier Chauvineau; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: (ROSE) instance diagrams
>
> Hi,
>
> I think what you are requesting is an Object
> Diagram. In the UML
> 1.3-standard, this diagram-type is described as
> follows:
>
> --- quote ----
>
> An object diagram is a graph of instances,
> including objects and data
> values. A static
> object diagram is an instance of a class diagram;
> it shows a snapshot of the
> detailed
> state of a system at a point in time. The use of
> object diagrams is fairly
> limited, mainly
> to show examples of data structures.
> Tools need not support a separate format for
> object diagrams. Class diagrams
> can
> contain objects, so a class diagram with objects
> and no classes is an
> "object diagram."
> The phrase is useful, however, to characterize a
> particular usage achievable
> in various
> ways.
>
> --- unquote ----
>
> I.e. a diagram showing instances of classes at a
> certain stage/state in your
> application lifecycle.
>
> As far as I can see, this is a diagram not
> supported by Rose. Neither is the
> entity "Object" (instatance of a class) included
> as a symbol, except from in
> the sequence diagram.
> However, as the UML-spec states, it is not a very
> much used diagram type.
>
> Regards
>
> Arne
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Olivier Chauvineau
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 3:21 PM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: (ROSE) instance diagrams
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi All.
> >
> > I modelized a system with :
> > - a class diagram : showing
> associations,
> > inheritance links,
> > - an activity diagram :
> representing the activity of my
> > system
> >
> > (and also state diagrams for some classes, but
> this is out of
> > the scope for
> > my question).
> >
> > Now, I would like to add some sequence diagrams
> to represent
> > this system at
> > different stages of its life (for exemple:
> > SystemBeforeStepInTheFirstActivity,
> > SystemAfterStepOutTheFirstActivity,
> > etc...), showing interactions between different
> objects.
> >
> > For each sequence diagram, I would like to
> represent all the
> > instances of
> > all the classes involved: that is a graph of
> objects. it was
> > my first idea,
> > but I might be wrong? I think that it could
> bring an
> > interesting view of the
> > system: which classes has been instanciated?
> Which
> > associations has been
> > instanciated? How the objects are connected?
> etc...
> >
> > Thus, I want to use instance diagrams to
> represent all these
> > objects (that
> > is different instances of my class diagram): I
> think it is
> > one a the diagram
> > proposed by UML? But how can I manage this kind
> of diagram
> > with ROSE? I
> > can't find it in the menus?
> >
> > Is that correct to have this approach? (it is in
> the scope of
> > a reverse
> > engineering activity). Maybe, I don't need
> instance diagram to bring
> > something more for the understanding?
> > Thank you.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> \\\///
> > >
> > >
> > > ( oo )
> > >
>
> > (
> > > .. )
> > >
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------m------
>
> > m-----------
> > > ---------------
> > > Olivier Chauvineau
> > > Analyste-programmeur, D�veloppement /
> Programmer Analyst,
> > Development
> > > Les Syst�mes Proxima Lt�e / Proxima Systems
> Ltd.
> > >
> > > T�l. :+1.514.448.4122 / T�l�c.
> :+1.514.875.5167
> > >
> > > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------------------
>
> > ------------
> > > ------------------
> > >
> >
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