Bill,
  We did have some mail server problems the other day.  We are looking into
this matter.  Thanks for your patience.
otug-owner

-----Original Message-----
From: Watkins, Bill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2001 7:14 AM
To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
Subject: FW: (OTUG) Repeated messages




> -----Original Message-----
> From: Watkins, Bill [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2001 6:06 AM
> To:   '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'; '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'; 'Ian
> Chamberlain'
> Subject:      (OTUG) Repeated messages
> 
> I've gotten probably over 100 copies of this message in the last few days
> --
> anyone else getting bombarded?
> 
> Bill Watkins
> Applications Architect
> Information Technology and Data Systems
> Boeing Space and Communications Group - Houston
> 
> "Any opinions are my own, and do not reflect those of Boeing."
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From:       Ian Chamberlain [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent:       Tuesday, December 18, 2001 10:17 AM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject:    RE: (OTUG) .NET cross-language inheritance
> > 
> > >Nathaniel Kirby wrote:
> > > > Ian Chamberlain wrote:
> > > > >Nathaniel Kirby wrote:
> > > > >> > Eric Hodges wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I think it's pretty damn cool.  I loved COM because it
> > > > > > let me use whatever language I wanted to for a
> > > > > > specific problem.  .NET continues that tradition
> > > > > > without limiting implementation to interface
> > > > > > aggregation ala COM.
> > > > >
> > > > >IMHAUI what this means is that you really only have one
> > > > language with many
> > > > >syntaxes.  My understanding is that VB.NET looks more like
> > > > C# than VB and
> > > > >that C++.Net looks more like C# than C++.  They have the CLR
> > > > language and
> > > > >many syntaxes that compile to it but are constrained by what the
> CLR
> > > > >supports.  Anyoine otu there have a different understanding?
> > > > >
> > > > I don't agree with this understanding. VB still looks like VB
> > > > and C# looks like java if anything.
> > >Looks like and is are different.  Maybe I have an anti MS bias, but it 
> > >seems
> > >that all the .Net languages are CLR.
> > 
> > The CLR is a set of classes. They are not a language. All languages
> > compile 
> > to machine code. Does make them all the same. Most popular languages
> have
> > a 
> > set of common structures, such as conditionals, loops and so on. The 
> > differences are only syntactical.
> > 
> > > > Each language still has its own syntax and language rules. All .Net
> > > > languages are compiled to a common intermediate language. The
> > > > IL is then
> > > > precommpiled or JITed or whatever as necessary.
> > >Sounds like one language to me.
> > > > There are a common set of run-time classes that all .Net
> > > > platforms have to
> > > > provide.
> > >Still sounds like one language
> > > > These are called the Common Language Infrastructure (CLI).
> > > > Different platforms and languages may have extended
> > > > namespaces that add
> > > > additional classes to the CLI for a particular deployment.
> > > > This is what MS
> > > > have done for Windows. The Common Language Runtime (CLR) is an
> > > > implementation of the CLI, plus additional MS specific namespaces
> for
> > > > Windows and for VB. VB.Net is not deployable on a basic CLI
> > > > implementation.
> > > > It has to have the additional VB namespaces ported, whereas
> > > > C# is deployable against a basic CLI.
> > >
> > >OK here it seems the one language is extendable. I was not aware of
> this.
> > >Can C# utilize the VB namespaces? If so it still seesm like one
> language
> > to
> > >me.
> > 
> > A namespace is a mechanism for addressing a particular group of classes.
> > Any 
> > class can be accessed by any language because they share a common
> metadata
> > 
> > definition to describe attributes and method signatures and so on.
> > >
> > > > The idea is that you have a basic set of functionality that
> > > > gives a lowest
> > > > common denominator, but that can be extended on any
> > > > particular platform.
> > > > This is the big gripe MS had with java. They wanted to extend
> > > > the base java
> > > > classes and Sun didn't like it. With .Net the basic
> > > > infrastructure can be
> > > > extended by anyone.
> > >This has it's advantages.
> > > > So conceivably Sun could deploy a CLI on
> > > > Solaris and
> > > > extend it in ways that MS doesn't like, and MS couldn't do
> > > > anything about
> > > > it. Perish the thought!!
> > > >
> > > > Inheritance between classes written in different languages
> > > > occurs through a
> > > > common metadata standard. All .Net languages have to publish
> > > > information in
> > > > the same manner, thus allowing a class of one language to
> > > > understand the
> > > > semantics of a class written in another language.
> > >
> > >Yes the semantics are the same. All that varies is the syntax.  If I
> > >compiled C++ to Java byte code would it would really just be a syntax,
> > the
> > >semantics would be the bytecode.
> > 
> > If you wrote C++ it would still be C++. The fact that it is compiled to
> > byte 
> > codes before be interpreted is not the important thing. If I wrote an 
> > executable UML that used C++ as an intermediate step I'd still be
> writing 
> > UML not C++.
> > 
> > >In CLR speak the IT has the semantics.
> > >These namespaces are interesting.  But they must be written in
> something 
> > >IT?
> > >C#?
> > 
> > A namespace contains classes. It's a hierarchial way of grouping classes
> > so 
> > they can easily accessed. Classes can be written in any .Net language.
> > 
> > >
> > > > Personally I don't see a whole lot of different languages
> > > > being used within
> > > > a project. It makes more sense from a maintenance point of view to
> > > > concentrate on the one or two that best suit the needs of
> > > > that particular
> > > > shop. However what it does mean is that you don't have to worry what
> > > > language was used for third-party software. If you want to
> > > > buy a couple of
> > > > third-party classes for some reason, you can safely go ahead,
> > > > use those
> > > > components and even extend them, without having to worry if they
> were
> > > > written in VB, C#, Smalltalk or anything else, as long as
> > > > they are .Net
> > > > compliant.
> > >
> > >Yes this has advantages also - but don't expect Fortran number
> crunching
> > to
> > >be orders of magnitude faster than VB.NET under CLR, it's the same
> > language
> > >underneath. Lord knows what Perl, Python and APL will look like.
> > 
> > Thats perfectly true. For a full language member of .Net speed of
> > execution 
> > will not be a language choice. I think that this can be a good thing.
> What
> > I 
> > want is Fortran number crunching speed from my VB class.
> > >
> > >Do you know if they are going to support Haskel?
> > 
> > Not as far as I know. It's down to the language vendor to decide whether
> 
> > they want to port to the CLI or not.
> > > >
> > > > From what I've seen so far the quicker they get the CLI
> > > > implemented on other
> > > > platforms the happier I'll be.
> > >
> > >Yes, other platforms - not always MS' strong suit :)
> > 
> > There are developments currently under way. AFAIK the first should be 
> > FreeBSD. Beta is due any day now.
> > >
> > > > From the stuff I seen and
> > > > played with it's
> > > > easy to develop with, easy to deploy and fast to execute. If
> > > > they really get
> > > > it cross-platform java could have a real fight on its hands.
> > > > Of course there
> > > > is always j# but I think the purists might not like that ;-)
> > >
> > >It sounds nice.
> > >
> > Ian Chamberlain
> > 
> > Seriousness is the only refuge of the shallow.
> >             -- Oscar Wilde
> > 
> > 
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
> > 
> > 
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe from OTUG, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > with the word 'unsubscribe' in the body of the message.
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from OTUG, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> with the word 'unsubscribe' in the body of the message.
************************************************************************
* Rose Forum is a public venue for ideas and discussions.
* For technical support, visit http://www.rational.com/support
*
* Post or Reply to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
* Subscription Requests: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
* Archive of messages:
*    http://www.rational.com/support/usergroups/rose/rose_forum.jsp
* Other Requests: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
*
* To unsubscribe from the list, please send email
*    To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
*    Subject: <BLANK>
*    Body: unsubscribe rose_forum
*************************************************************************

Reply via email to