'agree with Lorenzo here.
Ties in Matrix format are equivalent to putting punctuation sounds in an
audio text
a la Victor Borge no? ;o)
It pointlessly conflicts with the Matrix conception of the music for the
sake of a different, currently irrelevant conception of it.
I presume the translation between formats is more or less automatic.
Perhaps its something that could be a user option in Matrix format?
My 2d...
Chuck.
On 2/7/22 9:32 AM, Will Godfrey wrote:
On Mon, 7 Feb 2022 09:30:31 +0100
Lorenzo Sutton <lorenzofsut...@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Philip,
Thank you so much for looking into this!
On 05/02/22 16:58, Philip Leishman wrote:
Hmm...
The behaviour in the matrix editor comes from the SegmentNotationHelper
makeNotesViable call.
So if the collapse from the matrix editor doesn't make this call .....
Of course things will look strange in the notation editor.
I have made a version which doesn't make that call from the matrix editor.
Thoughts ???
I'm honestly not sure. From a UX point of view (personal opinion), as
said I think the matrix and notation editors are different environments
with different use cases potentially within an overall workflow of
working with a piece.
The notation editor is great for, well, inputting notation be it because
a user feels more comfortable with it, but I think also depending on the
type of piece etc. It is also a great starting point for actually
preparing a score, a pretty unique feature of Rosegarden as a sequencer
(especially in linux-land). There tied notes absolutely make sense.
The matrix editor is somewhat 'lower-level' and more related to the
actual workings of MIDI. Older people like me are also familiar with
trackers and the concept of a note as a start,duration,end event in a
timeline (be it vertical or horizontal). The 'notation' of matrix
editors is pretty intuitive and I've always found having 'tied' notes in
it rather confusing. Matrix editor is really the fastest way of
sequencing, especially certain types of music, if you know what you're
doing.
I understand that there seems to be a lower-level code 'connection'
between the two with tied notes, but I'm not sure why one would even
want the concept of tied notes in the matrix. A tied note is just a
notation convention for representing a longer note with shorter values,
be it for performers' readability (e.g. it can make sense to have a 1/2
starting on the 2/2 of a 4/4 measure represented as two 1/4 tied notes),
or for longer notes spanning multiple measures, etc.
Again, from a purely user perspective I just never grasped why tied
notes in the matrix. Maybe I'm missing something. The only use case for
it would be entering notes in the matrix with the final aim of producing
a score and therefore wanting to make explicit certain notation elements
>from the matrix... But then one could argue that you should be able to
represent dotted notes (which you can consider 'syntactic sugar' for
tied notes borrowing from coding...) etc. etc.
CCing the list so maybe we can have other opinions :-)
Lorenzo
See merge request
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*[bugs:#1575] <https://sourceforge.net/p/rosegarden/bugs/1575/>
Inconsistent Collapse Equal pitch notes in matrix editor*
*Status:* closed
*Group:* None
*Labels:* matrix
*Created:* Tue Apr 14, 2020 04:19 PM UTC by Lorenzo
*Last Updated:* Sat Feb 05, 2022 12:17 PM UTC
*Owner:* Philip Leishman
*Attachments:*
* matrix_editor_collapse.mp4
<https://sourceforge.net/p/rosegarden/bugs/1575/attachment/matrix_editor_collapse.mp4>
(1.3 MB; video/mp4)
While this was somewhat addressed in [bugs:#1495]
<https://sourceforge.net/p/rosegarden/bugs/1495/> , unfortunately this
behaviour still seems problematic in the *matrix editor* with notes to
be 'collapsed'
What I mean is, try this:
* In the Matrix editor
* create two notes that 'touch each other (e.q. 1/4 notes), one on the
last quarter of a bar, one on the first one of the next
* Select both notes
* Do Adjust > Collapse equal pitch notes
As a result the notes (because they are in different bars), actually get
/tied/ which is fine in the notation editor but IMHO not fine in the
matrix editor. Especially 'tied' notes in the matrix editor have two bad
side effects:
1. if you try to increase or decreas the duration of the 'tied' note the
notes are split and individually resized. This is conceptually and
musically wrong in the matrix editor because tied notes are just a
graphical convention, while in the matrix view we are looking at them as
events.
2. The behaviour of the Collapse equal pitch notes is not consistent
because *if* the notes are in the same bars collapsing will create a
unique bigger note as expected; if they are across bars the Collapse
equal pitch notes function will actually do what Phrase > Tie does (also
a function in the matrix editor).
So I think there are 3. options:
1. In the *matrix editor* Collapse Equal-pitch notes does what it says
which in matrix editor context means join the notes and make a new big
note from them as long as they are adjacent and regardless of being in
different bars or not. the typical use case is editing a string part in
the matrix editor and wanting to join notes which span bars for voicing.
In this case the former functionality is still retained with the 'Tie'
command which more intuitively ties notes if they span bars
2. Create a new 'join equal pitch' functionality which taken selected
equal pitch notes joins them into one note. An added possibility of this
could be that it would work also for non-adjacent notes. But I'm not
sure if this would really be useful (might be confusing)
3. Retain the current behaviour /but/ allow the user to change the
duration of 'tied' notes globally.
personally I'd prefer 1 or 2 (without the non adjacent notes behaviour)
Just noticed this topic...
I wonder if this is related to a problem I get sometimes.
I work exclusively in the matrix editor. Usually having recorded a real-time
performance.
If I then change the time signature I frequently get a bunch of notes broken up
into (apparently) random sized bits, and it's a nightmare to put them all
together again.
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