Robin, > -----Original Message----- > From: Robin Whittle [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 11:19 AM > To: RRG > Cc: Templin, Fred L > Subject: Re: [rrg] Recommendation suggestion from RW (Brian Eno's perspective) > > Hi Fred, > > You wrote: > > >> I am trying to prompt people into actually debating proposals, rather > >> than just talking about their own. Point 1 doesn't include people > >> arguing why Ivip is the best choice, but I would be happy for someone > >> to do so. > > > > I think part of the problem is that with a few exceptions > > (such as yourself) those who have their own proposals may > > be so deeply engrossed in understanding and expressing what > > they are trying to accomplish that it is impossible to bring > > our heads up above water long enough to give a deeper > > consideration for other proposals. Or maybe I am just > > speaking for myself... > > This is the problem I am trying to overcome. As noted by k claffy > and Eliot Lear: > > feature comparison chart, conscripted peer review ? > http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rrg/current/msg06024.html > http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rrg/current/msg06044.html > http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rrg/current/msg06054.html > > the RRG suffers from lack of critiques of proposals. k claffy > suggested everyone who wrote a proposal be required to critique three > or so others. Eliot concurred: > > I think this is a great (and necessary) idea to give authority to > the work people are doing. > > > I learn a great amount by reading and discussing other proposals. > Some of the most significant improvements to Ivip arose when I was > trying to understand or improve on someone-else's proposal. These > were all proposals I didn't think would work - but I still learnt > about scalable routing by reading and discussing them, and I was > prompted into thinking things which turned out to be improvements to > Ivip where I never thought there was a need for improvement. > > The modified header forwarding stuff arose when I was discussing > Six/One Router, though there's no such thing in Six/One Router. > > The DRTM idea - which overcomes some big objections to Ivip - came > from imagining an improvement to a recent proposal (I think it was > Compact Routing), then thinking it would be a possible improvement to > LISP and only then developing it further and seeing it would be an > improvement to Ivip. There is absolutely nothing of DRTM in whatever > proposal I was writing about - but writing prompted a line of > thinking which turned out to be productive. > > Of course I learn basic things about scalable routing from discussing > other proposals - especially discussing things with you. > > > Now's the time to quote Brian Eno (Backwater 1977) and his critique > of the straight-line, overly self-focused, approach you mentioned: > > But if you study the logistics > And heuristics of the mystics > You will find that their minds rarely move in a line > So it's much more realistic > To abandon such ballistics > And resign to be trapped on a leaf in the vine. > > I learnt a bunch of stuff reading and discussing the 14 other > proposals even though I _knew_ none of them were as good as Ivip. > > I think others would have the same experience - and that this would > be a better way of improving their proposal than by working on it in > isolation.
I recognize what you are saying, and say once again that some contributers seem to have more "bandwidth" in processing these mountains of information than others. However, I can assure you that IRON-RANGER (nor VET nor SEAL) were not developed in isolation; they are rather the product of sifting through an ocean of ideas that have been drifting through the ether for decades and trying to arrive at as necessary and sufficient a set as possible. I think I can even claim a few of the ideas as my own, but probably far fewer than those that can more accurately be attributed to others. Thanks - Fred [email protected] > - Robin _______________________________________________ rrg mailing list [email protected] http://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/rrg
