just for the records: I've read this posting, like it very much but need some time to digest before I can craft a useful response.
Rainer On Wed, Jan 22, 2014 at 7:48 AM, Radu Gheorghe <[email protected]>wrote: > Hi, > > I think I need to make my thoughts clear regarding the flexibility topic, > because I saw the same position by Otis and I saw some reactions to my > earlier Email. > > Let's imagine logging tools are cars. Rsyslog seems to be one that's > resource-efficient (light) and has a good top speed (fast). Handling > (configuration) is not that easy and all-terrain abilities (adding new > modules) are also difficult. Those two things are the flexibility I was > talking about. > > My journal + mongodb example was intentionally chosen as something that > rsyslog *can* do, but it's not that easy. We can look at the causes: > documentation is far from where we want it, names like "imuxsock" or > "mmnormalize" are far from being intuitive. In car terms, this is what I > mean by "handling is difficult": it can take a turn, but requires some > skill. > > Writing a new module is possible, or course, but again: documentation can > be more detailed and writing this C code is nowhere near as easy as, say, > Ruby. In car terms, this is what I mean by "all terrain ability": it can go > on some gravel, but I wouldn't cross a river with it. > > Can we improve on flexibility? Of course we can and it's a good thing to > do. If a car can't take a turn without flipping over it's useless and if it > can only go on track only a handful of people will buy it. But we can't > take a Ferrari and make it a VW Touareg. We can improve it in lots of ways, > make it handle better (improve docs) or even add 4-wheel drive (improve > omprog, add more modules) but ultimately there are some design decisions > that limit how far we [want to] go in that direction, especially when there > are good SUVs out there on one hand and people need what rsyslog offers on > the other. > > Making rsyslog (more) flexible by helping users configure and extend it > easier is definitely something that we should do. But making it a mission > (ie: a top priority) out of this? I think it's not credible, nor is it > realistic. I'd rather rsyslog as a tool that's light, fast and reliable > (mission!) and that can also do a lot of stuff. > > Like a McLaren F1: can still smoke supercars after 25 years, with a couple > of buddies and their backpacks on-board. Its mission was to be the ultimate > driver's car, and not to be a usable/flexible grand-tourer. Flexibility > comes in as P2, and it's important so you can actually use the thing. > > I hope I didn't bore you with my comparison, I tried my best to make myself > clear. On the upside, the designer guy I talked to gave me the first logo. > I'll post it on a different thread. > > Best regards, > Radu > > > 2014/1/21 Rainer Gerhards <[email protected]> > > > Sorry folks, i had some very time critical things on my agenda... i > > overlooked a dependency ;) will rejoin this great discussion tomorrow. > > Just so that you know i am very interested. Actually, its kind of a > > reality check for me. Flexibility was always high on ny agenda, it > probably > > has slipped for performance without me noticing. I'd like to get most of > > both. Maybe with the upcoming non-c interface... > > > > Keep the thoughts flowing! > > > > Rainer > > > > Sent from phone, thus brief. > > Am 21.01.2014 19:35 schrieb "Dave Caplinger" < > > [email protected] > > >: > > > > > On Jan 20, 2014, at 4:24 PM, David Lang <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > On Mon, 20 Jan 2014, Radu Gheorghe wrote: > > > > > > > >> I'm not saying rsyslog shouldn't do flexibility. I think it's > > > uberimportant > > > >> and it's worth investing in. I'm saying we should go with one of the > > > >> directions where rsyslog is pushed to that: > > > >> - is already partially accomplished (so it's credible) > > > >> - has the potential to go > > > >> - last but not least, where we want it to go :) > > > >> > > > >> I thought something that includes the words fast, light and > processing > > > will > > > >> do, given the history of rsyslog and where it seems to go now with > v8. > > > > > > > > I see rsyslog as being the core of a logging system, it gathers logs > > from > > > > (almost) anything, and delivers them to (almost) anything. It can > > modify > > > and > > > > filter the messages along the way. > > > > > > This is similar to my own "customer testimonial." The three main > reasons > > I > > > switched to rsyslog are: > > > > > > 1) Much higher performance. > > > 2) It has DAQ, detailed pstats, TLS, RELP, and now log-signing support > so > > > it's reliable in the sense that logs that get in are not going to get > > lost > > > someplace mysteriously. (Even drops outside your control become > > > manageable/correctable.) > > > 3) Property replacement, JSON, and filtering, allow you to modify and > > > route logs as you like. > > > > > > Going with the R-theme (since 'R' initially meant Reliable) that gives > > me: > > > > > > * Reliable > > > * Rapid > > > * Routing > > > > > > (Back to the logo: borrowing from another of Rainer's interests that I > > > happen to share, maybe R is for Rocket [with apologies to Ray > Bradbury].) > > > > > > Contrast this with logstash, which is extremely flexible: it can > connect > > > just about any input to just about any output, like pipe/grep/awk/etc. > > for > > > log streams. It's a "log format translator", but not necessarily a > > > high-performance "log router". > > > > > > - Dave > > > _______________________________________________ > > > rsyslog mailing list > > > http://lists.adiscon.net/mailman/listinfo/rsyslog > > > http://www.rsyslog.com/professional-services/ > > > What's up with rsyslog? Follow https://twitter.com/rgerhards > > > NOTE WELL: This is a PUBLIC mailing list, posts are ARCHIVED by a > myriad > > > of sites beyond our control. PLEASE UNSUBSCRIBE and DO NOT POST if you > > > DON'T LIKE THAT. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > rsyslog mailing list > > http://lists.adiscon.net/mailman/listinfo/rsyslog > > http://www.rsyslog.com/professional-services/ > > What's up with rsyslog? Follow https://twitter.com/rgerhards > > NOTE WELL: This is a PUBLIC mailing list, posts are ARCHIVED by a myriad > > of sites beyond our control. PLEASE UNSUBSCRIBE and DO NOT POST if you > > DON'T LIKE THAT. > > > _______________________________________________ > rsyslog mailing list > http://lists.adiscon.net/mailman/listinfo/rsyslog > http://www.rsyslog.com/professional-services/ > What's up with rsyslog? Follow https://twitter.com/rgerhards > NOTE WELL: This is a PUBLIC mailing list, posts are ARCHIVED by a myriad > of sites beyond our control. PLEASE UNSUBSCRIBE and DO NOT POST if you > DON'T LIKE THAT. > _______________________________________________ rsyslog mailing list http://lists.adiscon.net/mailman/listinfo/rsyslog http://www.rsyslog.com/professional-services/ What's up with rsyslog? Follow https://twitter.com/rgerhards NOTE WELL: This is a PUBLIC mailing list, posts are ARCHIVED by a myriad of sites beyond our control. PLEASE UNSUBSCRIBE and DO NOT POST if you DON'T LIKE THAT.
