Unfortunately LI is not our call. I know the IETF finds it an anathema but it is an unspoken (in IETF) reality of the telecommunications industry.
The concept of a huge number of highly portable, highly directional, microwave links that are then relayed opaquely to a foreign country is going to delight some agencies and give heartburn to their colleagues in other parts of the same agency cluster. I think that we can all postulate how this would (will) be solved in a mega-cluster owned by a large ITU region 2 country, or a particularly large Asian country but I assume we want to design a global / universal system rather than one that will otherwise inevitably be partitioned due to geo-political security concerns. Stewart Sent from my iPad > On 8 Jul 2021, at 23:22, Lin Han <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Hesham, > > Thanks for the answer. > I don’t have too many concerns for this regard, and it may be out the scope > of the draft. > > Satellite to ground station communication needs license for its spectrum in > different country and LI is feasible. > But ISL is between satellites. LI may not be a feasible requirement: 1) > Satellites are in out space that is not belonging to any country, so I doubt > any country can have such legal requirement for ISL. 2) ISL use laser that is > not a spectrum controlled by any country or organization. 3) LI for ISL is so > costly and seems not likely. You need to get FCC or other organization’s > approve for the new orbit to launch a new satellite and its orbit is very > close to the existing satellite, this itself is almost impossible. I don’t > see any other feasible way you can do LI for ISL if laser is used for ISL. > > Regards > > Lin > > > From: Hesham ElBakoury <[email protected]> > Sent: Thursday, July 8, 2021 10:57 AM > To: Lin Han <[email protected]> > Cc: Stewart Bryant <[email protected]>; [email protected]; > [email protected]; [email protected]; UTTARO, JAMES <[email protected]>; > [email protected] > Subject: Re: [Int-area] New Version Notification for > draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt > > I think LI means Lawful Intercept. > It is a security issue. I recall seeing some ETSI documents about it. > > Hesham > > On Thu, Jul 8, 2021, 10:52 AM Lin Han <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi, Stewart, > > What does “LI” stand for? > ISL is not mature enough for real adoption. > The academia research suggested to use laser instead of microwave. When laser > is used for ISL, there should not have spectrum license issue, I don’t see > the ITU or USA has spectrum allocation for the frequency of laser > (400THz~700THz). > > Lin > > From: Stewart Bryant <[email protected]> > Sent: Thursday, July 8, 2021 7:19 AM > To: Hesham ElBakoury <[email protected]> > Cc: Stewart Bryant <[email protected]>; Lin Han > <[email protected]>; [email protected]; [email protected]; > [email protected]; UTTARO, JAMES <[email protected]>; [email protected] > Subject: Re: [Int-area] New Version Notification for > draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt > > The thing that worries me about iSL is whether the inability to do LI will > prohibit licensing in some countries. > > - Stewart > > > > > On 7 Jul 2021, at 03:51, Hesham ElBakoury <[email protected]> wrote: > > Mark Handley published the paper "Using ground relays for low-latency > wide-area routing in megaconstellations" to show that even if we do not have > ISL we can use ground terminals to route traffic with better latency than > fiber links. > > Thanks > Hesham > > > On Tue, Jul 6, 2021, 10:08 AM Lin Han <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi, Jim > > I don't have clear answer. > What I can guess now is that most of current technologies (with enhancement) > can be used, but some new technologies might be needed to solve the satellite > specific issues, such as fast mobility, frequent topology changes, > constraints in satellite power, security in open space, etc. > It is up to the community to decide what new technologies and what new > protocols will be developed. > > Regards > > Lin > > > -----Original Message----- > From: UTTARO, JAMES <[email protected]> > Sent: Tuesday, July 6, 2021 7:20 AM > To: Lin Han <[email protected]>; [email protected]; [email protected]; > [email protected] > Cc: [email protected] > Subject: RE: New Version Notification for > draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt > > Lin, > > Are you suggesting that the current set of protocols can be used with > or without enhancements or is the uniqueness of the satellite network require > new protocol(s) to address the architecture you have laid out.. > > Thanks, > Jim Uttaro > > -----Original Message----- > From: Idr <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Lin Han > Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2021 8:41 PM > To: [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected] > Cc: [email protected] > Subject: [Idr] FW: New Version Notification for > draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt > > Hi, > > This draft analyzed the problems and requirements for the satellite network > when it is integrated with Internet by current routing technologies. > It may be relevant and interesting to internet, BGP, IGP. The further > solution proposals may also come from different groups including research > initiative SARAH. > > Look forwarding to discussion and comments. > > Thanks > > Lin > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] <[email protected]> > Sent: Saturday, July 3, 2021 5:07 PM > To: Lin Han <[email protected]>; Richard Li <[email protected]> > Subject: New Version Notification for > draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt > > > A new version of I-D, draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt > has been successfully submitted by Lin Han and posted to the IETF repository. > > Name: draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net > Revision: 00 > Title: Problems and Requirements of Satellite Constellation for > Internet > Document date: 2021-07-03 > Group: Individual Submission > Pages: 32 > URL: > https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2F%2Fnam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com%2F%3Furl%3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Fwww.ietf.org*2Farchive*2Fid*2Fdraft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt%26amp%3Bdata%3D04*7C01*7Clin.han*40futurewei.com*7C495bb2e109a743748f6108d93e7fa6f8*7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc*7C1*7C0*7C637609540278583772*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C1000%26amp%3Bsdata%3DqoFJMo63iQsH8W9iTaP5Vx*2F4OjIhXHoY*2BrdbcM*2FMntM*3D%26amp%3Breserved%3D0__%3BJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!BhdT!xvPiP9_hbkTD5NSajUzwqMhYGZLdFbSjp8NUTJ6PMxLHqI6tW_E4RbgGabg%24&data=04%7C01%7Clin.han%40futurewei.com%7Cc54df16138144c7ed23408d940893b44%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637611780428304372%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=xeP%2BMuWGk%2By8UtK8K9Oinjvk50jBp%2FuZQ2 > rC8uHaH2M%3D&reserved=0 > Status: > https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2F%2Fnam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com%2F%3Furl%3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Fdatatracker.ietf.org*2Fdoc*2Fdraft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net*2F%26amp%3Bdata%3D04*7C01*7Clin.han*40futurewei.com*7C495bb2e109a743748f6108d93e7fa6f8*7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc*7C1*7C0*7C637609540278583772*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C1000%26amp%3Bsdata%3Dr81hJUdFIvaZlm8DQYVBq3vMdC8x7SeExjqIZyE765g*3D%26amp%3Breserved%3D0__%3BJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!BhdT!xvPiP9_hbkTD5NSajUzwqMhYGZLdFbSjp8NUTJ6PMxLHqI6tW_E4pUhPs_o%24&data=04%7C01%7Clin.han%40futurewei.com%7Cc54df16138144c7ed23408d940893b44%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637611780428304372%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=v2TL2s8B1%2B5s5jd90eOoX9mFhF1Onrl5H1t3ANih2ZM%3D&re > served=0 > Html: > https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2F%2Fnam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com%2F%3Furl%3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Fwww.ietf.org*2Farchive*2Fid*2Fdraft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.html%26amp%3Bdata%3D04*7C01*7Clin.han*40futurewei.com*7C495bb2e109a743748f6108d93e7fa6f8*7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc*7C1*7C0*7C637609540278583772*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C1000%26amp%3Bsdata%3DYGLcf4XbKhOQwcFj4iFyYrmEpbi3yKt8BcPeVQvaua0*3D%26amp%3Breserved%3D0__%3BJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!BhdT!xvPiP9_hbkTD5NSajUzwqMhYGZLdFbSjp8NUTJ6PMxLHqI6tW_E4oLMB6mk%24&data=04%7C01%7Clin.han%40futurewei.com%7Cc54df16138144c7ed23408d940893b44%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637611780428304372%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=mNQ9LrmFNNJKJomi3ocawbPYPt96UIntbZQN2vtsafY%3D&am > p;reserved=0 > Htmlized: > https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2F%2Fnam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com%2F%3Furl%3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Fdatatracker.ietf.org*2Fdoc*2Fhtml*2Fdraft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net%26amp%3Bdata%3D04*7C01*7Clin.han*40futurewei.com*7C495bb2e109a743748f6108d93e7fa6f8*7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc*7C1*7C0*7C637609540278593776*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C1000%26amp%3Bsdata%3Djl23CFSMjAbFnPCvHABeVeAKmOH1ODaq1q7U2BfH*2FQU*3D%26amp%3Breserved%3D0__%3BJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!BhdT!xvPiP9_hbkTD5NSajUzwqMhYGZLdFbSjp8NUTJ6PMxLHqI6tW_E4fYkRUn0%24&data=04%7C01%7Clin.han%40futurewei.com%7Cc54df16138144c7ed23408d940893b44%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637611780428304372%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=iolNgYArNpDQlaMX7Xd6hYc7vuSOxdxkeXboUnBD988%3D&a > mp;reserved=0 > > > Abstract: > This document presents the detailed analysis about the problems and > requirements of satellite constellation used for Internet. It starts > from the satellite orbit basics, coverage calculation, then it > estimates the time constraints for the communications between > satellite and ground-station, also between satellites. How to use > satellite constellation for Internet is discussed in details > including the satellite relay and satellite networking. The problems > and requirements of using traditional network technology for > satellite network integrating with Internet are finally outlined. > > > > > The IETF Secretariat > > > _______________________________________________ > Idr mailing list > [email protected] > https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fidr__%3B!!BhdT!xvPiP9_hbkTD5NSajUzwqMhYGZLdFbSjp8NUTJ6PMxLHqI6tW_E4Z0Dk4O4%24&data=04%7C01%7Clin.han%40futurewei.com%7Cc54df16138144c7ed23408d940893b44%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637611780428314367%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=UC0XpJ%2FtkgXxnU9yJazLK7kMtL0X94PfeVFSeaqMaYE%3D&reserved=0 > > > _______________________________________________ > Int-area mailing list > [email protected] > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area > _______________________________________________ > Int-area mailing list > [email protected] > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area >
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