Dear Shri Mander, You are not in the mailing list of yahoo groups rti4ngo and rti4empowerment, initiated by me. Therefore I can not help in unsubscribing.
Group rti_india is managed by Shri Sarbjit Roy He is being requested to do the needful. You can also unsubscribe by sending email to [email protected] With best wishes, Dhirendra Krishna On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 10:06 AM, Harsh Mander <[email protected]>wrote: > dear dhirendraji, > i have been trying desperately to unsubscribe. do please rndure, i will be > grateful. > warm regards, > harsh mander > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dhirendra Krishna" < > [email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 9:44 AM > Subject: Re: [rti_india] Re:"You may also note that public servants are > prohibited from joining / postin > > > Dear Shri Roy, > > It is a matter of interpretation, Sir. > > You and I, as moderators of RTI related groups are not the competent > authority to interpret the provisions of CCS (Conduct) Rules and Govt. of > India decisions there-under. We can only decide on the objectives of the > Internet group and act as a moderator. > > RTI Act is a law passed by the Parliament and Government is required to > implement it. If an Internet group is a "movement" to voice citizen's > concern about its non implementation, I believe that it is not an activity > to embarrass or excite dissatisfaction against the Government. As a matter > of fact, most of the RTI applications demand public records that may > embarrass Government. If you carefully look at the preamble of RTI Act, the > enactment is for transparency of information for holding Government > accountable to the governed. It is further stated therein that transparency > of information is vital for containing corruption. If we believe in > paramountcy of the democratic ideal, public servants should be aware of the > deep anguish of the citizens on issues arising from lack of transparency. > > RTI Act intends to usher in transparent and accountable public > administration. In my humble opinion ( and also in the opinion of > Administrative Reforms Commission on RTI implementation) every public > servant should be aware of RTI Act, so that they can fulfill the > obligations > of public authority in letter and spirit. At the nascent stage of > implementation of RTI Act, there are controversies and some of these > debatable issues are aired in the Internet group. Every *good* public > servant should not only be aware of citizen's concern about unsatisfactory > implementation of RTI Act and issues revealed by use of RTI Act by > citizens. > If membership of Internet groups enables Government servants to become > aware > of these issues, it is in public interest for them to remain as Member of > such group. > > Let us leave it to the Government to give their decisions under CCS > (Conduct) Rules; it is not for the moderator on groups to decide one way > or > the other. If the Government ever decides to ban membership of RTI related > Internet groups for Government employees, there are adequate grounds for > public interest litigation against it. This could be an interesting debate > before the Supreme Court ! > > For the present, none of the RTI related groups have been banned under CCS > (Conduct) Rules. It is not for moderators (like you and me) to dissuade > public servant from Membership. > > With best wishes, > > Dhirendra Krishna IA&AS (Retired) > Moderator, > Yahoo groups rti4ngo and rti4empwerment. > On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 8:31 AM, sroy1947 <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> >> Dear Mr Krishna >> >> Many thanks for the Govt decision (of Finance Ministry). It supports our >> view that direct participation of Govt servants in SPECIALISED "political" >> internet groups such as ours is restricted. It is always open to any Govt >> to >> ban a group or clarify that a groups ex-facie falls within the mischief of >> Rule 5, but such action cannot be an exhaustive compendium. >> >> The ilustrative explanation to the old rule holds political movement to >> include "any movement or activities tending directly or indirectly to >> excite >> disaffection against, or to embarrass, the >> Government as by law established" .. I think our groups fall squarely >> within such definition. >> >> Sarbajit >> >> --- In [email protected] <rti_india%40yahoogroups.com>, Dhirendra >> Krishna <dhirendra....@...> wrote: >> > >> > Dear Shri Sarbajit, >> > >> > This has been clarified in Government of India Decision number 1, given >> > below. >> > >> > In my humble opinion, if a Government servant participates in an > >> internet >> > discussion group, it does not amount to "taking part in politics or >> > election" OR "assisting political movement or activity." Each officer is >> > required to judge for himself (or herself) whether participation in >> internet >> > group dealing with citizen's right to information is a violation of Rule >> 5 >> > of CCS (Conduct) Rule- depending on activities and content of each > >> group. >> If >> > he/she has any doubts, his/her superior can be consulted. >> > >> > Several organisations have been specifically banned by the Government >> > under Rule 5 as per various Government decision under Rule 5; none of > >> the >> > internet discussion groups have been banned. As such there is no bar on >> > Government servants membership of any internet group. Your or my opinion >> > does not matter; it is for the Government of India to frame conduct > >> rules >> > for the Government servants. >> > >> > >> > Dhirendra Krishna >> > >> >> .................................................................................................................................................... >> > >> > Government of India Decisions >> > >> > (1) Participation of Government servants in political activities >> > >> > Doubts have been raised recently as to the scope of Rule 23 (i) of the >> > Government Servants Conduct Rules (now Rule 5) which lays down that no >> > Government servant shall take part in, subscribe in aid of, or assist in >> any >> > way, any political movement in India or relating to Indian affairs. >> > According to the Explanation (not in the new rule) to that clause, the >> > expression "political movement" includes any movement or activities >> tending >> > directly or indirectly to excite disaffection against, or to embarrass, >> the >> > Government as by law established or to promote feelings of hatred of >> enemity >> > between classes of His Majesty's subjects or disturb the public peace. >> This >> > explanation is only illustrative and is not intended in any sense, to be >> an >> > exhaustive definition of "political movement". Whether or not the aims >> and >> > activities of any organization are political is a question of fact which >> has >> > to be decided on the merits of each case. It is, in the opinion of >> > Government, necessary, however, that the Government servants under the >> > Ministry of Finance etc. should be warned that >> > >> > (a) it is the duty of the Government servant who wishes to join, or take >> > part in the activities of any association or organization positively to >> > satisfy himself that its aim and activities are not of such a nature as >> are >> > likely to be objectionable under Rule 23 of the Government Servants' >> Conduct >> > Rules (now rule 5); and >> > >> > (b) the responsibility for the consequences of his decision and action >> must >> > rest squarely on his shoulders and that a plea of ignorance or >> misconception >> > as to Government's attitude towards the association or organization > >> would >> > not be tenable. >> > >> > It should also be impressed on them that, in cases where the slightest >> doubt >> > exists as to whether participation in the activities of an association > >> or >> > orgaisation involves as infringement of Rule 23 (now Rule 5), the >> Government >> > servant would be well advised to consult his official superiors. >> > >> > [MHA OM No. 25/44/49-Ests (A), dated 17.09.1949] >> > >> > "Government of India Decisions >> > >> > (1) Participation of Government servants in political activities >> > >> > Doubts have been raised recently as to the scope of Rule 23 (i) of the >> > Government Servants Conduct Rules (now Rule 5) which lays down that no >> > Government servant shall take part in, subscribe in aid of, or assist in >> any >> > way, any political movement in India or relating to Indian affairs. >> > According to the Explanation (not in the new rule) to that clause, the >> > expression "political movement" includes any movement or activities >> tending >> > directly or indirectly to excite disaffection against, or to embarrass, >> the >> > Government as by law established or to promote feelings of hatred of >> enemity >> > between classes of His Majesty's subjects or disturb the public peace. >> This >> > explanation is only illustrative and is not intended in any sense, to be >> an >> > exhaustive definition of "political movement". Whether or not the aims >> and >> > activities of any organization are political is a question of fact which >> has >> > to be decided on the merits of each case. It is, in the opinion of >> > Government, necessary, however, that the Government servants under the >> > Ministry of Finance etc. should be warned that >> > >> > (a) it is the duty of the Government servant who wishes to join, or take >> > part in the activities of any association or organization positively to >> > satisfy himself that its aim and activities are not of such a nature as >> are >> > likely to be objectionable under Rule 23 of the Government Servants' >> Conduct >> > Rules (now rule 5); and >> > >> > (b) the responsibility for the consequences of his decision and action >> must >> > rest squarely on his shoulders and that a plea of ignorance or >> misconception >> > as to Government's attitude towards the association or organization > >> would >> > not be tenable. >> > >> > It should also be impressed on them that, in cases where the slightest >> doubt >> > exists as to whether participation in the activities of an association > >> or >> > orgaisation involves as infringement of Rule 23 (now Rule 5), the >> Government >> > servant would be well advised to consult his official superiors. >> > >> > [MHA OM No. 25/44/49-Ests (A), dated 17.09.1949]" >> > >> >> ............................................................................................................................................................ >> > >> > On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 11:34 AM, sroy1947 <sroy1...@...> wrote: >> > >> > > >> > > >> > > Many Thanks >> > > >> > > Gov servants are restricted from OPENLY associating with groups such > >> > as >> > > "RTI_India" , "RTI4ngo" (of which Mr Krishna is Moderator) etc which >> are >> > > listed in "Politics" category of Yahoo groups. As Moderators it is our >> duty >> > > to facilitate participation of ALL citizens in RTI processes - and >> anonymous >> > > participation is one of the methods open to us. >> > > >> > > Sarbajit >> > > >> > > --- In [email protected] > > <rti_india%40yahoogroups.com >> ><rti_india% >> 40yahoogroups.com>, Dhirendra >> > > Krishna <Dhirendra.rti@> wrote: >> > > > >> > > > Friends, >> > > > >> > > > Rule 5 of CCS(Conduct) Rules and Government decisions are at : >> > > > >> > > >> >> http://persmin.nic.in/EmployeesCorner/Acts_Rules/CCSRules_1964/ccs_conduct_rules_1964_details.htm#05%20Govt%20Decision%2003 >> > > > Accordingly, no Government servant shall be a member of, or be >> otherwise >> > > > associated with, any political party or any organisation which takes >> part >> > > in >> > > > politics nor shall he take part in, subscribe in aid of, or assist > >> > > in >> any >> > > > other manner, any political movement or activity. >> > > > >> > > > It has been clarified by the Moderator that Government servants are >> > > > restricted from membership of RTI_India group. >> > > > >> > > > Dhirendra Krishna >> > > > On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 9:25 AM, sroy1947 <sroy1947@> wrote: >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> > >> >> >> >> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rti_india/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rti_india/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[email protected] mailto:[email protected] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [email protected] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
