Hi Thanks for this clarification. I should think there is no need to test this case.
My specific question is if a report prepared by consultant for a Govt agency can at all be protected under copyright, especially considering that the report is shared under RTI. In fact the point is whether the Govt can claim copyright on public domain information, even when a private agency is contracted to produce a report for a public purpose. Leo sroy1947 wrote: > > Dear Mr Saldanha, > > IMO, you are mistaken if you that think that publishing a DPR obtained > by you in RTI on your website is permitted BY RTI Act or that such > disclosure puts the documents into "public domain". > > IMO, you are also liable to be prosecuted under the Official Secrets > Act on suitable complaint. > > A similar matter had cropped up in this CIC decision. > http://cic.gov.in/CIC-Orders/SG-14112008-09.pdf > <http://cic.gov.in/CIC-Orders/SG-14112008-09.pdf> > > The facts of the matter were that an NGO "Centre for Civil Society" > had obtained a copy of a JNURM CDP and published it (without > permission) on their website. Another applicant who applied for the > same information was initially informed that the information would be > given to her without republication rights Our great IC (SG) ducked > this (closely argued) issue while disposing of the 2nd Appeal. > > PS: If you wish to test the proposition, I can file an OSA complaint > against you :-) > > Sarbajit > > --- In [email protected] <mailto:rti_india%40yahoogroups.com>, > ESGINDIA <e...@...> wrote: > > > > Dear All > > > > I am sharing a response to a Press Conference we held recently > > highlighting the very weak technical and work safety issues in the > > Bangalore Metro project. THe Press RElease is enclosed. > > > > Subsequently, Mr. Sivasailam, MD, Bangalore Metro has responded to us in > > great detail. and this letter is also enclosed. > > > > I wish to draw the attention of RTI activists to a particular point in > > the response of the MD, wherein we have been threatened with dire action > > if we did not remove the DPR of the Blore Metro from our website: > > www.esgindia.org. This DPR was secured by us under RTI after substantial > > resistance. It must also be shared that we have insisted that such > > documents in all projects are public domain and form a critical > > responsibility for public autorities to disclose per the suo moto > > disclosure provisions of the RTI Act. Please note that a particular > > reference is made of such display of the DPR on our website as violative > > of the copyright of Delhi Metro over these documents, as they were the > > consultants. > > > > Your views on this matter will be deeply appreciated. > > > > Thank you > > > > Leo Saldanha > > Environment Support Group > > www.esigndia.org > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > > Subject: FW: Press Release: STOP WORK AND REVIEW BANGALORE METRO DESIGN > > AND SAFETY ASPECTS - Some minor corrections please - reg > > Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 17:58:22 +0530 > > From: MDBMRC <sivasai...@...> > > To: <e...@...> > > > > > > > > Sir, > > > > 1. In Para 3, below for the words `Please rest assured that it is done > > by the best in business who also proof-checked by very competent design > > engineers' read as `Please rest assured that it is done by the best in > > business which is also proof-checked independently by another set of > > very competent design engineers'. > > > > 2. In para 8, below for the words, `We are sure that you would like to > > be party to such incidents', the words, `We are sure that you would > > _not_ like to be party to such incidents'. > > > > N Sivasailam > > > > MD BMRCL > > > > *From:* MDBMRC [mailto:sivasai...@...] > > *Sent:* Thursday, August 06, 2009 4:24 PM > > *To:* 'e...@...' > > *Subject:* RE: Press Release: STOP WORK AND REVIEW BANGALORE METRO > > DESIGN AND SAFETY ASPECTS > > > > Sir, > > > > Please see the press release below. Para-wise replies are noted below. > > Since I do not have the email addresses of all the persons and lists to > > whom you have sent your press release, We request that you may send this > > response to all the email addresses and email lists to whom you have > > sent your press release and also to the newspapers to whom you have sent > > the press release. I hope it is not asking too much of you considering > > that you are spreading the word about Namma Metro around all for the > > good, we presume. > > > > 3. It is reiterated that the deaths and injuries in all the cases are > > accidental. This is our view based on our detailed internal inquiry by > > expatriate experts and we are confident of defending this view. In all > > the instances, police cases have been registered. Therefore, we can also > > have a final view based on the investigations in these cases. While we > > have given a lot of stress on safety issues, it is unfortunate that such > > accidents have occurred inspite of our best efforts. We invite you to > > visit the sites to appreciate the safety norms at the site and the > > safety understanding by the workers at the site. It is continually on > > the increase and we are doing more. We have stepped the efforts over the > > last three months and it has been well received by the workers. It is > > our constant endeavour to ensure that safety standards are continually > > improved. Your support in creating a congenial environment outside the > > work area particularly in CMH road and RV Road will help. We have done > > our bit and continue to do so, by improving roads in some stretches > > where it is possible for us to do so without becoming a burden on the > > project, co-ordinating with BWSSB to install new lines, encouraging > > planting of saplings etc. Your suggestions on how to improve matters in > > Namma Metro working short of stopping the Metro work will help the cause > > of the public work. > > > > 4. It is wrong to state that the reinforcement structure collapsed. It > > bent and was restored for carrying on the work further. It is surprising > > that you continue to be unaware of it. This was reported by all the > > papers that carried the news of the reinforcement structure bending. > > Selective appreciation of events can do more harm than good and tends to > > indicate a bias. Presently, we are awaiting re-confirmation by testing > > of the material strength of the rods before we go ahead. Preliminary > > site enquiries indicate that the cause of bending is because of adoption > > of improper techniques by the site workers and site supervisory failure > > in following the correct sequence of methods. All such incidents are > > inquired and this one too will be inquired in detail and lessons learnt > > though prima-facie lessons are quite clear to us regarding the > > importance of following the sequencing of works correctly which the site > > workers and supervisors should not alter. > > > > 5. The design of the structure including reinforcements is correct, > > proper and adequate. The design contract is independent of construction > > contract and the design incorporates the heavy construction loads as > > well. We are confident of our designs. Please rest assured that it is > > done by the best in business who also proof-checked by very competent > > design engineers. > > > > 6. BMRCL takes responsibility for all the designs and construction works > > at all the work sites as the Principal Employer. BMRCL will not shirk > > its responsibility and it will do whatever it can to ensure that our > > structures are designed well and constructed well. We have in place a > > good system of quality assurance. There is a requirement to compile test > > reports for the commissioning of any line and BMRCL is compliant with > > the requirement. The design of structures in Namma Metro is based on the > > soil and strata of Bangalore. Designs cannot be copied verbatim as > > implied in the press release. The design is to be done based on the > > operational loads and also the construction loads. These aspects have > > been taken into account in respect of every design of all structures. > > The comments made in your Press Release in respect of Delhi Metro is > > based on selective information since it does not indicate the response > > of Delhi Metro and we have reason to believe that your press release > > castigating DMRC may be biased and prejudiced. Further the CAG report is > > on a subject matter that does not relate to Bangalore Metro and hence > > your application of the same to Namma Metro by analogy is cleared > > indicative of your prejudiced attitude to both the institutions. > > Bangalore Metro's designs are designed independent of Delhi Metro > > designs since the loading conditions are different. The Designs are > > independently done by experienced designers and proof checked by > > international consultants who have substantial experience in the works. > > The project is monitored based on a Baseline program agreed at the > > beginning of the contract. There are no compulsions in Namma Metro to > > beat any deadlines. The revised deadline for the opening of Reach 1 is > > Dec 2010 and is realistic. Kindly recall the criticism that Namma Metro > > is about 9 months late since the original deadline was March 2010. We > > have not revised our deadline to March 2010 since in our opinion it will > > not be prudent/possible to do so except with substantial speeding up of > > civil works that may compromise safety and quality. Hence the Board of > > Namma Metro has consciously decided to stick to the Dec 2010 schedule > > and try to achieve it without sacrificing safety and quality. The > > apprehensions about Delhi Metro and Namma Metro Designs of structures is > > misplaced and based on misinformation or bias. > > > > 7. Yes, it is true that Mr Ramesh sought certain information under RTI > > act. We have provided him with a reply. He has remedies under the act if > > he is aggrieved. It is not clear how the ESG is advocating his cause and > > concluding that we are in the wrong. BMRCL is a law-abiding organization > > and will do everything lawfully. It has also the right to protect its > > commercial interests in accordance with law and ESG has no locus standi > > to advise, counsel or castigate BMRCL regarding the manner in which it > > should be provide information under the Act. We genuinely believe that > > Mr Ramesh is not entitled to the information he has sought it has been > > done so by a written endorsement and if corrected by a superior > > authority under the Act, we will abide by it. Mr Ramesh even resorted to > > the gimmick of staging a dharna before our office instead of seeking > > redress under the Act to which he is entitled but which was not the > > course adopted by him. It is surprising that ESG has not stand on the > > extra-legal methods resorted to by the person to force compliance under > > the act without seeking redress under it. As regards making available > > documents to JICA, yes, they are funding the project based on an > > agreement with Government of India and have their conditions for > > funding. On that basis, they are entitled to receive documents of > > certain nature pertaining to the project. > > > > 8. *It is true that you have procured a copy of the DPR under the Right > > to Information Act. It is for your use. Your publishing it on your > > website is a violation of our copyright. You are instructed to > > immediately remove it from your website since it is illegal to publish > > it publicly and we have not permitted you to do so. There are other > > implications from the security aspects of the Metro under which we have > > been advised that sensitive information such as DPRs, concept or > > detailed designs etc of Metro structures may not be published. We > > request you to co-operate. It is not necessary that general citizens > > should be given free access to DPR. It is also possible that your > > benevelonce in providing free access to our DPR is abused by certain > > others both commercially and physically detrimental to our interests > > and that of our citizens. We are sure that you would like to be party to > > such incidents. Kindly appreciate.* > > > > 9. It is not necessary to dwell at length in the Navayuga `PIL' case > > because it has been dismissed at the very first hearing! Do We need to > > dwell into the reasons and provocations for Navayuga to file the PIL > > while being the contractor in the project! It is his responsibility to > > ensure safe construction and therefore he cannot file a PIL on a matter > > in which he is primarily responsible for execution of the contract. On > > his failure to submit a safe working plan for CMH road viaduct > > construction, the work has since been taken away from him for execution > > at his risk and cost. We are aware of the High court instructions in the > > matter and we are following it in letter and spirit. Also the direction > > is equally and more applicable to Nayayuga whose cause you are > > advocating We need to assure you that subsequent to filing of the PIL, > > Navayuga has marginally improved in his safety record as well. > > > > 10. The contractor going to court filing a PIL is a joke and an abuse of > > the process of the court since he is responsible for execution of the > > work in the stretch and he has accepted the contract voluntarily. The > > High Court has rightly dismissed the petition at the very first hearing. > > Your compulsions in taking the side of the contractor who has been > > instrumental in delaying the project works is surprising and intriguing. > > We wish to inform you that we follow the highest standards of integrity > > in our organization and work sincerely. There are more than 1000 > > engineers of BMRCL/GC to BMRCL, contractors and technical consultants > > all qualified technical personnel and professionals who are working on > > the project or are associated with it. You are making a mockery of all > > of them by your ill-advised remarks literally shooting of the hip! > > Make no mistake Namma Metro will be there inspite of all prophecies of > > doom. It will be there because most people and institutions sincerely > > believe that we will deliver and that is a solemn promise to the > > citizens of Bangalore including the doubting thomases. It will our > > endeavour to make you believe too. We are an institution and function as > > one and believe in the goal of realizing the dream of Namma Metro for > > Bangaloreans. Encouragement and support will help motivate us but > > misplaced criticism and misplaced views articulated as facts will not > > deter us from our task. Yes, we are also sensitive to criticism and > > comments that are positive as our track record of interacting with > > institutions and courts will testify. > > > > In summary, We wish to inform you that your plea for stopping the Metro > > works is against public interest and your grounds are based on incorrect > > and inadequate understanding and appreciation of facts besides an strong > > undercurrent of prejudice and bias. We request you to play a more > > positive and pro-active role in the construction of Namma Metro through > > constructive engagement not only with Namma Metro but also with a large > > number of reputed institutions and organizations working in partnership > > with Namma Metro at this stage of the project when the entire tendering > > process of selecting institution/contractor-partners is nearing > > completion (95% completed) and this principle is itself based on your > > own philosophy of constructive participation that you so passionately > > advocate. > > > > N Sivasailam > > > > MD BMRCL > > > > *From:* sec_kar-boun...@... > > [mailto:sec_kar-boun...@...] *On Behalf Of *ESGINDIA > > *Sent:* Wednesday, August 05, 2009 5:35 PM > > *To:* esgl...@...; bangalore_iss...@...; > > corporate_l...@...; m...@...; > > sec_...@...; p...@... > > *Subject:* Press Release: STOP WORK AND REVIEW BANGALORE METRO DESIGN > > AND SAFETY ASPECTS > > > > Press Release : 05 August 2009 : Bangalore > > > > *STOP WORK AND REVIEW BANGALORE METRO DESIGN AND SAFETY ASPECTS* > > > > The safety of Bangalore Metro Rail Project has been called to question > > many times over the past couple of years. Several deaths and injuries > > have been the result exposing the poor attention accorded to worker and > > public safety. While some of the causes of death and injury may have > > been accidental, careful scrutiny reveals that there is much more to be > > worried about than to wish away such events as merely accidental. > > > > Two days ago the main reinforcement structure of a Metro pillar > > collapsed on the narrow CMH Road even as it was being mounted. Metro > > officials were quick in dismissing this event as nothing to be alarmed > > about. But such dismissals are only to be expected, when such events are > > the norm and not the exception. > > > > What is frightening about the recent CMH Road event is that the > > reinforcement structure is designed to lend strength to a pillar that > > will carry the static and dynamic load of a section of the elevated > > corridor, and upon which trains will run. As it keeled over and fell > > Metro officials were quick to blame the workers at the site expectedly > > of callousness. Had this happenned once the structure was filled with > > concrete, and then laid over with the heavy slabs, who would they blame > > then? > > > > It is well known that the Bangalore Metro is absolutely modelled on > > lines of the Delhi Metro. Subsequent to the recent damning report of > > Comptroller and Auditor General of India on the systemic and systematic > > failures in ensuring quality work in the Delhi Metro (particularly in > > Phase II), it was imperative for the Karnataka Government to immediately > > stop work and conduct a thorough review of the Bangalore Metro. The CAG > > report significantly has highlighted that there were serious design > > failures in the Metro structures and that the rush to implement that > > project to meet unhealthy deadlines probably contributed to the recent > > disasters during the launching of girders. Rather than meet this very > > unbiased account by a Constitutional authority, BMRCL rushed to do what > > was expected: issue a reassuring statement that all is well with its > > designs. > > > > Bangaloreans deserve better than statements. They deserved proactive and > > verifiable effort that the Metro designs are absolutely beyond any > > doubt. That has simply not happenned because almost all the > > techno-economic details of the project are under wraps on grounds of > > confidentiality. Even former Mayor Mr. P. R. Ramesh was unable to access > > reports that ought to have been part of the public domain. Such details > > are librerally shared in every Metro project across the world, including > > in Japan which substantially finances this project. The irony is that a > > Japanese national could access reports of "Namma Metro" with ease simply > > because they have extended a commercial loan to the project. But we who > > will bear the burden of this mega project for generations simply have no > > access to this very information. > > > > When ESG sought access to the Detailed Project Report of the Bangalore > > Metro, after considerable delay BMRCL parted with the document for a > > very heavy price of Rs. 2,600/-. When enquired why it was not made > > available on the Metro website as part of the /suo moto/ disclosure > > responsibility per the Right to Information Act, BMRCL officials > > extended wishy washy responses. In the wider public interest, ESG has > > now issued the complete DPR of the Bangalore Metro on its website /in > > toto/ (Please check _www.esgindia.org <http://www.esgindia.org/ > <http://www.esgindia.org/>>_). > > > > Lack of transparency is one of the first troubling indicators in project > > implementation. In the Bangalore Metro case, the situation is so > > alarming that M/s Navayuga Constructions implementing the CMH Road > > section filed a PIL against BMRCL in the High Court of Karnataka > > claiming it was impossible to ensure safety of the structures given the > > narrow right of way available on CMH Road and inability of moving heavy > > equipment. Papers have reported that "Navayuga .... had repeatedly > > warned BMRCL authorities against going ahead with 'segment launch' > > method of construction on CMH Road in Indiranagar as it endangered the > > lives and property of residents and shopkeepers on the road." A more > > critical question raised was if it would at all possible to bring in > > equipment to respond in an emergency such as a train accident > > considering that the right of way was completely consumed by built Metro > > structures? The High Court has disposed this petition with the direction > > to BMRCL to address these safety concerns. > > > > A project contractor going to Court with a PIL to advance safety issues > > is a rare and probably unprecedented step. Less than a fortnight of the > > High Court's decision, the CMH Road pillar has collapsed, and the worry > > now is how to retrieve the reinforcement structure? Once this is done, > > the question will always remain if the design is at fault. Sure an > > enquiry has been ordered by BMRCL, but how much can we trust such > > in-house enquiries in light of the rather poor worksite management and > > safety record of BMRCL? > > > > Consider these "accidents": > > > > · In simple tasks such as bringing down buildings in the way of the > > Metro, there have been at least three reported accidents that have > > claimed 2 lives and injured 4 workers. > > > > · A Metro pillar also caught fire! > > > > · A JCB executing work collapsed on CMH Road thankfully not toppling > > onto the neighbouring building. > > > > · Another JCB backed up on M. G. Road and killed an unfortunate worker. > > > > A barricade crashed onto a car on Old Madras Road, and the driver was > > fortunate to escape. > > > > And these are instances when less then 20% of the superstructure of > > Phase I is being built, and that too in the past year alone. > > > > The human rights record of BMRCL has also been terribly found wanting. > > M/s Nagarjuna Constructions implementing the southern reach of the Metro > > was caught employing child labour. It was only because of the > > intervention of ESG, Hasiru Usiru and the Karnataka Child Welfare > > Committee that one of the three children employed was rescued and > > rehabilitated. Shockingly, no criminal action was at all initiated > > against the contractor, despite tall claims that such action would > follow. > > > > Clearly such instances should have caused a lot of alarm in the > > Government and the Legislature. However, there has been little or no > > discussion at all on such critical failures. For a structure that is > > likely to remain in Bangalore for over a century, the spate of what are > > claimed to be "accidents" does not at all build confidence in the wide > > public that all is well with the Bangalore Metro project. > > > > Keeping this in view, and the need to ensure such a massive project is > > beyond any doubt on the issue of safety (especially considering that it > > is largely built on elevated structures), it is absolutely essential > > that the Government of Karnataka takes steps for immediate and > > corrective action. > > > > *We, therefore, demand that the Government must institute an Independent > > Commission of Public Enquiry into the design and worksite safety issues > > of the Bangalore Metro. Pending this enquiry, ongoing work on the > > project must be stopped.* > > > > *We demand such action is essential because it is critical in the wider > > public interest and the interest of future generations to get this > > project absolutely right. Rather than awfully wrong.* > > > > Justice M. F. Saldanha > > > > Former Judge of the High Court of Karnataka > > > > > > > > Ms. Premila Nesargi > > > > Senior Advocate > > > > Leo F. Saldanha > > > > Coordinator > > > > Environment Support Group > > > > > > > > Vinay Sreenivasa > > > > Volunteer > > > > Hasiru Usiru > > > > For further details and information, please contact Ms. Divya > Ravindranath: > > > > *Environment Support Group ®* > > > > 1572, 36^th Cross, 100 Feet Ring Road, Banashankari II Stage, Bangalore > > 560070 > > > > Tel: 91-80-26713559/26713560/26713561 Voice/Fax: 91-80-26713316 > > > > Email: _...@... <mailto:e...@...>_ or > > _esgin...@... <mailto:esgin...@...>_ Web: _www.esgindia.org > > <http://www.esgindia.org <http://www.esgindia.org>>_ > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Yahoo! 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