> I think the thread illustrates a bit more impartially how this functionality
> can be confusing and limiting. Sven doesn't get why AR works this way, while
> I argue that it's the only reasonable for it to work.  The result that it
> provides is not intuitive, so the user has to fully understand the
> behind-the-scenes JOINs anyway.  Why not force them to write out the JOINs
> for their conditions manually?  It still requires the same level of
> understanding, but at least it's more transparent.

I think I see where you're coming from for the :conditions on
:include.  In fact I've worked around this exact issue with something
criminal like:

has_many :permissions
has_many :hax_permissions, :class_name=>"Permission"

Whatever.find(:all, :include=>:hax_permissions,
:conditions=>"permissions.group_id IN (?" ...

Otherwise :permissions isn't a full collection.

If you have time / ability to jump into #rails-contrib, I think this
will go a bunch quicker :)
-- 
Cheers

Koz

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