The thing that's got worse is having to write different code for associations vs. relations. Currently #all will behave exactly the same way on both, which is very useful because you can write code on a model class that works the same way whether it's working on a global scope or just an association.
BTW, the per-request caching mechanism is query caching, which is different to the loadedness caching that associations do, which is the reason to_a is not a consistent replacement for #all, and why I want at least a method that always does a query (#query, for example). The query caching mechanism has other effects but it always returns a fresh set of objects and is also only on when you expect it, so it is easier to control. On 28/02/2013, at 18:19 , Jarrett Meyer <[email protected]> wrote: > http://edgeguides.rubyonrails.org/association_basics.html#controlling-caching > > It looks like clearing the cache and going to the DB is quite easy. I don't > believe your statement is accurate that you can't force a fresh, enumerated > query. And the cache is reset per request, which is a very short time. The > only thing I can think of that would require this kind of functionality is a > database trigger or other out-of-sequence activity. > > > On Feb 27, 2013, at 11:38 PM, Will Bryant <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Hi Jarrett, >> >> As per previous emails, the problem is that you can't now force it to do a >> query using any particular method. Associations will cache if you enumerate >> them and so will not behave in that simple way. >> >> Yes we have tests and yes it does show that this kind of change breaks >> things. That's why I'm complaining. >> >> Cheers, >> Will >> >> >> On 28/02/2013, at 15:16 , Jarrett Meyer <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Most other "enterprise-y" languages (esp. Java+Hibernate, .NET+NHibernate, >>> .NET+Entity Framework) reinforce deferred execution of queries: the query >>> is not executed until it is enumerated. This is now the exact same behavior >>> as those platforms. >>> >>> Calling .sum() on an association, before you've enumerated, will alter the >>> query to perform a SELECT SUM(...). Obviously, this fails on anything that >>> doesn't exist in the database. If you want to .sum() in memory, you must >>> enumerate the collection first (calling .ToArray() in .NET will do this). I >>> don't know if the author of this deferred execution has experience with >>> these other ORM's, but the behavior is now identical. >>> >>> Employee.all vs. Employee.all.to_a is not that big of a deal. And you >>> should expect breaking changes with a major version number. That's why your >>> code is covered by tests, right? >>> >>> Signed, >>> An-ex-.NET-developer-turned-Rubyist >>> >>> -- >>> Jarrett Meyer >>> Email: [email protected] >>> Web: JarrettMeyer.com >>> Twitter: @jarrettmeyer >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 6:09 PM, Will Bryant <[email protected]> wrote: >>> That's better than nothing, but #all returns a relation now, which is half >>> the problem (like when you need to sum methods not columns, for eg.). >>> >>> >>> On 28/02/2013, at 12:00 , Duncan Beevers <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Or all(true) >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 4:25 PM, Will Bryant <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> On 28/02/2013, at 11:17 , Jon Leighton <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> > #reload will always run the query. >>>> > >>>> > If I'm misunderstanding the use case please provide some examples. >>>> >>>> Hmm. But you can't run reload on a scope to get an array - it returns a >>>> relation, which as per previous emails doesn't behave the same. >>>> >>>> So are you saying we should use .reload.to_a everywhere instead of #all? >>>> >>>> That really seems like a worse API than #all and this is a very common >>>> operation. Is it really worth changing #all to be nearly useless and have >>>> no direct to do that? >>>> >>>> Could we at least have a method that does this, say "query"? >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>> "Ruby on Rails: Core" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>> email to [email protected]. >>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-core?hl=en. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>> "Ruby on Rails: Core" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>> email to [email protected]. >>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-core?hl=en. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "Ruby on Rails: Core" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email to [email protected]. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-core?hl=en. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "Ruby on Rails: Core" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email to [email protected]. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-core?hl=en. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Ruby on Rails: Core" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-core?hl=en. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> >> > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Ruby on Rails: Core" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-core?hl=en. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Core" group. 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