On 12/31/2013 01:43 PM, Till Schneidereit wrote:
Without responding to everything in your message, two quick points:
For being written by someone afraid 'of the terrible level of violence, in
[your] view, present in the programming "community"', your message is
awfully condecending and dismissive of a huge amount of hard work by
curageous people. The Rust designers have made it very clear that they
don't share your views on how much the language should differ from
pre-existing widely-used languages. You seem to say that that necessarily
means that they're conformist cowards who only do their work for 'fame,
honour, status, money, power' or '[t]o mentally masturbate on the idea of
having made something "sucessful"'. Would you say that to someone's face?
If not (actually, regardless), please don't do it on a mailing list.
As for your main argument (as far as I understand it), that languages are
designed too timidly, I quite simply don't believe that you don't see the
argument that a language might not be adopted if it breaks with too many
conventions that people have gotten used to. You're saying that you'll
gladly try out languages that break with everything you learned before.
That's commendable, but not something a language designer can expect of
everyone in their target audience. Now you might disagree with the strategy
of introducing enough change to make the language clearly superior to its
competition, while keeping the learning curve bearable. Please don't
dismiss it as "madness" you don't even need to argue against, though.
You seem to reply to another message than mine. Or maybe it is (as often) my
failure in expressing my thought.
"two quick points", as you say
* This post is not about Rust, not at all in fact: it's sent to a mailing list
about PL-design in general. I indicate (at start of post) that the reason for a
copy here is the reflexion "is inspired by a thread" on rust-dev. (Also, I
imagined some here may be interested.)
* I don't have the impression to give the impression to be condescending or
whatnot; in fact, instead of excluding myself (and though it was not done in
purpose, rather just an illustration) I explicitely state not beeing brave enough.
Anyway, anyone may receive anything as they will.
Denis
PS: As for the quotes you take, indeed they look agressive out of context. But
they are questions in the original text and, at least I hope so, they mean
something different in context, and with a different spirit as the one you expose.
Also, again, this post is not about Rust's development (if it were so, I would
not be interested in this language... why do I follow the mailing list rust-dev
if I do not regard it as a good project?)
Finally, since you attack me on this point: yes, I speak that way to people face
to face (and they don't take it as you do, rather most people are grateful when
one speaks truly; never mind).
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