> > From: "edwardloizeaux" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>" > the > CUT locos were P1 instead of P2. Minor detail, perhaps, but quite a > few modifications were made when the NYC acquired them.
"Gary Chudzinski" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > was thinking the P2 > was the larger electric, which the Cleveland Union Terminal turned > over to GCT. It had the same basic wheel configuration as the GG-1. Gary... Yep, that is the beast!! While with the CUT it was designated "P-1". When the NYC acquired them, the first one converted (in NYC shops) was designated "P-2a". After testing, the remaining units were converted (by GE in GE shops) and designated "P-2b" and assigned to operate out of Grand Central Terminal up to Harmon normally pulling only passenger trains. The P-2 was the NYC's largest electric "motor" and I remember it from my childhood. Some of the more visible changes included removal of the large pantographs, installation of a tiny pantograph, addition of outside third rail shoes and accompanying boxes and cables, change of voltage (not visible, but important) to be operated on, removal of the MU stand(s) on the end platforms, modifications to louvers/windows on the sides, roof detail changed considerably, end pilots redesigned, removal of class lights. The class lights apparently were made removable and stored inside the loco unless in use at night. CUT photos always showed them, NYC photos never showed them. Likewise with windshield wipers -- they were stored inside and only used when needed. Thus, they never show in photos. I am sure there were other, less noticeable changes, but only Dick Karnes would know about that since he is a certified juice-jack and I am not. I just talk a lot. > Tried to talk several importers on many occasions to do that baby, but to no avail. Gads.....we are like twins. I too have offered up the idea, but without any luck. Eventually I concluded this loco was so specialized that it would not make a good commercial project for anyone. Plastic, brass, resin, etc. seemed to make no difference. The anticipated sales volume was so small that serious interest could never be obtained from any of the builders/importers/manufacturers witj whom I spoke. So I decided that making one myself was the only way to ever get one. After carefully considering my modeling skills, I realized that also was a pipe dream. But I found someone to help me who has lots of skills. We formed a partnership, of sorts, whereby I do all the research, obtain photos and drawings, purchase commercial parts that are appropriate (like RRM's NYC headlight, and SWM's detail castings, Omnicon's PA drive unit, etc.), and my partner does the actual building. So my P-2s are under way at this time, but I have not physically seen anything yet because this fellow does not live near me. Actually, I have never even met him, but he is a friend of a friend. My fingers are crossed. There is a chance I will bring one to Altoona if they get finished by that time. >Almost bought one from MTH just to have one on the mantle. Geeeeezzzzzzzzz Gary......Are you sure we are not twins? I looked long and hard at that one. But instead bought an Overland O scale brass import of the CUT version to be used as a sample guide by my "partner" since he has never seen this loco before. I can resell the Overland model when all is finished and the net cost to the P-2 project will be zero. I've been told that I might even make a profit on the transaction if I am lucky. Being active on the O SCALE WEST convention staff for several years is finally paying off. Having a three-dimensional model/sample when building something you have never before seen is a great visual aid and well worth the temporary investment. Overland has produced the NYC P-2 in HO, but they are very scarce. I couldn't find any anywhere, but one showed up on eBay several months ago. But my "partner" works mostly in O scale and he preferred the O scale model for his sample. > It's so ugly, it's beautiful! Not only that, but it fits right in with our era (1958 onward for the P-2, 1930-1957 for the P-1), ran with heavyweights, smoothsides, and full scale length Budd cars for lots of variety, pulled a freight at least once (I saw the photo) near the end of it's lifespan, and was truly attractive in the lightening stripe paint scheme. But the other P-2 paint schemes were, in my opinion, rather dull. It was also used by Penn Central for a while with a dull unexciting paint job. Cost reduction and excitement seem to be mutually exclusive. This project has been a real education for me in terms of research and the value of friends. For example, Dick Karnes has some rare erection drawings of this loco which he obtained while in college -- which was almost back before electricity was invented. Yep, they had yellowed and the creases had cracked, etc. But you could see all the information that needed to be seen. The NYC historical society proved to be a bust and would not or could not supply any information at all. I heard rumors about internal disputes and lawsuits and the like and gave up on them after six months of trying. So I turned to the internet not knowing what to expect. Bonanza time!! I posted messages on the various NYC lists -- both Yahoo and others -- and located several fellows who were quite helpful. One guy's father was a NYC electrician who actually worked on the P-2s and had photos and wiring diagrams and operator's (motorman?) manuals, etc. Nice fellow who made copies of what I needed. He even dropped in to visit the layout here on a trip to San Francisco from his home in Texas. Another fellow lives in Los Angeles (practically a neighbor) and, like me, is a transplanted New Yorker from his childhood. Turns out he had about 30 35mm slides of the P-2 including several taken from a high angle which showed all the roof detail. Finding good clear close roof detail photos is darn near impossible, but this fellow had 'em and he had prints made and sold them to me. One fellow had interior photos of the controls and I got copies of them. Unfortunately, the motor and flywheel take up so much room on the inside of the S scale model, that it appears there will not be much interior detail. Oh well, ya cannot win 'em all. So the internet proved to be very helpful indeed and populated with a bunch of really nice guys. I then purchased all the obvious S scale brass detail parts I could find. River Raisin, SouthWind, Microscale (decals), BTS, NWSL, Kent Singer, and some others all made a few bucks on this project. Then came the hard part, the GE logo on the side of the loco. Turns out that one of my HO buddies knew of a website with the era-appropriate GE logo on it. Another On3 friend downloaded that logo into his computer, resized it, and printed it out on decal paper, and -- Lo! -- the P-2 loco will have the correct GE logo in addition to HO lettering and O scale numbers and an S scale red oval. This was enough to drive me nutz, but I am almost there anyway so it didn't take much. All told, I spent probably 18 months and a few hundred dollars gathering parts, photos, drawings, sample model, internet contacts, etc. before the physical construction even started. Not to mention the assistance of perhaps 20 other people -- some of whom I have known for 30 years and others I have never met in person. Kind of a strange experience in many ways. And I don't have a darn thing to show for it at this point in time because it has all been shipped off to my so-called "partner". But maybe in Altoona...... I could run it on the S scale horse shoe curve just to show those Pennsy guys what a really pretty loco looks like. I mean, really, can you imagine a PRR diesel painted dirt brown? How dull can you get? Well some PRRs were that nice green, so not all is lost. Hopefully, this diatribe on the challenges of building a unique model in S scale will prove helpful to some other soul contemplating something similar. I am sure Jim Kindraka and Don Thompson and Jettie Padgett and Bill Wade and Ron Bashista and numerous others have all had many many similar experiences. But this is my first shot at it and I found it wearing, frustrating, challenging, and exhilarating all at the same time. What a way to make a buck in a business. I couldn't do this for a living. Thank goodness for those other guys. Treat 'em with respect and stop complaining about the missing rivet. Happy New Year to you all. Remember to come to Altoona and watch my P-2b run around a scale layout somewhere (hopefully at the convention site) and see it outpull PRR's finest which won't hold a candle to it. Do I brag too much? Sure, that is part of the game. Gotta bring those PRR fellas down to the level of the watery route once in a while. It is good for them to learn humility -- whatever that is. :>) Take care now....Ed L. Change your membership, change your message settings, use our CALENDAR, view shared files or photos, view the list archives, GO TO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Scale/ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Scale/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
