On Dec 3, 2007 10:33 PM, Robert Bradshaw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Dec 3, 2007, at 10:14 PM, Nils Bruin wrote: > > > On Dec 3, 9:55 pm, Robert Bradshaw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > [...] > >> In principle it should be able to download the necessary jars without > >> the user having to install anything (beyond Java itself). This is why > >> the initial download is so large. Obviously there are robustness > >> issues. Also, it should be possible to install the necessary jars and > >> a lightweight version of the applet could then be used, and jar > >> caching needs to improve too. > > [...] > > The thing is - It's not just a matter of jar-files. The java3d install > > process drops 2 library files in place: > > creating: lib/ > > creating: lib/i386/ > > inflating: lib/i386/libj3dcore-ogl.so > > inflating: lib/i386/libj3dcore-ogl-cg.so > > creating: lib/ext/ > > inflating: lib/ext/vecmath.jar > > inflating: lib/ext/j3dcore.jar > > inflating: lib/ext/j3dutils.jar > > You can't possibly expect to be able to ship those over to the > > browser. Therefore, the instructions should be very clear about the > > fact that one actually has to install 3d *client-side* to get nice > > graphics. > > Actually, that is the point of gluegen-rt.jar--it lets one ship > native code (so/dll/dylib) libraries within the jars themselves, and > why there has to be singed code involved. Does the 4x4 applet still > work for you if you uninstall java3d? > > > Given that people already have to install java and fonts, I > > don't think that's too much of a penalty. > > Java is already installed on many machines, and it still works > (though not as pretty) without the fonts. If the user is able to > install java3d it would make things nicer, but often they can't (e.g. > students using computer labs). > > > Given how well the four-by-four applet behaves inside the browser, I > > think you should try for an inlined applet that gets "enlivened" when > > necessary and "freezes" when it's no longer necessary to be > > responsive. > > This would be optimal. If anyone has any ideas how/when such freezing > should happen, I would love to have a system like that. Another thing > to think about is currently is shows a (higher quality) ray-traced > image from Tachyon, which would be nice to keep around.
Just a comment -- I initially thought that getting the java3d embedded in the browser window was critical and super important. After playing with making actually plots, I now am not at all convinced of this. With a popup window it's very nice because you can resize it, have controls on it, etc. Anyway, I think it's much more important to start *using* these 3d graphics, building on them, getting more people using them as soon as we can, than fixating too much on embedding the applet. Robert -- what do you think we would have to do to go from what you wrote (that is in Sage now), to something we could advertise and that would be imported by default, and which we could start building on further? -- William --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://sage.scipy.org/sage/ and http://modular.math.washington.edu/sage/ -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
