The power series method would apply to any polynomial whose constant
term is a square (or rather, whose lowest degree monomial has the form
(square coefficient)*(even power of x).  Viewed as a power series such
a thing is always a square, as a simple induction constructs a square
root.  We already have this:

sage: R.<x>=PowerSeriesRing(QQ)
sage: f=R(1+2*x+3*x^2)
sage: f.sqrt()
1 + x + x^2 - x^3 + 1/2*x^4 + 1/2*x^5 - 3/2*x^6 + 3/2*x^7 + 3/8*x^8 -
29/8*x^9 + 43/8*x^10 - 11/8*x^11 - 155/16*x^12 + 325/16*x^13 -
215/16*x^14 - 393/16*x^15 + 9891/128*x^16 - 10269/128*x^17 -
5901/128*x^18 + 36813/128*x^19 + O(x^20)
sage: g=f^2
sage: g.sqrt()
1 + 2*x + 3*x^2
sage: PolynomialRing(QQ,'X')(g.sqrt().list())
3*X^2 + 2*X + 1

John

2008/8/18 Bill Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
>
>
> On 18 Aug, 17:39, "Joel B. Mohler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> On Monday 18 August 2008 11:44:11 am Bill Hart wrote:
>>
>> > Assuming FLINT is in fact being used for the GCD in Z[x], the
>> > implementation is only "fast" up to degree about 250. It depends on
>> > your definition of fast though. :-) In a later release of FLINT, GCD
>> > will be asymptotically faster, and certainly by degree 1000 will be
>> > many times faster than it currently is.
>>
>> By "fast", I meant faster than my naive implementation of the sqrt.  The ZZ
>> gcd certainly seems fast enough for any problem I'm likely to have in the
>> next 6 months :).  The sage I'm using (3.0.6) is using the flint
>> fmpz_poly_gcd.
>
> OK. That is currently quadratic, but with a low constant. :-)
>
>>
>> > If I'm not mistaken, the linear algebra method is nearly cubic
>> > complexity. The GCD method should be subquadratic (though only just).
>> > The method using power series has the same complexity as Karatsuba
>> > multiplication of polynomials, in terms of ring operations (see papers
>> > of Paul Zimmermann), and the constant can be made very low by use of
>> > the recursive middle product algorithm.
>>
>> My algorithm is most definitely quadratic (as I had already thought from the
>> simple nested for-loops).
>
> Yes I've had a look now, and I think you are right.
>
>> Doubling the degree produces a nearly perfect
>> quadrupling of run-time.  Note that it isn't a linear system of the
>> coefficients and the solution is so obvious that it's easy to find one
>> unknown at a time.  I'm not sure what you are calling the "power series
>> method" -- I wonder if it may be what I'm doing.
>
> No it definitely can't be, since the latter has much better asymptotic
> complexity. I'm simply referring to thinking of the polynomial as a
> power series, then essentially using Newton iteration to compute the
> square root, though there are many variants of this basic idea which
> can cut the implied constant by a very considerable factor.
>
> Another method is to take the logarithm of the power series, multiply
> by 0.5 and then exponentiate.
>
>>
>> > Note that if one requires the square root of an exact square of
>> > polynomials, if one uses the power series method, one only needs to
>> > work to a precision about half the length of the original polynomial
>> > since that is how large the square root will be. I think so anyway,
>> > unless I'm missing something silly here (altogether likely).
>>
>> That makes sense.  If you know that you have a perfect square you only need 
>> to
>> think about half the coefficients of the square input.  Of course, if you
>> want to raise an error when something is not a perfect square, you'll need to
>> test all the coefficients by comparing with the square of your tentative
>> square root.
>>
>
> It depends on how you implement it. As soon as you know one of the
> coefficients is wrong for it to be a square, you can bail out and say
> it isn't. It may not be necessary to jack the precision right up to n
> for that. E.g. suppose n is just below a power of 2 and you use Newton
> iteration to double the number of coefficients each time, you may
> already know by the time you have just passed half way that you don't
> have a square. For that matter, you may know at any time.
>
> It should also be possible to use a multimodular method to check it is
> a square root in time something like n log (nm) where n is the degree
> and m is the largest coefficient. This has a significant chance of
> bailing out early if it isn't a square root and would certainly be
> faster than multiplying out in full. I suspect on average O(1) primes
> are needed on average to check if it isn't a square, and so this gives
> an asymptotic improvement over multimodular multiplication, which
> takes log m primes.
>
> Obviously over a general ring, you have to multiply using classical or
> Karatsuba or multiplication, not all of which needs to be done to get
> some of the coefficients. Of course that is a pointless observation in
> special rings like Z, Z/pZ and Q where you don't have to use these
> algorithms.
>
> And also note you only need a truncated product, since you know
> already the top half of the terms are correct. Asymptotically that
> doesn't save anything, but FLINT saves a small factor doing truncated
> products anyway, since there is less real work to do, even when it
> uses an FFT. You can combine this suggestion with the multimodular
> suggestion.
>
> Another throw away observation is that squaring can be done faster
> than a full product. FLINT does this automatically for sufficiently
> large polynomials, i.e. length > 20 (FLINT 2.0 will do it for all
> polynomials and I've already written some of the code for that). Again
> you can use this with the multimodular and truncated product
> suggestions.
>
> Anyhow, I've just outlined why I won't be doing this in FLINT
> soon. :-) There's actually quite a lot of tricks to go through, and
> there may even be an algorithm for detecting perfect squares which I
> know nothing about.
>
> Bill.
> >
>

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