On Mon, Feb 15, 2016 at 2:50 AM, Dima Pasechnik <dimp...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Mon, Feb 15, 2016 at 1:27 AM, Thierry > <sage-googlesu...@lma.metelu.net> wrote: >> Hi, >> >> On Thu, Feb 11, 2016 at 05:42:55PM -0800, William Stein wrote: >>> Hi Sage Developers, >>> >>> Can somebody *PLEASE* volunteer to move trac.sagemath.org and >>> wiki.sagemath.org to a VM on GCE and maintain it for a while? >> >> I already volonteered for this so i guess it is useless to answer again. >> >> Actually, the following is currently done: >> - contact people working on ask.sagemath.org and mmarco (who set up >> letsencrypt for the wiki), most seemed to be in as well (+dimpase now) >> - ask for 2 fresh VM to my university: >> http://sagewiki.lipn.univ-paris13.fr/ >> http://sagetrac.lipn.univ-paris13.fr/ > > This would seem to imply that noone outside Paris 13 would be able to log in > to these VMs, or one would be at mercy of often unpredictable university > administration in this regard. > My experience with French universities is that they are often not at all happy > to give meaningful computer access to me as an official visitor, them > allowing arbitrary people having root access on their computers sounds > very unusual. > In this sense choice of GCE seems to make much better sense.
Thierry -- many thanks for getting a backup setup and doing work on this. I really appreciate your work. I agree with Dima though. We will host on GCE. I've already setup the GCE project and added Dima, I'm willing to pay for it indefinitely, and I can add numerous people to the project from all over the world, and they will have full access. By hosting on GCE, we get a lot of advantages beyond just making it easy for any project member to add other admins. For example, it is very, very easy to make snapshots of disk images (and/or tarballs) that are globally distributed. It's also easier for us to scale up or down or move the geographic location of the servers. Thierry -- I'm also happy with adding you if you can send me an @gmail.com address (and confirm that you setup 2-factor auth on it). However, if you have a fundamental opposition to using any Google technology (your email is "sage-googlesucks@..."), then I understand, and will work to find other support. William (wst...@gmail.com) > > >> - work on understanding the existing setup and try to reproduce a separate >> working environment on a personal VM (dpkg -l, debsums, diff, and all >> the like) with nonduplicated tools between services (e.g. apache+nginx, >> mysql+postgres,...), wiki is almost done, there are still things to >> understand for git/trac, i might have to ask some questions later. >> >> Note that the wiki (trac as well) runs Ubuntu 12/04 and according to the >> welcome message of the wiki: >> >> Your current Hardware Enablement Stack (HWE) is no longer supported >> since 2014-08-07. Security updates for critical parts (kernel and >> graphics stack) of your system are no longer available. >> >> As nothing is documented, it seems dangerous to just upgrade the >> production VM > > IMHO it's inviting trouble to post this in a open forum, do you see why? > >> >> I think the current situation is the consequence of the kind of >> "ultimatum" that is sent in such situation. While it looks easier to ask >> students to do the job, or developpers to quick-and-dirty fix when some >> problem happens, this costs actually a lot more time to the people that >> eventually do the job. When ask.sagemath.org went down, i personally spent >> a few days to just figure out how were the things configured. This kind of >> archeology wastes way more time than a serious documented installation >> from the beginning (at least it is more frustrating). >> >>> I've setup a complete Google compute engine project specifically for >>> this and I'll pay for this indefinitely. The project has a machine on >>> it with ssh keys that can ssh to the root account of trac.sagemath.org >>> and wiki.sagemath.org. I can easily add anybody with a Google >>> account to this project (though I only want to add people that at >>> least enable 2-factor auth, since you can waste a lot of money if you >>> get hacked). >>> >>> Why move to GCE from UW? (1) the machines at UW are not backed up at >>> all! -- I assumed a certain student had them backed up, but nope; in >>> fact, we can't even ssh into the VM host right now (obviously, I could >>> get physical access). (2) With GCE it's trivially to snapshot the >>> whole VM's hundreds of times for very, very cheap, and things are very >>> easy to scale, and every person who I add to the project has full >>> access to everything through a web browser. It's just vastly better. >> >> I am not sure the arguments are related to the kind of hosting: it is more >> about setting up scheduled backups! Having physical access to the machines >> and having direct contact with the sysadmins can be very handy in some >> circumstances too. > > well, see above. It appears to severely limit the range of people who have any > access to the systems at all. > > Dima > >> >> Moreover, the previous instance of ask.sagemath.org was hosted on GCE as >> well, and i remember we finally had to move to a more permanent place at >> Niles university (OSU), which is definitely more stable. >> >> As in the "emergency" thread in may 2015, i asked to my lab and it is OK >> to host those two servers, and they went just set up. I asked for similar >> performance than the existing VM's, it seems they are lacking some RAM >> right now but i guess we could ask for more when needed. >> >> I did a quick backup (though not recurrent) of trac and wiki so that we >> should not lose much in case of crash. >> >> What is the deadline to leave UW for git/trac/wiki ? I will be almost >> completely offline for the next 3 days, moreover i guess it is better to >> have some time to do things collectively and documented, or we will face >> the same issue again and again. >> >> Ciao, >> Thierry >> >> >>> The other option is that we move *everything* to Github. I think >>> that would be way too disruptive to do right now. >>> >>> -- William >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "sage-devel" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. >>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the >> Google Groups "sage-devel" group. >> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/sage-devel/ed_ya-d-k_E/unsubscribe. >> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to >> sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "sage-devel" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- William (http://wstein.org) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. 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