On Sun, Sep 24, 2023 at 5:53 PM John H Palmieri <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> I've already tried uninstalling and reinstalling every homebrew package, and 
> it didn't help.
I meant removing the whole /opt/homebrew/ and reinstalling homebrew
from scratch.


> I've also been doing "make distclean" and "./configure" in between attempts.
>
> I'm confused about your comment about meson_python: I don't think that Sage 
> ordinarily uses a system package of this (except on gentoo?), so it always 
> builds its own. It is using the homebrew installation of meson. I do not have 
> the homebrew meson-python package.

It is (or going to) be available with ./configure --enable-system-site-packages
(after https://github.com/sagemath/sage/pull/36256 and
https://github.com/sagemath/sage/pull/36276)

>
> On Sunday, September 24, 2023 at 3:28:22 AM UTC-7 Dima Pasechnik wrote:
>>
>> both meson and meson_python may potentially come from the system (homebrew 
>> in your case).
>> Make sure they are up to date, and you don't have these packages installed 
>> in Sage.
>> And run ./configure
>>
>> Perhaps the whole homebrew must be reinstated after an OS update, too.
>>
>> On Sun, 24 Sept 2023, 03:07 John H Palmieri, <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Building Sage's own gfortran worked to build scipy (and this is an argument 
>>> to keep the gfortran package around, by the way).
>>>
>>> Alternatively, building all of scipy's dependencies and then using `./sage 
>>> --python3 -m pip install scipy` also seems to have worked. I then "touch"ed 
>>> the appropriate file to convince Sage that scipy had built, and the rest of 
>>> the build succeeded, except for some extra warnings during doctests: "ld: 
>>> warning: duplicate -rpath [...SAGE_ROOT/local/lib...] ignored"
>>>
>>> On Saturday, September 23, 2023 at 3:59:40 PM UTC-7 John H Palmieri wrote:
>>>>
>>>> If by "they" you mean scipy, then: I have no problems building scipy on 
>>>> another OS X machine: an Intel machine running OS X 13.5.2 (rather than 
>>>> 13.6). "xcode-select --version" reports the same for both machines, but I 
>>>> don't know how informative this is. "gfortran --version" says
>>>>
>>>> GNU Fortran (Homebrew GCC 13.2.0) 13.2.0
>>>> Copyright (C) 2023 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
>>>> This is free software; see the source for copying conditions.  There is NO
>>>> warranty; not even for MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.
>>>>
>>>> and this is the one that scipy finds. On the M2 machine, Sage's scipy 
>>>> built back in August with earlier versions of the OS (probably 13.5.2) and 
>>>> command-line tools and gfortran (13.1.0).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Saturday, September 23, 2023 at 3:34:29 PM UTC-7 Dima Pasechnik wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> do they even support gcc/gfortran 13?
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, 23 Sept 2023, 23:04 John H Palmieri, <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Same result if I do `pip3 install scipy --no-binary scipy` (another of 
>>>>>> their suggested ways of building from source). I guess something is 
>>>>>> broken with my fortran compiler, but I don't know how to troubleshoot it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Saturday, September 23, 2023 at 2:35:52 PM UTC-7 John H Palmieri 
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It didn't work for me. At least directly attempting a scipy build left 
>>>>>>> an intact log file. Any clues about what's broken on this machine?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Build started at 2023-09-23T14:31:26.723020
>>>>>>> Main binary: /Users/palmieri/Downloads/scipy-1.11.2/venv/bin/python3
>>>>>>> Build Options: 
>>>>>>> -Dprefix=/Users/palmieri/Downloads/scipy-1.11.2/build-install
>>>>>>> Python system: Darwin
>>>>>>> The Meson build system
>>>>>>> Version: 1.2.1
>>>>>>> Source dir: /Users/palmieri/Downloads/scipy-1.11.2
>>>>>>> Build dir: /Users/palmieri/Downloads/scipy-1.11.2/build
>>>>>>> Build type: native build
>>>>>>> Project name: SciPy
>>>>>>> Project version: 1.11.2
>>>>>>> -----------
>>>>>>> Detecting compiler via: `cc --version` -> 0
>>>>>>> stdout:
>>>>>>> Apple clang version 15.0.0 (clang-1500.0.40.1)
>>>>>>> Target: arm64-apple-darwin22.6.0
>>>>>>> Thread model: posix
>>>>>>> InstalledDir: /Library/Developer/CommandLineTools/usr/bin
>>>>>>> -----------
>>>>>>> Running command: cc -E -dM -
>>>>>>> -----
>>>>>>> -----------
>>>>>>> Detecting linker via: `cc -Wl,--version` -> 1
>>>>>>> stderr:
>>>>>>> ld: unknown options: --version
>>>>>>> clang: error: linker command failed with exit code 1 (use -v to see 
>>>>>>> invocation)
>>>>>>> -----------
>>>>>>> -----------
>>>>>>> Detecting Apple linker via: `cc -Wl,-v` -> 1
>>>>>>> stderr:
>>>>>>> @(#)PROGRAM:ld  PROJECT:dyld-1015.7
>>>>>>> BUILD 18:48:48 Aug 22 2023
>>>>>>> configured to support archs: armv6 armv7 armv7s arm64 arm64e arm64_32 
>>>>>>> i386 x86_64 x86_64h armv6m armv7k armv7m armv7em
>>>>>>> will use ld-classic for: armv6 armv7 armv7s arm64_32 i386 armv6m armv7k 
>>>>>>> armv7m armv7em
>>>>>>> LTO support using: LLVM version 15.0.0 (static support for 29, runtime 
>>>>>>> is 29)
>>>>>>> TAPI support using: Apple TAPI version 15.0.0 (tapi-1500.0.12.3)
>>>>>>> Library search paths:
>>>>>>> /opt/homebrew/opt/primesieve/lib
>>>>>>> /opt/homebrew/opt/bdw-gc/lib
>>>>>>> /opt/homebrew/opt/libpng/lib
>>>>>>> /opt/homebrew/opt/ntl/lib
>>>>>>> /opt/homebrew/opt/bzip2/lib
>>>>>>> /opt/homebrew/opt/readline/lib
>>>>>>> /opt/homebrew/lib
>>>>>>> /usr/local/lib
>>>>>>> Framework search paths:
>>>>>>> ld: Undefined symbols:
>>>>>>>   _main, referenced from:
>>>>>>>       <initial-undefines>
>>>>>>> clang: error: linker command failed with exit code 1 (use -v to see 
>>>>>>> invocation)
>>>>>>> -----------
>>>>>>> Sanity testing C compiler: cc
>>>>>>> Is cross compiler: False.
>>>>>>> Sanity check compiler command line: cc sanitycheckc.c -o 
>>>>>>> sanitycheckc.exe
>>>>>>> Sanity check compile stdout:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----
>>>>>>> Sanity check compile stderr:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----
>>>>>>> Running test binary command:  
>>>>>>> /Users/palmieri/Downloads/scipy-1.11.2/build/meson-private/sanitycheckc.exe
>>>>>>> C compiler for the host machine: cc (clang 15.0.0 "Apple clang version 
>>>>>>> 15.0.0 (clang-1500.0.40.1)")
>>>>>>> C linker for the host machine: cc ld64 1015.7
>>>>>>> -----------
>>>>>>> Detecting linker via: `ar --version` -> 1
>>>>>>> stderr:
>>>>>>> usage:  ar -d [-TLsv] archive file ...
>>>>>>> ar -m [-TLsv] archive file ...
>>>>>>> ar -m [-abiTLsv] position archive file ...
>>>>>>> ar -p [-TLsv] archive [file ...]
>>>>>>> ar -q [-cTLsv] archive file ...
>>>>>>> ar -r [-cuTLsv] archive file ...
>>>>>>> ar -r [-abciuTLsv] position archive file ...
>>>>>>> ar -t [-TLsv] archive [file ...]
>>>>>>> ar -x [-ouTLsv] archive [file ...]
>>>>>>> -----------
>>>>>>> -----------
>>>>>>> Detecting compiler via: `c++ --version` -> 0
>>>>>>> stdout:
>>>>>>> Apple clang version 15.0.0 (clang-1500.0.40.1)
>>>>>>> Target: arm64-apple-darwin22.6.0
>>>>>>> Thread model: posix
>>>>>>> InstalledDir: /Library/Developer/CommandLineTools/usr/bin
>>>>>>> -----------
>>>>>>> Running command: c++ -E -dM -
>>>>>>> -----
>>>>>>> -----------
>>>>>>> Detecting linker via: `c++ -Wl,--version` -> 1
>>>>>>> stderr:
>>>>>>> ld: unknown options: --version
>>>>>>> clang: error: linker command failed with exit code 1 (use -v to see 
>>>>>>> invocation)
>>>>>>> -----------
>>>>>>> -----------
>>>>>>> Detecting Apple linker via: `c++ -Wl,-v` -> 1
>>>>>>> stderr:
>>>>>>> @(#)PROGRAM:ld  PROJECT:dyld-1015.7
>>>>>>> BUILD 18:48:48 Aug 22 2023
>>>>>>> configured to support archs: armv6 armv7 armv7s arm64 arm64e arm64_32 
>>>>>>> i386 x86_64 x86_64h armv6m armv7k armv7m armv7em
>>>>>>> will use ld-classic for: armv6 armv7 armv7s arm64_32 i386 armv6m armv7k 
>>>>>>> armv7m armv7em
>>>>>>> LTO support using: LLVM version 15.0.0 (static support for 29, runtime 
>>>>>>> is 29)
>>>>>>> TAPI support using: Apple TAPI version 15.0.0 (tapi-1500.0.12.3)
>>>>>>> Library search paths:
>>>>>>> /opt/homebrew/opt/primesieve/lib
>>>>>>> /opt/homebrew/opt/bdw-gc/lib
>>>>>>> /opt/homebrew/opt/libpng/lib
>>>>>>> /opt/homebrew/opt/ntl/lib
>>>>>>> /opt/homebrew/opt/bzip2/lib
>>>>>>> /opt/homebrew/opt/readline/lib
>>>>>>> /opt/homebrew/lib
>>>>>>> /usr/local/lib
>>>>>>> Framework search paths:
>>>>>>> ld: Undefined symbols:
>>>>>>>   _main, referenced from:
>>>>>>>       <initial-undefines>
>>>>>>> clang: error: linker command failed with exit code 1 (use -v to see 
>>>>>>> invocation)
>>>>>>> -----------
>>>>>>> Sanity testing C++ compiler: c++
>>>>>>> Is cross compiler: False.
>>>>>>> Sanity check compiler command line: c++ sanitycheckcpp.cc -o 
>>>>>>> sanitycheckcpp.exe
>>>>>>> Sanity check compile stdout:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----
>>>>>>> Sanity check compile stderr:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----
>>>>>>> Running test binary command:  
>>>>>>> /Users/palmieri/Downloads/scipy-1.11.2/build/meson-private/sanitycheckcpp.exe
>>>>>>> C++ compiler for the host machine: c++ (clang 15.0.0 "Apple clang 
>>>>>>> version 15.0.0 (clang-1500.0.40.1)")
>>>>>>> C++ linker for the host machine: c++ ld64 1015.7
>>>>>>> -----------
>>>>>>> Detecting compiler via: `cython -V` -> 0
>>>>>>> stdout:
>>>>>>> Cython version 3.0.2
>>>>>>> -----------
>>>>>>> stderr:
>>>>>>> Cython version 3.0.2
>>>>>>> -----------
>>>>>>> Running compile:
>>>>>>> Working directory:  
>>>>>>> /var/folders/_y/kzsymttn15l00trk8fbjfj880000gn/T/tmp7o4nw2zx
>>>>>>> Code:
>>>>>>>  print("hello world")
>>>>>>> -----------
>>>>>>> Command line: `cython 
>>>>>>> /var/folders/_y/kzsymttn15l00trk8fbjfj880000gn/T/tmp7o4nw2zx/testfile.pyx
>>>>>>>  -o 
>>>>>>> /var/folders/_y/kzsymttn15l00trk8fbjfj880000gn/T/tmp7o4nw2zx/output.exe 
>>>>>>> --fast-fail` -> 0
>>>>>>> stderr:
>>>>>>> /Users/palmieri/Downloads/scipy-1.11.2/venv/lib/python3.11/site-packages/Cython/Compiler/Main.py:384:
>>>>>>>  FutureWarning: Cython directive 'language_level' not set, using '3str' 
>>>>>>> for now (Py3). This has changed from earlier releases! File: 
>>>>>>> /var/folders/_y/kzsymttn15l00trk8fbjfj880000gn/T/tmp7o4nw2zx/testfile.pyx
>>>>>>>   tree = Parsing.p_module(s, pxd, full_module_name)
>>>>>>> -----------
>>>>>>> Cython compiler for the host machine: cython (cython 3.0.2)
>>>>>>> -----------
>>>>>>> Detecting compiler via: `cc --version` -> 0
>>>>>>> stdout:
>>>>>>> Apple clang version 15.0.0 (clang-1500.0.40.1)
>>>>>>> Target: arm64-apple-darwin22.6.0
>>>>>>> Thread model: posix
>>>>>>> InstalledDir: /Library/Developer/CommandLineTools/usr/bin
>>>>>>> -----------
>>>>>>> Running command: cc -E -dM -
>>>>>>> -----
>>>>>>> -----------
>>>>>>> Detecting linker via: `cc -Wl,--version` -> 1
>>>>>>> stderr:
>>>>>>> ld: unknown options: --version
>>>>>>> clang: error: linker command failed with exit code 1 (use -v to see 
>>>>>>> invocation)
>>>>>>> -----------
>>>>>>> -----------
>>>>>>> Detecting Apple linker via: `cc -Wl,-v` -> 1
>>>>>>> stderr:
>>>>>>> @(#)PROGRAM:ld  PROJECT:dyld-1015.7
>>>>>>> BUILD 18:48:48 Aug 22 2023
>>>>>>> configured to support archs: armv6 armv7 armv7s arm64 arm64e arm64_32 
>>>>>>> i386 x86_64 x86_64h armv6m armv7k armv7m armv7em
>>>>>>> will use ld-classic for: armv6 armv7 armv7s arm64_32 i386 armv6m armv7k 
>>>>>>> armv7m armv7em
>>>>>>> LTO support using: LLVM version 15.0.0 (static support for 29, runtime 
>>>>>>> is 29)
>>>>>>> TAPI support using: Apple TAPI version 15.0.0 (tapi-1500.0.12.3)
>>>>>>> Library search paths:
>>>>>>> /opt/homebrew/opt/primesieve/lib
>>>>>>> /opt/homebrew/opt/bdw-gc/lib
>>>>>>> /opt/homebrew/opt/libpng/lib
>>>>>>> /opt/homebrew/opt/ntl/lib
>>>>>>> /opt/homebrew/opt/bzip2/lib
>>>>>>> /opt/homebrew/opt/readline/lib
>>>>>>> /opt/homebrew/lib
>>>>>>> /usr/local/lib
>>>>>>> Framework search paths:
>>>>>>> ld: Undefined symbols:
>>>>>>>   _main, referenced from:
>>>>>>>       <initial-undefines>
>>>>>>> clang: error: linker command failed with exit code 1 (use -v to see 
>>>>>>> invocation)
>>>>>>> -----------
>>>>>>> Sanity testing C compiler: cc
>>>>>>> Is cross compiler: False.
>>>>>>> Sanity check compiler command line: cc sanitycheckc.c -o 
>>>>>>> sanitycheckc.exe
>>>>>>> Sanity check compile stdout:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----
>>>>>>> Sanity check compile stderr:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----
>>>>>>> Running test binary command:  
>>>>>>> /Users/palmieri/Downloads/scipy-1.11.2/build/meson-private/sanitycheckc.exe
>>>>>>> C compiler for the build machine: cc (clang 15.0.0 "Apple clang version 
>>>>>>> 15.0.0 (clang-1500.0.40.1)")
>>>>>>> C linker for the build machine: cc ld64 1015.7
>>>>>>> -----------
>>>>>>> Detecting linker via: `ar --version` -> 1
>>>>>>> stderr:
>>>>>>> usage:  ar -d [-TLsv] archive file ...
>>>>>>> ar -m [-TLsv] archive file ...
>>>>>>> ar -m [-abiTLsv] position archive file ...
>>>>>>> ar -p [-TLsv] archive [file ...]
>>>>>>> ar -q [-cTLsv] archive file ...
>>>>>>> ar -r [-cuTLsv] archive file ...
>>>>>>> ar -r [-abciuTLsv] position archive file ...
>>>>>>> ar -t [-TLsv] archive [file ...]
>>>>>>> ar -x [-ouTLsv] archive [file ...]
>>>>>>> -----------
>>>>>>> -----------
>>>>>>> Detecting compiler via: `c++ --version` -> 0
>>>>>>> stdout:
>>>>>>> Apple clang version 15.0.0 (clang-1500.0.40.1)
>>>>>>> Target: arm64-apple-darwin22.6.0
>>>>>>> Thread model: posix
>>>>>>> InstalledDir: /Library/Developer/CommandLineTools/usr/bin
>>>>>>> -----------
>>>>>>> Running command: c++ -E -dM -
>>>>>>> -----
>>>>>>> -----------
>>>>>>> Detecting linker via: `c++ -Wl,--version` -> 1
>>>>>>> stderr:
>>>>>>> ld: unknown options: --version
>>>>>>> clang: error: linker command failed with exit code 1 (use -v to see 
>>>>>>> invocation)
>>>>>>> -----------
>>>>>>> -----------
>>>>>>> Detecting Apple linker via: `c++ -Wl,-v` -> 1
>>>>>>> stderr:
>>>>>>> @(#)PROGRAM:ld  PROJECT:dyld-1015.7
>>>>>>> BUILD 18:48:48 Aug 22 2023
>>>>>>> configured to support archs: armv6 armv7 armv7s arm64 arm64e arm64_32 
>>>>>>> i386 x86_64 x86_64h armv6m armv7k armv7m armv7em
>>>>>>> will use ld-classic for: armv6 armv7 armv7s arm64_32 i386 armv6m armv7k 
>>>>>>> armv7m armv7em
>>>>>>> LTO support using: LLVM version 15.0.0 (static support for 29, runtime 
>>>>>>> is 29)
>>>>>>> TAPI support using: Apple TAPI version 15.0.0 (tapi-1500.0.12.3)
>>>>>>> Library search paths:
>>>>>>> /opt/homebrew/opt/primesieve/lib
>>>>>>> /opt/homebrew/opt/bdw-gc/lib
>>>>>>> /opt/homebrew/opt/libpng/lib
>>>>>>> /opt/homebrew/opt/ntl/lib
>>>>>>> /opt/homebrew/opt/bzip2/lib
>>>>>>> /opt/homebrew/opt/readline/lib
>>>>>>> /opt/homebrew/lib
>>>>>>> /usr/local/lib
>>>>>>> Framework search paths:
>>>>>>> ld: Undefined symbols:
>>>>>>>   _main, referenced from:
>>>>>>>       <initial-undefines>
>>>>>>> clang: error: linker command failed with exit code 1 (use -v to see 
>>>>>>> invocation)
>>>>>>> -----------
>>>>>>> Sanity testing C++ compiler: c++
>>>>>>> Is cross compiler: False.
>>>>>>> Sanity check compiler command line: c++ sanitycheckcpp.cc -o 
>>>>>>> sanitycheckcpp.exe
>>>>>>> Sanity check compile stdout:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----
>>>>>>> Sanity check compile stderr:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----
>>>>>>> Running test binary command:  
>>>>>>> /Users/palmieri/Downloads/scipy-1.11.2/build/meson-private/sanitycheckcpp.exe
>>>>>>> C++ compiler for the build machine: c++ (clang 15.0.0 "Apple clang 
>>>>>>> version 15.0.0 (clang-1500.0.40.1)")
>>>>>>> C++ linker for the build machine: c++ ld64 1015.7
>>>>>>> -----------
>>>>>>> Detecting compiler via: `cython -V` -> 0
>>>>>>> stdout:
>>>>>>> Cython version 3.0.2
>>>>>>> -----------
>>>>>>> stderr:
>>>>>>> Cython version 3.0.2
>>>>>>> -----------
>>>>>>> Using cached compile:
>>>>>>> Cached command line:  cython 
>>>>>>> /var/folders/_y/kzsymttn15l00trk8fbjfj880000gn/T/tmp7o4nw2zx/testfile.pyx
>>>>>>>  -o 
>>>>>>> /var/folders/_y/kzsymttn15l00trk8fbjfj880000gn/T/tmp7o4nw2zx/output.exe 
>>>>>>> --fast-fail
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Code:
>>>>>>>  print("hello world")
>>>>>>> Cached compiler stdout:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cached compiler stderr:
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> /Users/palmieri/Downloads/scipy-1.11.2/venv/lib/python3.11/site-packages/Cython/Compiler/Main.py:384:
>>>>>>>  FutureWarning: Cython directive 'language_level' not set, using '3str' 
>>>>>>> for now (Py3). This has changed from earlier releases! File: 
>>>>>>> /var/folders/_y/kzsymttn15l00trk8fbjfj880000gn/T/tmp7o4nw2zx/testfile.pyx
>>>>>>>   tree = Parsing.p_module(s, pxd, full_module_name)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cython compiler for the build machine: cython (cython 3.0.2)
>>>>>>> Build machine cpu family: aarch64
>>>>>>> Build machine cpu: aarch64
>>>>>>> Host machine cpu family: aarch64
>>>>>>> Host machine cpu: aarch64
>>>>>>> Target machine cpu family: aarch64
>>>>>>> Target machine cpu: aarch64
>>>>>>> Program python3 found: YES 
>>>>>>> (/Users/palmieri/Downloads/scipy-1.11.2/venv/bin/python3)
>>>>>>> Searching for 'python-3.11' via pkgconfig lookup in LIBPC
>>>>>>> Pkg-config binary for 1 is not cached.
>>>>>>> Pkg-config binary missing from cross or native file, or env var 
>>>>>>> undefined.
>>>>>>> Trying a default Pkg-config fallback at pkg-config
>>>>>>> Found pkg-config: /opt/homebrew/bin/pkg-config (0.29.2)
>>>>>>> Determining dependency 'python-3.11' with pkg-config executable 
>>>>>>> '/opt/homebrew/bin/pkg-config'
>>>>>>> env[PKG_CONFIG_LIBDIR]: 
>>>>>>> /opt/homebrew/opt/[email protected]/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.11/lib/pkgconfig
>>>>>>> env[PKG_CONFIG_PATH]: 
>>>>>>> /opt/homebrew/opt/sqlite/lib/pkgconfig:/opt/homebrew/opt/readline/lib/pkgconfig:/opt/homebrew/opt/openssl/lib/pkgconfig:/opt/homebrew/opt/openblas/lib/pkgconfig:/opt/homebrew/lib/pkgconfig
>>>>>>> -----------
>>>>>>> Called: `/opt/homebrew/bin/pkg-config --modversion python-3.11` -> 0
>>>>>>> stdout:
>>>>>>> 3.11
>>>>>>> -----------
>>>>>>> env[PKG_CONFIG_LIBDIR]: 
>>>>>>> /opt/homebrew/opt/[email protected]/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.11/lib/pkgconfig
>>>>>>> env[PKG_CONFIG_PATH]: 
>>>>>>> /opt/homebrew/opt/sqlite/lib/pkgconfig:/opt/homebrew/opt/readline/lib/pkgconfig:/opt/homebrew/opt/openssl/lib/pkgconfig:/opt/homebrew/opt/openblas/lib/pkgconfig:/opt/homebrew/lib/pkgconfig
>>>>>>> -----------
>>>>>>> Called: `/opt/homebrew/bin/pkg-config --cflags python-3.11` -> 0
>>>>>>> stdout:
>>>>>>> -I/opt/homebrew/opt/[email protected]/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.11/include/python3.11
>>>>>>> -----------
>>>>>>> env[PKG_CONFIG_LIBDIR]: 
>>>>>>> /opt/homebrew/opt/[email protected]/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.11/lib/pkgconfig
>>>>>>> env[PKG_CONFIG_ALLOW_SYSTEM_LIBS]: 1
>>>>>>> env[PKG_CONFIG_PATH]: 
>>>>>>> /opt/homebrew/opt/sqlite/lib/pkgconfig:/opt/homebrew/opt/readline/lib/pkgconfig:/opt/homebrew/opt/openssl/lib/pkgconfig:/opt/homebrew/opt/openblas/lib/pkgconfig:/opt/homebrew/lib/pkgconfig
>>>>>>> -----------
>>>>>>> Called: `/opt/homebrew/bin/pkg-config --libs python-3.11` -> 0
>>>>>>> env[PKG_CONFIG_LIBDIR]: 
>>>>>>> /opt/homebrew/opt/[email protected]/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.11/lib/pkgconfig
>>>>>>> env[PKG_CONFIG_PATH]: 
>>>>>>> /opt/homebrew/opt/sqlite/lib/pkgconfig:/opt/homebrew/opt/readline/lib/pkgconfig:/opt/homebrew/opt/openssl/lib/pkgconfig:/opt/homebrew/opt/openblas/lib/pkgconfig:/opt/homebrew/lib/pkgconfig
>>>>>>> -----------
>>>>>>> Called: `/opt/homebrew/bin/pkg-config --libs python-3.11` -> 0
>>>>>>> Run-time dependency python found: YES 3.11
>>>>>>> Program cython found: YES 
>>>>>>> (/Users/palmieri/Downloads/scipy-1.11.2/venv/bin/cython)
>>>>>>> Running compile:
>>>>>>> Working directory:  
>>>>>>> /Users/palmieri/Downloads/scipy-1.11.2/build/meson-private/tmp3qmviwgf
>>>>>>> Code:
>>>>>>>  extern int i;
>>>>>>> int i;
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----------
>>>>>>> Command line: `cc 
>>>>>>> /Users/palmieri/Downloads/scipy-1.11.2/build/meson-private/tmp3qmviwgf/testfile.c
>>>>>>>  -o 
>>>>>>> /Users/palmieri/Downloads/scipy-1.11.2/build/meson-private/tmp3qmviwgf/output.obj
>>>>>>>  -c -O0 -Werror=implicit-function-declaration 
>>>>>>> -Werror=unknown-warning-option -Werror=unused-command-line-argument 
>>>>>>> -Werror=ignored-optimization-argument -Wunused-but-set-variable 
>>>>>>> -Wno-unused-but-set-variable` -> 0
>>>>>>> Compiler for C supports arguments -Wno-unused-but-set-variable: YES
>>>>>>> Running compile:
>>>>>>> Working directory:  
>>>>>>> /Users/palmieri/Downloads/scipy-1.11.2/build/meson-private/tmp9xo39nq0
>>>>>>> Code:
>>>>>>>  extern int i;
>>>>>>> int i;
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----------
>>>>>>> Command line: `cc 
>>>>>>> /Users/palmieri/Downloads/scipy-1.11.2/build/meson-private/tmp9xo39nq0/testfile.c
>>>>>>>  -o 
>>>>>>> /Users/palmieri/Downloads/scipy-1.11.2/build/meson-private/tmp9xo39nq0/output.obj
>>>>>>>  -c -O0 -Werror=implicit-function-declaration 
>>>>>>> -Werror=unknown-warning-option -Werror=unused-command-line-argument 
>>>>>>> -Werror=ignored-optimization-argument -Wunused-function 
>>>>>>> -Wno-unused-function` -> 0
>>>>>>> Compiler for C supports arguments -Wno-unused-function: YES
>>>>>>> Running compile:
>>>>>>> Working directory:  
>>>>>>> /Users/palmieri/Downloads/scipy-1.11.2/build/meson-private/tmpu7uekb60
>>>>>>> Code:
>>>>>>>  extern int i;
>>>>>>> int i;
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----------
>>>>>>> Command line: `cc 
>>>>>>> /Users/palmieri/Downloads/scipy-1.11.2/build/meson-private/tmpu7uekb60/testfile.c
>>>>>>>  -o 
>>>>>>> /Users/palmieri/Downloads/scipy-1.11.2/build/meson-private/tmpu7uekb60/output.obj
>>>>>>>  -c -O0 -Werror=implicit-function-declaration 
>>>>>>> -Werror=unknown-warning-option -Werror=unused-command-line-argument 
>>>>>>> -Werror=ignored-optimization-argument -Wconversion -Wno-conversion` -> 0
>>>>>>> Compiler for C supports arguments -Wno-conversion: YES
>>>>>>> Running compile:
>>>>>>> Working directory:  
>>>>>>> /Users/palmieri/Downloads/scipy-1.11.2/build/meson-private/tmpo1xh1ad5
>>>>>>> Code:
>>>>>>>  extern int i;
>>>>>>> int i;
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----------
>>>>>>> Command line: `cc 
>>>>>>> /Users/palmieri/Downloads/scipy-1.11.2/build/meson-private/tmpo1xh1ad5/testfile.c
>>>>>>>  -o 
>>>>>>> /Users/palmieri/Downloads/scipy-1.11.2/build/meson-private/tmpo1xh1ad5/output.obj
>>>>>>>  -c -O0 -Werror=implicit-function-declaration 
>>>>>>> -Werror=unknown-warning-option -Werror=unused-command-line-argument 
>>>>>>> -Werror=ignored-optimization-argument -Wmisleading-indentation 
>>>>>>> -Wno-misleading-indentation` -> 0
>>>>>>> Compiler for C supports arguments -Wno-misleading-indentation: YES
>>>>>>> Running compile:
>>>>>>> Working directory:  
>>>>>>> /Users/palmieri/Downloads/scipy-1.11.2/build/meson-private/tmp__jom5wq
>>>>>>> Code:
>>>>>>>  int main(void) { return 0; }
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----------
>>>>>>> Command line: `cc 
>>>>>>> /Users/palmieri/Downloads/scipy-1.11.2/build/meson-private/tmp__jom5wq/testfile.c
>>>>>>>  -o 
>>>>>>> /Users/palmieri/Downloads/scipy-1.11.2/build/meson-private/tmp__jom5wq/output.exe
>>>>>>>  -O0 -Werror=implicit-function-declaration -lm 
>>>>>>> -Wl,-undefined,dynamic_lookup` -> 0
>>>>>>> Library m found: YES
>>>>>>> -----------
>>>>>>> Detecting compiler via: `gfortran --version` -> 0
>>>>>>> stdout:
>>>>>>> GNU Fortran (Homebrew GCC 13.2.0) 13.2.0
>>>>>>> Copyright (C) 2023 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
>>>>>>> This is free software; see the source for copying conditions.  There is 
>>>>>>> NO
>>>>>>> warranty; not even for MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR 
>>>>>>> PURPOSE.
>>>>>>> -----------
>>>>>>> Running command: gfortran -E -dM -
>>>>>>> -----
>>>>>>> -----------
>>>>>>> Detecting linker via: `gfortran -Wl,--version` -> 1
>>>>>>> stderr:
>>>>>>> collect2 version 13.2.0
>>>>>>> /usr/bin/ld -syslibroot 
>>>>>>> /Library/Developer/CommandLineTools/SDKs/MacOSX13.sdk/ -dynamic -arch 
>>>>>>> arm64 -platform_version macos 13.0.0 0.0 -o a.out 
>>>>>>> -L/opt/homebrew/Cellar/gcc/13.2.0/bin/../lib/gcc/current/gcc/aarch64-apple-darwin22/13
>>>>>>>  -L/opt/homebrew/Cellar/gcc/13.2.0/bin/../lib/gcc/current/gcc 
>>>>>>> -L/opt/homebrew/opt/primesieve/lib -L/opt/homebrew/opt/bdw-gc/lib 
>>>>>>> -L/opt/homebrew/opt/libpng/lib -L/opt/homebrew/opt/ntl/lib 
>>>>>>> -L/opt/homebrew/opt/bzip2/lib -L/opt/homebrew/opt/readline/lib 
>>>>>>> -L/opt/homebrew/lib 
>>>>>>> -L/opt/homebrew/Cellar/gcc/13.2.0/bin/../lib/gcc/current/gcc/aarch64-apple-darwin22/13/../../..
>>>>>>>  --version -lemutls_w -lgcc -lSystem -lgcc -no_compact_unwind -rpath 
>>>>>>> @loader_path -rpath 
>>>>>>> /opt/homebrew/Cellar/gcc/13.2.0/lib/gcc/current/gcc/aarch64-apple-darwin22/13
>>>>>>>  -rpath /opt/homebrew/Cellar/gcc/13.2.0/lib/gcc/current/gcc -rpath 
>>>>>>> /opt/homebrew/Cellar/primesieve/11.1/lib -rpath 
>>>>>>> /opt/homebrew/Cellar/bdw-gc/8.2.4/lib -rpath 
>>>>>>> /opt/homebrew/Cellar/libpng/1.6.40/lib -rpath 
>>>>>>> /opt/homebrew/Cellar/ntl/11.5.1/lib -rpath 
>>>>>>> /opt/homebrew/Cellar/bzip2/1.0.8/lib -rpath 
>>>>>>> /opt/homebrew/Cellar/readline/8.2.1/lib -rpath /opt/homebrew/lib -rpath 
>>>>>>> /opt/homebrew/Cellar/gcc/13.2.0/lib/gcc/current
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ld: unknown options: --version
>>>>>>> collect2: error: ld returned 1 exit status
>>>>>>> -----------
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> meson.build:82:0: ERROR: Unable to detect linker for compiler `gfortran 
>>>>>>> -Wl,--version`
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> stdout:
>>>>>>> stderr: collect2 version 13.2.0
>>>>>>> /usr/bin/ld -syslibroot 
>>>>>>> /Library/Developer/CommandLineTools/SDKs/MacOSX13.sdk/ -dynamic -arch 
>>>>>>> arm64 -platform_version macos 13.0.0 0.0 -o a.out 
>>>>>>> -L/opt/homebrew/Cellar/gcc/13.2.0/bin/../lib/gcc/current/gcc/aarch64-apple-darwin22/13
>>>>>>>  -L/opt/homebrew/Cellar/gcc/13.2.0/bin/../lib/gcc/current/gcc 
>>>>>>> -L/opt/homebrew/opt/primesieve/lib -L/opt/homebrew/opt/bdw-gc/lib 
>>>>>>> -L/opt/homebrew/opt/libpng/lib -L/opt/homebrew/opt/ntl/lib 
>>>>>>> -L/opt/homebrew/opt/bzip2/lib -L/opt/homebrew/opt/readline/lib 
>>>>>>> -L/opt/homebrew/lib 
>>>>>>> -L/opt/homebrew/Cellar/gcc/13.2.0/bin/../lib/gcc/current/gcc/aarch64-apple-darwin22/13/../../..
>>>>>>>  --version -lemutls_w -lgcc -lSystem -lgcc -no_compact_unwind -rpath 
>>>>>>> @loader_path -rpath 
>>>>>>> /opt/homebrew/Cellar/gcc/13.2.0/lib/gcc/current/gcc/aarch64-apple-darwin22/13
>>>>>>>  -rpath /opt/homebrew/Cellar/gcc/13.2.0/lib/gcc/current/gcc -rpath 
>>>>>>> /opt/homebrew/Cellar/primesieve/11.1/lib -rpath 
>>>>>>> /opt/homebrew/Cellar/bdw-gc/8.2.4/lib -rpath 
>>>>>>> /opt/homebrew/Cellar/libpng/1.6.40/lib -rpath 
>>>>>>> /opt/homebrew/Cellar/ntl/11.5.1/lib -rpath 
>>>>>>> /opt/homebrew/Cellar/bzip2/1.0.8/lib -rpath 
>>>>>>> /opt/homebrew/Cellar/readline/8.2.1/lib -rpath /opt/homebrew/lib -rpath 
>>>>>>> /opt/homebrew/Cellar/gcc/13.2.0/lib/gcc/current
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ld: unknown options: --version
>>>>>>> collect2: error: ld returned 1 exit status
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Saturday, September 23, 2023 at 11:06:06 AM UTC-7 Dima Pasechnik 
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As far as I can gather from scipy bug tracker,
>>>>>>>> they can build on M2 just fine
>>>>>>>> https://github.com/scipy/scipy/issues/18308
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sat, 23 Sept 2023, 18:07 John H Palmieri, <[email protected]> 
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This is with an Apple Silicon laptop, M2 chip, in case that matters.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, September 23, 2023 at 10:06:36 AM UTC-7 John H Palmieri 
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I tried the venv approach in the scipy docs, and I ran into the same 
>>>>>>>>>> error.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, September 23, 2023 at 1:31:34 AM UTC-7 Dima Pasechnik 
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Can you build scipy from source using their instructions?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 23 Sept 2023, 06:25 John H Palmieri, <[email protected]> 
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> It's from homebrew's gcc. I did `brew reinstall gcc` followed by 
>>>>>>>>>>>> `make distclean && ./configure && make meson_python && make` and 
>>>>>>>>>>>> it still fails at scipy, same error. I removed the cached download 
>>>>>>>>>>>> file for homebrew's gcc and tried again, same result. I have not 
>>>>>>>>>>>> yet tried Sage's gcc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, September 21, 2023 at 11:18:15 PM UTC-7 Dima 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Pasechnik wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where is gfortran coming from here?
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Do you build it with Sage, or use an external one?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> If the external one, e.g. from Homebrew, you most probably need 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to update/reinstall.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ditto in Sage
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 22 Sept 2023, 00:52 John H Palmieri, 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A new problem, after upgrading to OS X 13.6 and the newest 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> version of the command-line tools: scipy fails to build again, 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this time with the error:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   ../../meson.build:82:0: ERROR: Unable to detect linker for 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> compiler `gfortran -Wl,--version 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -L/Users/palmieri/Desktop/Sage/TESTING/sage-10.2.beta3/local/lib 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Wl,-rpath,/Users/palmieri/Desktop/Sage/TESTING/sage-10.2.beta3/local/lib
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -L/Users/palmieri/Desktop/Sage/TESTING/sage-10.2.beta3/local/lib 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Wl,-rpath,/Users/palmieri/Desktop/Sage/TESTING/sage-10.2.beta3/local/lib`
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   stdout:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   stderr: collect2 version 13.2.0
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   /usr/bin/ld -syslibroot 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /Library/Developer/CommandLineTools/SDKs/MacOSX13.sdk/ -dynamic 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -arch arm64 -platform_version macos 13.0.0 0.0 -o a.out 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -L/Users/palmieri/Desktop/Sage/TESTING/sage-10.2.beta3/local/lib 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -L/Users/palmieri/Desktop/Sage/TESTING/sage-10.2.beta3/local/lib 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -L/opt/homebrew/Cellar/gcc/13.2.0/bin/../lib/gcc/current/gcc/aarch64-apple-darwin22/13
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  -L/opt/homebrew/Cellar/gcc/13.2.0/bin/../lib/gcc/current/gcc 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -L/Users/palmieri/Desktop/Sage/TESTING/sage-10.2.beta3/local/lib 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -L/Users/palmieri/Desktop/Sage/TESTING/sage-10.2.beta3/local/lib 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -L/opt/homebrew/opt/primesieve/lib 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -L/opt/homebrew/opt/bdw-gc/lib -L/opt/homebrew/opt/libpng/lib 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -L/opt/homebrew/opt/ntl/lib -L/opt/homebrew/opt/bzip2/lib 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -L/opt/homebrew/opt/readline/lib -L/opt/homebrew/lib 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -L/opt/homebrew/Cellar/gcc/13.2.0/bin/../lib/gcc/current/gcc/aarch64-apple-darwin22/13/../../..
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  --version -rpath 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /Users/palmieri/Desktop/Sage/TESTING/sage-10.2.beta3/local/lib 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -rpath 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /Users/palmieri/Desktop/Sage/TESTING/sage-10.2.beta3/local/lib 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -lemutls_w -lgcc -lSystem -lgcc -no_compact_unwind -rpath 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> @loader_path -rpath 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /opt/homebrew/Cellar/gcc/13.2.0/lib/gcc/current/gcc/aarch64-apple-darwin22/13
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  -rpath /opt/homebrew/Cellar/gcc/13.2.0/lib/gcc/current/gcc 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -rpath 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /Users/palmieri/Desktop/Sage/TESTING/sage-10.2.beta3/local/lib 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -rpath 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /Users/palmieri/Desktop/Sage/TESTING/sage-10.2.beta3/local/lib 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -rpath /opt/homebrew/Cellar/primesieve/11.1/lib -rpath 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /opt/homebrew/Cellar/bdw-gc/8.2.4/lib -rpath 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /opt/homebrew/Cellar/libpng/1.6.40/lib -rpath 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /opt/homebrew/Cellar/ntl/11.5.1/lib -rpath 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /opt/homebrew/Cellar/bzip2/1.0.8/lib -rpath 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /opt/homebrew/Cellar/readline/8.2.1/lib -rpath /opt/homebrew/lib 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -rpath /opt/homebrew/Cellar/gcc/13.2.0/lib/gcc/current
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   ld: unknown options: --version
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   collect2: error: ld returned 1 exit status
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Suggestions?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, September 17, 2023 at 11:25:02 AM UTC-7 John H 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Palmieri wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Similar problem for me on OS X. I don't understand something: 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the dependencies for scipy include meson_python, but that 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> package is not installed before scipy attempts to build, and 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fails. Running "make meson_python" and then "make scipy" 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> succeeds, as does "make".
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, September 16, 2023 at 2:59:58 PM UTC-7 Kwankyu Lee 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Succeeded after sage -pip install meson-python.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, September 17, 2023 at 6:52:59 AM UTC+9 Kwankyu Lee 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Incremental build failed
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [scipy-1.11.2] 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [......................................................................]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [scipy-1.11.2] scipy-1.11.2
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [scipy-1.11.2] 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ====================================================
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [sagelib-10.2.beta3]       Removing file or directory 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /Users/kwankyu/GitHub/sage-dev/local/var/lib/sage/venv-python3.10/lib/python3.10/site-packages/sagemath-standard.egg-link
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [sagelib-10.2.beta3]       Removing pth entries from 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /Users/kwankyu/GitHub/sage-dev/local/var/lib/sage/venv-python3.10/lib/python3.10/site-packages/easy-install.pth:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [sagelib-10.2.beta3]       Removing entry: 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /Users/kwankyu/GitHub/sage-dev/src
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [sagelib-10.2.beta3]       Successfully uninstalled 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sagemath-standard-10.2b3
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [sagelib-10.2.beta3]   Running setup.py develop for 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sagemath-standard
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [sagelib-10.2.beta3]     Running command python setup.py 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> develop
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [scipy-1.11.2] Setting up build directory for scipy-1.11.2
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [scipy-1.11.2] Finished extraction
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [scipy-1.11.2] Applying patches from ../patches...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [scipy-1.11.2] Applying ../patches/numpy-include.patch
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [scipy-1.11.2] patching file scipy/spatial/setup.py
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [scipy-1.11.2] Hunk #1 succeeded at 39 (offset -1 lines).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [scipy-1.11.2] Applying 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ../patches/tests_no_internet_dependency.patch
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [scipy-1.11.2] patching file scipy/datasets/meson.build
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [scipy-1.11.2] 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ****************************************************
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [scipy-1.11.2] Host system:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [scipy-1.11.2] Darwin Helios.local 22.6.0 Darwin Kernel 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Version 22.6.0: Wed Jul  5 22:21:56 PDT 2023; 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> root:xnu-8796.141.3~6/RELEASE_X86_64 x86_64
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [scipy-1.11.2] 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ****************************************************
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [scipy-1.11.2] C compiler: gcc
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [scipy-1.11.2] C compiler version:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [scipy-1.11.2] Apple clang version 14.0.3 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (clang-1403.0.22.14.1)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [scipy-1.11.2] Target: x86_64-apple-darwin22.6.0
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [scipy-1.11.2] Thread model: posix
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [scipy-1.11.2] InstalledDir: 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /Library/Developer/CommandLineTools/usr/bin
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [scipy-1.11.2] 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ****************************************************
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [scipy-1.11.2] Package 'scipy' is currently not installed
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [scipy-1.11.2] No legacy uninstaller found for 'scipy'; 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nothing to do
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [scipy-1.11.2] Installing scipy-1.11.2
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [scipy-1.11.2] DEPRECATION: --no-binary currently disables 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reading from the cache of locally built wheels. In the future 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --no-binary will not influence the wheel cache. pip 23.1 will 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> enforce this behaviour change. A possible replacement is to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> use the --no-cache-dir option. You can use the flag 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --use-feature=no-binary-enable-wheel-cache to test the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> upcoming behaviour. Discussion can be found at 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/pypa/pip/issues/11453
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [scipy-1.11.2] Processing 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /Users/kwankyu/GitHub/sage-dev/local/var/lib/sage/venv-python3.10/var/tmp/sage/build/scipy-1.11.2/src
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [scipy-1.11.2]   Preparing metadata (pyproject.toml): started
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [scipy-1.11.2]   Running command Preparing metadata 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (pyproject.toml)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [scipy-1.11.2]   Preparing metadata (pyproject.toml): 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> finished with status 'done'
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [scipy-1.11.2] ERROR: Exception:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [scipy-1.11.2] Traceback (most recent call last):
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [scipy-1.11.2]   File 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "/Users/kwankyu/GitHub/sage-dev/local/var/lib/sage/venv-python3.10/lib/python3.10/site-packages/pip/_internal/cli/base_command.py",
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  line 160, in exc_logging_wrapper
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [scipy-1.11.2]     status = run_func(*args)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [scipy-1.11.2]   File 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "/Users/kwankyu/GitHub/sage-dev/local/var/lib/sage/venv-python3.10/lib/python3.10/site-packages/pip/_internal/cli/req_command.py",
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  line 247, in wrapper
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [scipy-1.11.2]     return func(self, options, args)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [scipy-1.11.2]   File 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "/Users/kwankyu/GitHub/sage-dev/local/var/lib/sage/venv-python3.10/lib/python3.10/site-packages/pip/_internal/commands/wheel.py",
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  line 170, in run
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [scipy-1.11.2]     requirement_set = resolver.resolve(reqs, 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> check_supported_wheels=True)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [scipy-1.11.2]   File 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "/Users/kwankyu/GitHub/sage-dev/local/var/lib/sage/venv-python3.10/lib/python3.10/site-packages/pip/_internal/resolution/resolvelib/resolver.py",
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  line 73, in resolve
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [scipy-1.11.2]     collected = 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> self.factory.collect_root_requirements(root_reqs)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [scipy-1.11.2]   File 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "/Users/kwankyu/GitHub/sage-dev/local/var/lib/sage/venv-python3.10/lib/python3.10/site-packages/pip/_internal/resolution/resolvelib/factory.py",
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  line 491, in collect_root_requirements
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [scipy-1.11.2]     req = 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> self._make_requirement_from_install_req(
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [scipy-1.11.2]   File 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "/Users/kwankyu/GitHub/sage-dev/local/var/lib/sage/venv-python3.10/lib/python3.10/site-packages/pip/_internal/resolution/resolvelib/factory.py",
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  line 453, in _make_requirement_from_install_req
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [scipy-1.11.2]     cand = self._make_candidate_from_link(
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [scipy-1.11.2]   File 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "/Users/kwankyu/GitHub/sage-dev/local/var/lib/sage/venv-python3.10/lib/python3.10/site-packages/pip/_internal/resolution/resolvelib/factory.py",
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  line 206, in _make_candidate_from_link
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [scipy-1.11.2]     self._link_candidate_cache[link] = 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LinkCandidate(
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [scipy-1.11.2]   File 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "/Users/kwankyu/GitHub/sage-dev/local/var/lib/sage/venv-python3.10/lib/python3.10/site-packages/pip/_internal/resolution/resolvelib/candidates.py",
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  line 297, in __init__
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [scipy-1.11.2]     super().__init__(
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [scipy-1.11.2]   File 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "/Users/kwankyu/GitHub/sage-dev/local/var/lib/sage/venv-python3.10/lib/python3.10/site-packages/pip/_internal/resolution/resolvelib/candidates.py",
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  line 162, in __init__
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [scipy-1.11.2]     self.dist = self._prepare()
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [scipy-1.11.2]   File 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "/Users/kwankyu/GitHub/sage-dev/local/var/lib/sage/venv-python3.10/lib/python3.10/site-packages/pip/_internal/resolution/resolvelib/candidates.py",
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  line 231, in _prepare
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [scipy-1.11.2]     dist = self._prepare_distribution()
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [scipy-1.11.2]   File 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "/Users/kwankyu/GitHub/sage-dev/local/var/lib/sage/venv-python3.10/lib/python3.10/site-packages/pip/_internal/resolution/resolvelib/candidates.py",
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  line 308, in _prepare_distribution
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [scipy-1.11.2]     return 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> preparer.prepare_linked_requirement(self._ireq, 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> parallel_builds=True)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [scipy-1.11.2]   File 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "/Users/kwankyu/GitHub/sage-dev/local/var/lib/sage/venv-python3.10/lib/python3.10/site-packages/pip/_internal/operations/prepare.py",
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  line 491, in prepare_linked_requirement
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [scipy-1.11.2]     return 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> self._prepare_linked_requirement(req, parallel_builds)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [scipy-1.11.2]   File 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "/Users/kwankyu/GitHub/sage-dev/local/var/lib/sage/venv-python3.10/lib/python3.10/site-packages/pip/_internal/operations/prepare.py",
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  line 577, in _prepare_linked_requirement
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [scipy-1.11.2]     dist = _get_prepared_distribution(
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [scipy-1.11.2]   File 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "/Users/kwankyu/GitHub/sage-dev/local/var/lib/sage/venv-python3.10/lib/python3.10/site-packages/pip/_internal/operations/prepare.py",
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  line 69, in _get_prepared_distribution
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [scipy-1.11.2]     
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> abstract_dist.prepare_distribution_metadata(
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [scipy-1.11.2]   File 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "/Users/kwankyu/GitHub/sage-dev/local/var/lib/sage/venv-python3.10/lib/python3.10/site-packages/pip/_internal/distributions/sdist.py",
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  line 61, in prepare_distribution_metadata
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [scipy-1.11.2]     self.req.prepare_metadata()
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [scipy-1.11.2]   File 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "/Users/kwankyu/GitHub/sage-dev/local/var/lib/sage/venv-python3.10/lib/python3.10/site-packages/pip/_internal/req/req_install.py",
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  line 535, in prepare_metadata
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [scipy-1.11.2]     self.metadata_directory = 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> generate_metadata(
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [scipy-1.11.2]   File 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "/Users/kwankyu/GitHub/sage-dev/local/var/lib/sage/venv-python3.10/lib/python3.10/site-packages/pip/_internal/operations/build/metadata.py",
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  line 35, in generate_metadata
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [scipy-1.11.2]     distinfo_dir = 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> backend.prepare_metadata_for_build_wheel(metadata_dir)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [scipy-1.11.2]   File 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "/Users/kwankyu/GitHub/sage-dev/local/var/lib/sage/venv-python3.10/lib/python3.10/site-packages/pip/_internal/utils/misc.py",
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  line 706, in prepare_metadata_for_build_wheel
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [scipy-1.11.2]     return 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> super().prepare_metadata_for_build_wheel(
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [scipy-1.11.2]   File 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "/Users/kwankyu/GitHub/sage-dev/local/var/lib/sage/venv-python3.10/lib/python3.10/site-packages/pip/_vendor/pep517/wrappers.py",
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  line 189, in prepare_metadata_for_build_wheel
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [scipy-1.11.2]     return 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> self._call_hook('prepare_metadata_for_build_wheel', {
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [scipy-1.11.2]   File 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "/Users/kwankyu/GitHub/sage-dev/local/var/lib/sage/venv-python3.10/lib/python3.10/site-packages/pip/_vendor/pep517/wrappers.py",
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  line 319, in _call_hook
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [scipy-1.11.2]     raise 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BackendUnavailable(data.get('traceback', ''))
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [scipy-1.11.2] 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pip._vendor.pep517.wrappers.BackendUnavailable: Traceback 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (most recent call last):
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [scipy-1.11.2]   File 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "/Users/kwankyu/GitHub/sage-dev/local/var/lib/sage/venv-python3.10/lib/python3.10/site-packages/pip/_vendor/pep517/in_process/_in_process.py",
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  line 77, in _build_backend
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [scipy-1.11.2]     obj = import_module(mod_path)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [scipy-1.11.2]   File 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "/usr/local/Cellar/[email protected]/3.10.9/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.10/lib/python3.10/importlib/__init__.py",
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  line 126, in import_module
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [scipy-1.11.2]     return 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _bootstrap._gcd_import(name[level:], package, level)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [scipy-1.11.2]   File "<frozen importlib._bootstrap>", line 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1050, in _gcd_import
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [scipy-1.11.2]   File "<frozen importlib._bootstrap>", line 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1027, in _find_and_load
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [scipy-1.11.2]   File "<frozen importlib._bootstrap>", line 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1004, in _find_and_load_unlocked
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [scipy-1.11.2] ModuleNotFoundError: No module named 'mesonpy'
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [scipy-1.11.2]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [scipy-1.11.2] 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ********************************************************************************
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [scipy-1.11.2] Error building a wheel for scipy-1.11.2
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [scipy-1.11.2] 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ********************************************************************************
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [scipy-1.11.2]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [scipy-1.11.2] real 0m0.924s
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [scipy-1.11.2] user 0m0.663s
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [scipy-1.11.2] sys 0m0.184s
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [scipy-1.11.2] 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ************************************************************************
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [scipy-1.11.2] Error installing package scipy-1.11.2
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, September 17, 2023 at 12:31:53 AM UTC+9 Volker 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Braun wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As always, you can get the latest beta version from the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "develop" git branch. Alternatively, the self-contained 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> source tarball is at 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.sagemath.org/download-latest.html
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 80f6d772a15 (tag: 10.2.beta3, github/develop) Updated 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> SageMath version to 10.2.beta3
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> f32860b2015 gh-36263: Fix setuptools version bounds in 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> generated `pyproject.toml` files
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> c95bd1440b4 gh-36260: `MPowerSeries`: Don't go through 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> symbolics to compute exp(0), log(1)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cac16e2fa5d gh-36256: Support more system-site packages
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 238b1dc6eef gh-36255: numpy-1.25 compatibility
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 486d3b99e87 gh-36250: various details in sets/disjoint_set
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 357b34b55f7 gh-36249: E228 and E225 in 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> groups,interfaces,modules,plot
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> adc3df9e5c0 gh-36248: some care for unused variables in 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> matrix/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 413b5d679c5 gh-36247: fix E228 and E225 in categories/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 96d249a37d9 gh-36243: ⬆️ Bump actions/checkout from 3 to 4
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 4bb48bddfa4 gh-36241: ⬆️ Bump 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> myrotvorets/set-commit-status-action from 1.1.7 to 2.0.0
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 191d1f97ba6 gh-36240: Fix Python package metadata generated 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by `bootstrap`
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 905d3c2d486 gh-36238: `sage -t`: Distinguish .pxd from .pyx 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in doctest basenames
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> b6b50a80e96 gh-36235: support for ecl 23.9.9
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 683b05bb5a2 gh-36232: Make `min_spanning_tree` robust to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> incomparable vertex labels
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 8d09d156fcf gh-36231: fix typo in documentation
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 33182d9feaa gh-36225: improve the use of graphs in 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> `sage/combinat/posets/*`
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 33d6cc5a001 gh-36224: Add cycle_type() and fix to_cycle() to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> SignedPermutation.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3e6db2405df gh-36221: get rid of xrange again
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 029450c8712 gh-36219: configure.ac: disable 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> webencodings,tinycss2 with --disable-notebook
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3ea961767e8 gh-36218: src/bin/sage-env: set 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PYDEVD_DISABLE_FILE_VALIDATION=1
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> f95e442cb4b gh-36213: Fix sync labels issues for step 2 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> going live
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e74579d32b9 gh-36212: singular: added missing #endif
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 322ad22e8c8 gh-36210: configure.ac: disable mathjax with 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --disable-doc
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 6fe3561bbbb gh-36209: build/pkgs/ipython/dependencies: drop 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jinja2
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 78efe5546db gh-36206: Remove some obsolete "six" dependencies
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1a1df6f6fbe gh-36186: Drop obsolete html5lib package
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 5b2f125a842 gh-36176: build/pkgs/tox: Update, require tox >= 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 4.2.7, update dependencies
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 9dd8a772e53 gh-36168: `sage.groups`: Modularization fixes, 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> `# needs`, doctest cosmetics
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 4f4fbc29184 gh-36165: Fix reduction of cusps for Gamma(N)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 45537351d7e gh-36122: Added hash function to elements of the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fundamental group of an extended affine Weyl group
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 5b9137c7204 gh-35970: 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> src/sage/combinat/affine_permutation.py: Fix docstring markup
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bbe57a4d34d gh-35964: Matroids: Don't forget to check rank 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in `equals`, `is_isomorphism`
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 23b1a0af6f0 gh-35875: Implementing moment angle complexes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3a3126ffc0e gh-35767: add .basis_matrix() wrapper to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quaternion orders
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> d412568dff7 gh-35485: New comparison mode to lazy series and 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> better undefined check
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 21a624a7b45 gh-35362: Implement infinite sums and products 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for lazy series
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 8c040276465 gh-35038: Implement Milnor fiber and Coxeter 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> complexes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 41031292ff1 (tag: 10.2.beta2) Updated SageMath version to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 10.2.beta2
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the 
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it, send an email to [email protected].
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-release/8ea52d9b-96c1-4792-af11-6589218cf564n%40googlegroups.com.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> --
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>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, 
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>>>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-release/7a1bce7c-8f7f-480f-a8c0-45600328398en%40googlegroups.com.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
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>>>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
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>>>>>>
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>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
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