This is not a feature of Sage as such but of Groebner basis
computations generally.  They go very quickly from easy to impossible
when, for example, you increase the number of variables.

I have not tried it but I would not be surprised if other packages
(including the expensive ones) have the same difficulty.  But perhaps
someone will prove me wrong?

John Cremona

2008/6/24 Daniel Loughran <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
> Dear Sage Community,
> I havnt been using Sage that long but iv noticed a trend, in that my
> sage doesnt seem to complete some more difficult tasks. Either it
> completes the task in less than 10 seconds or it doesnt complete it
> all! It feels like once I have crossed a certain threshold the
> computation will never finish and I have to interupt it.
>
> Here is my spec:
> OS: Windows XP (latest version)
> Sage Version: SAGE Version 3.0.1, Release Date: 2008-05-05
> Using firefox notebook through VMware player.
> Machine: 2.40GHz, 1.97Gb RAM, Plently of free Hard disk space.
>
> As an example, iv been trying to compute the following Groebner Bases
> (apologises for the code overload! I wasnt sure how else to present
> it...)
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> R.<x0,x1,x2,x3,x4,x5,x6,R10,R11,R12,R13,R14,R15,R16,R17,R18,R19,R110,R111,R112,R113,R114,R115>
> =PolynomialRing(QQ);
>
> I=ideal([-x4*R14 - x6*R16 + x6*R17 + x5*R19 + x3*R113,x5*R11 + x2*R14
> + x4*R17
> - x3*R110 + x6*R112, -x6*R11 - x2*R12 - x2*R16 + x1*R17 + x6*R18 +
> x1*R110 - x3*R115 - x4*R115, -x5*R11 - x4*R12 - x2*R14 + x3*R16 -
> x4*R17
> + x5*R18 + x6*R19 + x3*R110 + x1*R113 + x6*R115, -x6*R11 - x2*R12 +
> x6*R13 + x0*R14 + x5*R15 - x2*R16 + x1*R110 - x3*R114 - x4*R115,x0*R12
> - x3*R13 - x4*R13 + x6*R15 + x0*R16 + x4*R18 - x1*R112 - x1*R114],R);
>
> len(I.gens());
>  6
>
> len(I.groebner_basis());
>  30
>
> (calculated in less than 3 seconds)
>
>
> However if I add just one more generator it never completes the
> computation:
>
> J=ideal([-x4*R14 - x6*R16 + x6*R17 + x5*R19 + x3*R113,x5*R11 + x2*R14
> + x4*R17
> - x3*R110 + x6*R112, -x6*R11 - x2*R12 - x2*R16 + x1*R17 + x6*R18 +
> x1*R110 - x3*R115 - x4*R115, -x5*R11 - x4*R12 - x2*R14 + x3*R16 -
> x4*R17
> + x5*R18 + x6*R19 + x3*R110 + x1*R113 + x6*R115, -x6*R11 - x2*R12 +
> x6*R13 + x0*R14 + x5*R15 - x2*R16 + x1*R110 - x3*R114 - x4*R115,x0*R12
> - x3*R13 - x4*R13 + x6*R15 + x0*R16 + x4*R18 - x1*R112 - x1*R114,
> x3*R10 - x4*R10 + x3*R11 + x0*R17 - x2*R19 + x0*R110 + x6*R111 -
> x2*R112 - x2*R114],R);
>
> len(J.gens());
>  7
>
> len(J.groebner_basis());
>  ?
>
> I actually want to calculate the groebner basis for the following
> ideal:
> K=ideal([-x4*R14 - x6*R16 + x6*R17 + x5*R19 + x3*R113, x5*R11 + x2*R14
> + x4*R17
> - x3*R110 + x6*R112, -x6*R11 - x2*R12 - x2*R16 + x1*R17 + x6*R18 +
> x1*R110 - x3*R115 - x4*R115, -x5*R11 - x4*R12 - x2*R14 + x3*R16 -
> x4*R17
> + x5*R18 + x6*R19 + x3*R110 + x1*R113 + x6*R115, -x6*R11 - x2*R12 +
> x6*R13 + x0*R14 + x5*R15 - x2*R16 + x1*R110 - x3*R114 - x4*R115,
> x0*R12
> - x3*R13 - x4*R13 + x6*R15 + x0*R16 + x4*R18 - x1*R112 - x1*R114,
> -x3*R10 - x4*R10 + x3*R11 + x0*R17 - x2*R19 + x0*R110 + x6*R111 -
> x2*R112 - x2*R114, x6*R10 - x6*R11 - x2*R16 + x5*R111 + x0*R113 -
> x4*R114, -x1*R10 + x1*R11 + x2*R13 + x4*R15 - x2*R18 + x0*R19 -
> x3*R111
> + x0*R115, -x3*x6*R10 + x3*x6*R11 + x0*x6*R12 - x3*x6*R13 + x4*x5*R15
> +
> x6^2*R15 + x2*x3*R16 - x1*x4*R17 + x0*x6*R17 + x0*x5*R19 - x3*x5*R111
> -
> x1*x6*R112 - x1*x6*R114 + x3*x4*R115, -x3^2*R10 - x3*x4*R10 + x3^2*R11
> +
> x0*x5*R11 - x2*x6*R13 - x2*x5*R15 + x1*x2*R17 + x0*x3*R17 + x0*x4*R17
> +
> x2*x6*R18 - x2*x3*R19 + x3*x6*R111 - x2*x3*R112 + x0*x6*R112 -
> x2*x3*R115, x1*x4*R11 - x0*x6*R11 + x3*x4*R15 + x4^2*R15 + x2*x6*R15 -
> x2*x3*R18 + x0*x6*R18 + x1*x2*R19 + x0*x3*R19 + x0*x4*R19 - x3^2*R111
> -
> x3*x4*R111 - x1*x6*R111, -x0*x3*x6^2*R12 - x0*x4*x6^2*R12 +
> x3^2*x6^2*R13 + x3*x4*x6^2*R13 - x2*x6^3*R13 - x3*x6^3*R15 -
> x4*x6^3*R15
> + x1*x2*x6^2*R16 - x3*x4*x6^2*R18 + x0*x5*x6^2*R18 + x2*x6^3*R18 -
> x1*x5*x6^2*R111 + x3*x6^3*R111 + x1*x3*x6^2*R112 + x0*x6^3*R112 +
> x1*x3*x6^2*R114 + x1*x4*x6^2*R114],R);
>
> len(K.gens());
>  13
>
> Seems a long way off....
>
>
> Am I really pushing Sage beyond its limits or is there something else
> more subtle going on?
>
> Thanks!
> Dan
>
>
> >
>

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