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Today's Topics:
1. Re: What do upasargas mean? (Mukesh Goel)
2. Re: Sanskrit Parser. (Atul Kulkarni)
3. vi contd (Desiraju Hanumanta Rao)
4. Re: Sanskrit Parser. (Lakshmi Srinivas)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 20:58:49 -0800
From: "Mukesh Goel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] What do upasargas mean?
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [email protected]
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Message: 2
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 15:01:24 +0530
From: Atul Kulkarni <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] Sanskrit Parser.
To: Lakshmi Srinivas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: Sanskrit Mailing List <[email protected]>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Hi Lakshmi Srinivas,
I could not locate the article u mentioned " P Z Ingerman,
'Panini-Backus form' suggested, Communications of the ACM 10
(3)(1967), 137" on the ACM website. Can you please provide me a link
to this article? I want to read it before starting my project.
Regards
Atul.
On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 04:35:21 -0800 (PST), Lakshmi Srinivas
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The question is what are you writing a parser for - because Sanskrit is
> 'readily in BNF form'. This comment needs to be put in perspective.
>
> Panini's ashtadhyayi, which is a descriptive grammar of the Sanskrit
> language, is in a notation equal in power to that of the BNF notation. Plse
> refer in this context:
>
> P Z Ingerman, 'Panini-Backus form' suggested, Communications of the ACM 10
> (3)(1967), 137.
>
> Suffice it to say that a sentence is Sanskrit itself is not in BNF form !!!
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> Lakshmi Srinivas
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Atul Kulkarni <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi All,
> I am trying to delve in to the feild of sanskrit parser, using the
> sanskrit grammer (panini's Ashtadyayi), coz I have heard it is readily
> in BNF (form of grammer used to design the parser). Can members of
> this community help me in designing this project. I am a novice to the
> language, but know few basics about it! (learned few basics long time
> back in school!) I need to understand that how the langugae treats the
> words while using.
>
> Regards,
> Atul.
> _______________________________________________
> sanskrit mailing list
> [email protected]
> http://mailman.cs.utah.edu/mailman/listinfo/sanskrit
>
>
> ________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 02:09:23 -0800 (PST)
From: Desiraju Hanumanta Rao <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Sanskrit] vi contd
To: [email protected]
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>> As correctly stated by rAma, we should look up the
meaning of the joint upasarga-verb in the dictionary.
-- but how, when dic-s are not accepting compunded words? Apte - Compound words
(-Comp.) are not taken. and MW still a stiffer book pushing everything under
ifc - in fine compostion, and we are at the mercy of these two books. However
dics have an excuse ssying 'we give contextual meaning...' Then every compunded
word became a general word, and a word like - vipraNaShTa= vi+pra+naShTa= very,
completely, ruined - has dropped down its two preverbs and ruined to give
meaning as - ruined.
If ' vi ' is appearing as it is in compounded words, it is OK we can somehow
be termpted to grab meaning, rather more meaning than the lexicons say, of
course with our little knowledge about vi. vi+pra+dru= very, speedily, chased;
vi+ni+kR^i= very, completely, cut off etc. equating the preverb vi with very,
or verily and pra with completely or utterly. In this category vishvam is
there; vi+shva= verily, tomorrow - sthaaSyati - which will be there - vishvam,
universe - unlike ashvattha. Here commentators, who have cleaved and said the
minutest meaning, are required - as Rama said. Otherwise we get a generalissed
meaning.
But when vi has made inroads in to next preverb or word, then the real problem
occurs. vypadesha= vi+apa+dish= deserving spl mention; vyavasasaada -
vi+ava+sad - to sink back; anuvyaaharaNa = anu+vi+aa+hR^i= pronounce a curse,
or say later; vyativartana vi+ati+vR^it= passage [of time- kaalasya
vyativartana.] How to cleave them to get vi from the words, or how many books
are there for collateral reading.
>> It is best not to give in to the temptation of looking
for a meaning of the upasarga.
Even if meanings for word together with preverbs are searched they are not
categorically given in any dic-s, and we have to go by contextual meanings
alone. And though there is no great meaning attached to these preverbs, their
function, degree of difference and intensity, is to be kept in view while
getting a picture of the narration.
These days G�rard Huet is trying hard to recast dic entries with preverb
separated entries like - vijana [vi-jana] a. m. n. sans hommes, solitaire;
vicitra [vi-citra] a. m. n. vari�; multicolore, bariol�; of course, with sans
hyphen on the right of =
But words like - vyapade�a [vyapadi�] m. nom de famille, race - remain
uncleaved - vi+apa+dish= one from which the stigma has gone - such a family,
like that of king Janaka. Perhaps he cannot afford this much hair plucking from
an egg shell.
IIT Madras is also trying to recast MW dic. and they give meaning for vi
seperately, while vijana etc compounded words are given more general meanings
at http://acharya.iitm.ac.in/olref/dict.html
Tony K. Stewart Professor of South Asian Religions Department of Philosophy
and Religion North Carolina State University - informs that: the Digital
Dictionaries of South Asia project by several cooperating US universities,
funded by the US Department of Education and housed at the University of
Chicago.
See: http://dsal.uchicago.edu/dictionaries/index.html
In this project everywhere they say 'The data for this title is being converted
to an encoding system that can be used for Web presentation...' Encoding is
alright but we have to see how they present each word of Sanskrit, ie preverb
cleaved or generalised. Or, if they listen to others we may advise them about
our thinking. Till then dics are useless insofar as preverbs are concerned.
So, Vishveshvar - if you want to construct new words with a pre vi - go ahead,
but explian it in footnote what you meant - otherwise confusion prrevails.
---------------------------------
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Message: 4
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 05:28:55 -0800 (PST)
From: Lakshmi Srinivas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] Sanskrit Parser.
To: Atul Kulkarni <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: Sanskrit Mailing List <[email protected]>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
It may not be online. You may want to order the article or get an offprint.
Lakshmi Srinivas
Atul Kulkarni <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi Lakshmi Srinivas,
I could not locate the article u mentioned " P Z Ingerman,
'Panini-Backus form' suggested, Communications of the ACM 10
(3)(1967), 137" on the ACM website. Can you please provide me a link
to this article? I want to read it before starting my project.
Regards
Atul.
On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 04:35:21 -0800 (PST), Lakshmi Srinivas
wrote:
> The question is what are you writing a parser for - because Sanskrit is
> 'readily in BNF form'. This comment needs to be put in perspective.
>
> Panini's ashtadhyayi, which is a descriptive grammar of the Sanskrit
> language, is in a notation equal in power to that of the BNF notation. Plse
> refer in this context:
>
> P Z Ingerman, 'Panini-Backus form' suggested, Communications of the ACM 10
> (3)(1967), 137.
>
> Suffice it to say that a sentence is Sanskrit itself is not in BNF form !!!
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> Lakshmi Srinivas
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Atul Kulkarni wrote:
> Hi All,
> I am trying to delve in to the feild of sanskrit parser, using the
> sanskrit grammer (panini's Ashtadyayi), coz I have heard it is readily
> in BNF (form of grammer used to design the parser). Can members of
> this community help me in designing this project. I am a novice to the
> language, but know few basics about it! (learned few basics long time
> back in school!) I need to understand that how the langugae treats the
> words while using.
>
> Regards,
> Atul.
> _______________________________________________
> sanskrit mailing list
> [email protected]
> http://mailman.cs.utah.edu/mailman/listinfo/sanskrit
>
>
> ________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
>
>
---------------------------------
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Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
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