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Today's Topics:
1. Re: gOmUtrikAba.ndha (contd.) (Sai)
2. RE: udyogaparvam - sarga 17 - 11 (Vikram Santurkar)
3. RE: udyogaparvam - sarga 17 - 11 (Jay Vaidya)
4. RE: udyogaparvam - sarga 17 - 11 (Vikram Santurkar)
5. Re: gOmUtrikAba.ndha (contd.) (Ambujam Raman)
6. udyogaparvam - sarga 17 - 13 ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
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Message: 1
Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 12:31:47 -0600
From: Sai <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] gOmUtrikAba.ndha (contd.)
To: "J. K. Mohana Rao" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: sanskrit@cs.utah.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
J. K. Mohana Rao uvaacha:
> The degree of difficulty is called kashTA.nka.
> For the gOmUtrikAba.ndha, it is in the
> thirties.
Interesting.
Is there indeed such a thing in poetry called kaShTA.nka or
is it your contribution?
- Sai.
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 12:06:56 -0700
From: "Vikram Santurkar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: [Sanskrit] udyogaparvam - sarga 17 - 11
To: "Jay Vaidya" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <sanskrit@cs.utah.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Namaste Dhananjaya,
The "adharmapIDitaH" does refer to Nahusha, as does "vivadamAnaH".
This is evident in the pratipadArtha section.
So there is no association with Agastya in those words -
am not sure why this question and subsequent correction is raised ?
This shloka is closely linked with the previous 17-10, which describes
the sages admonition to Nahusha which caused him to argue ["vivadamAnaH"]
and then being adharmic, touched Sage Agastya on the head.
vikram
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Jay Vaidya
Sent: Monday, July 11, 2005 6:03 AM
To: sanskrit@cs.utah.edu
Subject: [Sanskrit] udyogaparvam - sarga 17 - 11
Minor correction:
"adharmapIDitaH" referrs to nahaushha, not agastya.
Being in prathamA it refers to the same person as
"saH" (i.e., he, nahushha), "vivAdamAnaH", and
"aspR^ishat". Not "mAm" (i.e., to agastya), which is
in dvitIyA.
also "vivAdamAnaH" = arguer = someone in the process
the arguing = (idiomatically, added to sentence) while
arguing.
I would also translate "atha" as "in this way"
(suggesting that the narrator demonstrated how), but
that is debatable.
My changed version:
Agastya to Indra: O Indra, then, while arguing with
the sages, he(nahushha) who was afflicted with
unjustness (adharma), touched me on my head with his
foot like this;
Dhananjay
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: [Sanskrit] udyogaparvam -
> sarga 17 - 11
> shlokaH 11
> tato vivadamAnaH sa munibhiH saha vAsava .
> atha mAmaspR^ishanmUrdhni pAdenAdharmapIDitaH ..
> 11..\
> ...
> vivadamAnaH=having argued;
> ...
> adharmapIDitaH=without proper conduct having
> anuvAdaH
> ...
> Agastya to Indra: O Indra, having argued with the
> sages, then without proper conduct having troubled
> me, touched me on my head with his foot;
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------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 13:06:49 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jay Vaidya <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: [Sanskrit] udyogaparvam - sarga 17 - 11
To: Vikram Santurkar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: sanskrit@cs.utah.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
namaste vikrama,
Let me congratulate you on your dedication, and the
high quality of the translation of the udyogaparva.
The minor error and equally minor correction arises
from the English rendering:
> pratipadaarthaH...
> adharmapIDitaH=without proper conduct
> having troubled;
> mAm=me
> ...
>anuvAdaH
> Agastya to Indra:
> ... then without proper conduct *having troubled
> me*...
But, as you have explained below, "me" (= agastya)
wasn't troubled, but it was nahushha that was
troubled. We all agree. However, this sense is not
clear from the quoted pratipadArtha and phrase above.
To get that sense, they should be:
> pratipadArtha ...
> adharmapIDitaH=without proper conduct
> *BEING* troubled;
> mAm=me
> ...
> (aspR^ishat=he touched)
>...
> anuvAdaH
> Agastya to Indra:
> ... then, *being* without proper conduct ...
> (he touched) me...
The English rendering as previously written would be
correct if the word were "adharma-pIDitavAn"
(that,of course, wouldn't fit; but I just wished to
make the distiction clear : pIDitaH = nahushha
suffers, pIDitavAn = nahushha causes suffering.)
There is a poetic expression of a spiritual thought
here. i.e., "adharma" causes the bad person himself to
suffer. With care, this poetic expression should not
be lost.
dhana.njaya
--- Vikram Santurkar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Namaste Dhananjaya,
>
> The "adharmapIDitaH" does refer to Nahusha, as does
> "vivadamAnaH".
> This is evident in the pratipadArtha section.
>
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------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 14:12:58 -0700
From: "Vikram Santurkar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: [Sanskrit] udyogaparvam - sarga 17 - 11
To: "Jay Vaidya" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: sanskrit@cs.utah.edu
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
namaste,
mayA avagatam.
dhanyavAdaH.
vikram
-----Original Message-----
From: Jay Vaidya [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2005 1:07 PM
To: Vikram Santurkar
Cc: sanskrit@cs.utah.edu
Subject: RE: [Sanskrit] udyogaparvam - sarga 17 - 11
namaste vikrama,
Let me congratulate you on your dedication, and the
high quality of the translation of the udyogaparva.
The minor error and equally minor correction arises
from the English rendering:
> pratipadaarthaH...
> adharmapIDitaH=without proper conduct
> having troubled;
> mAm=me
> ...
>anuvAdaH
> Agastya to Indra:
> ... then without proper conduct *having troubled
> me*...
But, as you have explained below, "me" (= agastya)
wasn't troubled, but it was nahushha that was
troubled. We all agree. However, this sense is not
clear from the quoted pratipadArtha and phrase above.
To get that sense, they should be:
> pratipadArtha ...
> adharmapIDitaH=without proper conduct
> *BEING* troubled;
> mAm=me
> ...
> (aspR^ishat=he touched)
>...
> anuvAdaH
> Agastya to Indra:
> ... then, *being* without proper conduct ...
> (he touched) me...
The English rendering as previously written would be
correct if the word were "adharma-pIDitavAn"
(that,of course, wouldn't fit; but I just wished to
make the distiction clear : pIDitaH = nahushha
suffers, pIDitavAn = nahushha causes suffering.)
There is a poetic expression of a spiritual thought
here. i.e., "adharma" causes the bad person himself to
suffer. With care, this poetic expression should not
be lost.
dhana.njaya
--- Vikram Santurkar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Namaste Dhananjaya,
>
> The "adharmapIDitaH" does refer to Nahusha, as does
> "vivadamAnaH".
> This is evident in the pratipadArtha section.
>
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Message: 5
Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 20:19:15 -0400
From: "Ambujam Raman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] gOmUtrikAba.ndha (contd.)
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <sanskrit@cs.utah.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
priya Raogaaru:
This is fascinating. Pl. continue to post more of such delectable Sanskrit
Sahitya gems.
dhanyavaad
rAmaH
----- Original Message -----
From: J. K. Mohana Rao
To: sanskrit@cs.utah.edu
Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2005 12:02 PM
Subject: [Sanskrit] gOmUtrikAba.ndha (contd.)
Any art that exhibits skills must be judged by the
difficulties encountered while performing it. This
applies to sports such as gymnastics, diving or figure
skating. It is also true for bandha kavitva. So,
what is the degree of difficulty in this?
Step 1. Count all the number of letters in the poem.
Let us say, it is N.
Step 2. Count the number of letters that are common,
say n.
Step 3. The ratio n / (N-n) expressed as a percentage
is the degree of difficulty. One can add an additional
number to the numerator if there are other special
difficulties such as words that are spelled backwards.
If this number is above 50, the exercise is indeed
difficult.
The degree of difficulty is called kashTA.nka.
For the gOmUtrikAba.ndha, it is in the
thirties.
Here is a shlOka from pAdukAsahasram in gOmUtrikAba.ndham.
surAsurArcitA dhanyA
tu.nga ma.ngala pAlikA
carAcarAshritA mAnyA
ra.ngapu.ngava pAdukA
(Pleased by being worshipped by the dEvAs and rAkshasAs,
Protector of the great and auspicious things,
Held in esteem by the moving and permanent ones,
O the pAdukAs of God ra.nganAtha!, I worship thee!)
Kindly view this in Courier fonts. The
ba.ndha will look like this.
su su rci dha tu ma la li
rA rA tA nyA .nga .nga pA kA
ca ca shri mA ra pu va du
The degree of difficulty for this is 33.3%.
kAlidAsa used yamaka in his raghuva.msha quite a
bit. A sarga in the su.ndarakA.nDa has aMtyAnuprAsa.
I reversed the chapters of kirAtArjunIya
and shishupAlavadha in my earlier message.
The chitrapaddhati is present in ch 15 of ka and
ch 19 of sv.
Regards! - J K Mohana Rao
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Message: 6
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 07:30:00 -0700
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [Sanskrit] udyogaparvam - sarga 17 - 13
To: sanskrit@cs.utah.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Translation by Vikram Santurkar under supervision of Dr. Sarasvati Mohan
shlokaH 13
yasmAtpUrvaiH kR^itaM brahma brahmarShibhiranuShThitam .
aduShTa.n dUShayasi vai yachcha mUrdhnyaspR^ishaH padA .. 13..\
padavibhaagaH
yasmAt pUrvaiH kR^itaM brahma brahmarShibhiH anuShThitam .
aduShTa.n dUShayasi vai yat cha mUrdhni aspR^ishaH padA ..
anvayaH
brahma yasmAt pUrvaiH kR^itaM brahmarShibhiH anuShThitam
yat aduShTa.n dUShayasi vai cha mUrdhni padA aspR^ishaH.
pratipadaarthaH
brahma=knowledge(mantras, vedas);
yasmAt=from what;
pUrvaiH=by ancestors;
kR^itaM=was done;
brahmarShibhiH=by the brahma-rishis;
anuShThitam=was established;
yat=Whatever;
aduShTa.n=not impure;
dUShayasi=you make impure;
vai=certainly;
cha=and;
mUrdhni=on the forehead;
padA=by the foot;
aspR^ishaH=you touched;
anuvAdaH
Agastya to Nahusha: Knowledge that was followed by ancestors, established
by the brahma-rishis, that which is pure, you say is wrong and you touched by
foot
on the forehead.
------------------------------
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End of sanskrit Digest, Vol 28, Issue 15
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