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Today's Topics:
1. shatru form (Rajeshwari Hemmadi)
2. Re: Visarga Pronunciation (Karthik Raman)
3. RE: Dharma (Haresh Bakshi)
4. udyogaparvam - sarga 18 - 3 ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
5. Mr Jay Vaidya : Pronunciation of matiH (Jay Vaidya)
6. Re: Dharma (Jean-Yves)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 23:52:44 -0700 (PDT)
From: Rajeshwari Hemmadi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Sanskrit] shatru form
To: sanskrit@cs.utah.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi,
I would like to know about 'shatru' form of verb.
some times 'puling' form ( Prathanma vibhakti ekvachan) ends with 'n' like Gam
(go)- gachhan.... while Da ( give)- 'Dadat' ... what is the rule for that....
when it ends with 'n' & when with 't' ??
with regards
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Message: 2
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 09:45:39 +0530
From: Karthik Raman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Sanskrit] Re: Visarga Pronunciation
To: sanskrit@cs.utah.edu
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Dear Zach
Visarga (H) and Anusvar (M) have a lot of 'interesting' pronunciation.
What I state below is my understanding based on what I have been
taught.
Let's take a few examples (I've used ITRANS-ish representation)
1. rAmaH: pronounced as rAmaha
2. pashubhiH: as pashubhihi
3. rAmayoH: as rAmayoho
4. rAmaiH: as rAmaihi
5. raveH: as ravehe
The basic visarga sound is a ha, but it changed around based on the
previous mAtra.
Critically, the visarga is dropped or a sandhi is introduced or its
pronunciation is changed a bit, when it's part of a sentence and not a
standalone word. (I have a feeling that it is not so carefully
followed in normal sanskrit, but when reciting vedAs, for example,
sentences are rarely split, and the correct pronunciation of visarga
becomes crucial) For example:
1. sItAyAH pataye: is typically pronounced as sItAyAf-pataye (note
'f'!). Alternatively, you could say sItAyAha (pause) pataye.
2. namaH kakubhAya: is pronounced as namah-kakubhAya, clearly
indicating a 'h' sound at namah, but not a namaha.
3. namaH may be changed to namo when it is followed by some
consonants. e.g namaH bhavAya : as namo bhavAya
4. namaH shivAya : as namashshivAya: note the double sh instead of the visarga.
5. namaH IdhriyAya: as nama IdhriyAya: visarga dropped before a vowel
(other than 'a/A'?).
The avagraha may be introduced in the appropriate cases.
6. devaiH sadA: devaissadA (double s instead of visarga) or devaihi sadA
7. yajuH tasmAt: yajustasmAt (sandhi)
8. namaH xullakebhyaH: there is never a sandhi with visarga before xa
(kshha). You indicate a clear pause; namaha-[pause]-xullakebhyaH.....
I have just given a very few examples above. There are obviously a
comprehensive set of rules for sandhi and pronunciation of the
visarga, available on several books. I can try and find out one nice
reference if you do require.
AnusvAr (M) again has quite a few rules. But, practice varies. Often,
people pronounce AnusvAr as 'm', but when it is in a sentence, it is
often pronounced differently:
1. veMkaTesha is actually ve~NkaTesha (anusvar foll. by ka kha ga gha
: pronounced as ~Na)
2. paMcha is actually not pancha but pa~ncha! (anusvar foll. by cha
chha ja jha: pronounced as ~na)
3. shuMDa as shuNDa : anusvar foll. by Ta Tha Da Dha is pronounced as Na
4. AdityaM tarpayAmi: as AdityantarpayAmi
oM namo: as onnamo (anusvar foll. by ta tha da dha : pronounced as na)
5. easy: anusvar foll. by pa pha ba bha: pronounced as ma itself.
6. pavitraM yo: pavitra.Nyyo (that's the closest I can come to in
writing, but the pronunciation is better learnt orally!)
You would agree, that this pronunciation is actually a bit natural and
least strenuous (in terms of altering the mouth/tongue position)!
I would be grateful if some of the more erudite people in this group
can throw further light on this.
Regards
Karthik
--
**************************************************************************
KARTHIK RAMAN
Graduate Research Student
Supercomputer Education and
Research Centre/Bioinformatics Centre
Indian Institute of Science
Bangalore - 560 012
Phone: +91-80-23601409 (Ext 24)
+91-80-22932469 (Ext 24)
+91-98862-22404 (Mobile)
E-mail: karthik AT rishi.serc.iisc.ernet.in
Webpage: http://physics.iisc.ernet.in/~dichome/sumalab/members/karthik/
Blogspot: karthikraman.blogspot.com
**************************************************************************
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 00:21:44 -0400
From: "Haresh Bakshi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: [Sanskrit] Dharma
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], sanskrit@cs.utah.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
namaste divya, the word 'dharma" is used in the Gita many times, but it does
not mean the same thing every time.
dharma [Gita, 2.40.3 etc]. It is widely taken to mean justice, law,
duty, righteousness, noble living, religion, unalterable religious
principles, ones own nature, a system of belief and
philosophy and the like. It is also thought of as the ethical
principle that sustains one and sees one through any
situation.
This is one of the reasons why we need to study the Gita with
an experienced teacher.
dhanyavaadaH |
hareshaH |
----------------------------
Haresh BAKSHI
http://www.SoundOfIndia.com
-----------------------------
>From: Divya Jhingran <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: sanskrit@cs.utah.edu
>Subject: [Sanskrit] Dharma
>Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 20:11:18 -0400
>Patanjali's yoga sutra 111.14 -
> Shanta udita avyapadeshya dharmaan anupati dharmi
> Does the word dharma here have a different meaning from the generally
>understood meaning of the word?
> In the following quote from the Gita (sorry I don't have the reference)
>is
>the word dharma the same as the one above?
> "Sarva dharmaan parityajay maamekam sharanam vraja"
> I was told dharma also means "thing" and in the above context that would
>make sense. It's hard to make sense of otherwise giving up dharma. My book
>translates Patanjali's use of the word dharma as "form" or "substratum".
> If there are two different meanings of the word dharma, does it mean that
>the root forms are also different? In that case, what are the two different
>etymologies?
> Thanks and regards,
>Divya
>_______________________________________________
>sanskrit mailing list
>sanskrit@cs.utah.edu
>http://mailman.cs.utah.edu/mailman/listinfo/sanskrit
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 07:30:00 -0700
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [Sanskrit] udyogaparvam - sarga 18 - 3
To: sanskrit@cs.utah.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Translation by Vikram Santurkar under supervision of Dr. Sarasvati Mohan
shlokaH 3
sarvairdevaiH parivR^itaH shakro vR^itraniShUdanaH .
gandharvairapsarobhishcha yAtastribhuvanaM prabhuH .. 3..\
padavibhAgaH
sarvaiH devaiH parivR^itaH shakraH vR^itraniShUdanaH .
gandharvaiH apsarobhiH cha yAtaH tribhuvanaM prabhuH ..
anvayaH
vR^itraniShUdanaH prabhuH shakraH sarvaiH devaiH
gandharvaiH apsarobhiH cha parivR^itaH tribhuvanaM yAtaH.
pratipadArthaH
vR^itraniShUdanaH=The destroyer of Vritrasura;
prabhuH=the lord;
shakraH=Indra;
sarvaiH=with all;
devaiH=by the gods;
gandharvaiH=by celestial musicians;
apsarobhiH=with celestial beauties;
cha=and;
parivR^itaH=being surrounded;
tribhuvanaM=the kingdom of gods;
yAtaH=went
anuvAdaH
Shalya says: The destroyer of Vritrasura, the lord, Indra, being surrounded by
gods,
celestial musicians, celestial beauties went to the kingdom of gods.
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 06:19:29 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jay Vaidya <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Sanskrit] Mr Jay Vaidya : Pronunciation of matiH
To: sanskrit@cs.utah.edu
Cc: yogesh kale <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
yogesha-mahodaya, svasti
guru-vachanaM sarvath-aiva shirasaa-vandyam | yadA tu
bahavo guravaH, teshhAM tu vachanAni
paraspara-khaNDitAni, bahushrutasy-aachaaryasy-aiva
mataani lokeshhu grahaNiiyaani |
pANinIyAyAM vR^ittau visargasya sthAnaM kaNTha-iti
uktam, visargasya ko.api prayatno na |
yatra yatra varNA aneka-sthAn-ochchaaritaas- tatra
tatra vR^ittau sarva-sthaana-gaNanaM spashhTameva
kR^itam, e-ai-o-au-varNAnaM vishhaye yathaa |
mahaabaleshvara-bhaTTa-guruNaa pratipaaditaani "-hi,
-hu" iti uchchaaraNAni dvi-sthAnAni (kaNTha-tAlu,
kaNTh-oshhTya), sa-prayatnAni cha -- atra
pANinIya-vR^itti-virodhaH | sAmAnya-prayoge
vR^ittir-eva pramANam iti varam | ataH visargasya
"visarjaniiyasya" uchchaaraNaM
kaNThasthita-dhvani-visarjanam, a-prayatnaatmakaH
kaNThasthito dhvani-tyago vaa |
saamaanya-prayoga iti punaH su-spashhTaM hi vaktavyam
| adhyaatma-vishhaye vaiyaakaraNaanaam an-abhiGYataa
sarva-shrutaa vidyate | tatra aatma-prachiitiH
pramANam | moxa-arthaM yat mantrapaThanam, tat
kurutaam yathaa upadishhTaM sva-guruN-aiva |
------------------------------
The teacher's statements must always be honored. When
there are many teachers, and moreover, their
statements contradict one another, the more well known
teacher's opinions are to be accepted in the public.
In the pANinIya vR^itti (the traditional short
commentary to the sUtra-s), the articulation site of
the visarga is given as the throat (gutteral) and it
has no articulatory effort (wind direction by the
inner organs).
Whenever sound-elements have more than one
articulatory site, in those cases the vR^itti clearly
lists all of those sites; for example, for e ai, o au.
The pronunciations that the teacher
mahaabaleshvara-bhaTTa professes, "-hi" and "-hu" are
each with two articulatory sites (throat-palate, and
throat-lips) they have articulatory effort (i.e., wind
direction by internal organs). This contradicts the
pANiniiya vR^itti. For common use, the vR^itti is the
better authority. Hence, the pronunciation of the
visarga (also called the "visarjaniiya") is the
letting go of sound at the throat, with no
articulatory effort (meaning no wind direction).
Again I must stress "for common use". The inexpertness
of grammarians about spiritual matters is well known.
There insight is the authority. If chants are being
chanted for spiritual achievement, then for one's
benefit, one should do as one's own guru advises.
bhavadiiyo
dhana.njayaH
P.S. The vR^itti is to pANini's sUtra 1.1.9, which
refers to phonetic matters.
__________________________________
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------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 19:44:02 -0700
From: "Jean-Yves" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] Dharma
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
<sanskrit@cs.utah.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
namaste divya,
I understand that the word dharma, as many sanskrit words, has a general
meaning wich can take several more specific meanings according the context.
Etymologically , it is said coming from the root Dhru, to hold, maintain,
establish, sustain. Ma may come from the root Maa, to measure. The dharma is
what upholds you as a human being, measures out and holds your developed
humanity, by keeping yourself always to your highest law of becoming.
But as an ethical law, it is also limited, so in order to go into the
Infinite Consciousness, one has to abandon all dharmas and find refuge in
the Supreme alone, as it is said in the Gita. So dharmatyajanam can be, in
certain contexts, the right way, and the refuge, sharanam.
Dharma can hardly mean 'form' or 'substratum' by itself, except if it is
related to svaroopam and svabhaava : From your true nature, svabhaava, a
true law of becoming will express itself rhythmically, svadharma, giving
birth (by its rhythmical repetition) to the stable form of your true being,
svaroopam. From this, the idea of form or substratum might come out, but it
is a very secondary meaning, stretching a bit far the original one.
Generally, dharma is always the law of development or of activity of a
natural being in whatever field. Each natural existence has a dharma of its
own, even time has its rhythmical laws (yugadharma).
sarvesham shaantirbhavatu
jeanyves
----- Original Message -----
From: "Haresh Bakshi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <sanskrit@cs.utah.edu>
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2005 9:21 PM
Subject: RE: [Sanskrit] Dharma
> namaste divya, the word 'dharma" is used in the Gita many times, but it
does
> not mean the same thing every time.
>
> dharma [Gita, 2.40.3 etc]. It is widely taken to mean justice, law,
> duty, righteousness, noble living, religion, unalterable religious
> principles, one's own nature, a system of belief and
> philosophy and the like. It is also thought of as the ethical
> principle that sustains one and sees one through any
> situation.
>
> This is one of the reasons why we need to study the Gita with
> an experienced teacher.
>
> dhanyavaadaH |
> hareshaH |
>
> ----------------------------
> Haresh BAKSHI
> http://www.SoundOfIndia.com
> -----------------------------
>
>
>
>
> >From: Divya Jhingran <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >To: sanskrit@cs.utah.edu
> >Subject: [Sanskrit] Dharma
> >Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 20:11:18 -0400
>
> >Patanjali's yoga sutra 111.14 -
> > Shanta udita avyapadeshya dharmaan anupati dharmi
> > Does the word dharma here have a different meaning from the generally
> >understood meaning of the word?
> > In the following quote from the Gita (sorry I don't have the reference)
> >is
> >the word dharma the same as the one above?
> > "Sarva dharmaan parityajay maamekam sharanam vraja"
> > I was told dharma also means "thing" and in the above context that
would
> >make sense. It's hard to make sense of otherwise giving up dharma. My
book
> >translates Patanjali's use of the word dharma as "form" or "substratum".
> > If there are two different meanings of the word dharma, does it mean
that
> >the root forms are also different? In that case, what are the two
different
> >etymologies?
> > Thanks and regards,
> >Divya
>
>
> >_______________________________________________
> >sanskrit mailing list
> >sanskrit@cs.utah.edu
> >http://mailman.cs.utah.edu/mailman/listinfo/sanskrit
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sanskrit mailing list
> sanskrit@cs.utah.edu
> http://mailman.cs.utah.edu/mailman/listinfo/sanskrit
------------------------------
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