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Today's Topics:
1. Re: sanskrit Digest, Vol 42, Issue 2 Panini and letters
(Michel Bostrom)
2. Re: Sanskrit Digest, Vol 42, Issue 2 Panini and letters
(Lakshmi Gopal)
3. 16 upacArAs (Krishnarao Lanka)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 07:51:36 +1000
From: "Michel Bostrom" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] sanskrit Digest, Vol 42, Issue 2 Panini and
letters
To: <[email protected]>
Message-ID:
<!&[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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Friends,
Dhananjay Sahib has given a very good response to the question. To expect
Panini to have been involved in collecting fairy stories about the inherent
meanings of letters is just the kind of nonsense that obscures, rather than
illuminates, the study of history and of language. Panini was a giant: the
originator of the science of grammar and an logical thinker and literary
composer of extraordinary powers. Do you also want him to be a juggler and
storyteller for the amusement of the masses?
I would like to clarify a seemingly minor, but nevertheless important,
point. Dhananjay Sahib (correctly) writes: "As far as I know writing is not
mentioned, and script is not a part of paaNini's grammar". But he then goes
on to apparently contradict himself by discussing what he says that Panini
said about particular letters!! There is a bit of a mis-fit here. The fact
is that Panini elucidates Sansrit phonetics - the SOUNDS used in speeches,
not the letters used to represent those sounds visually. The science of
phonetics is quite independent of the writing system. That the present
writing system of Sanskrit corresponds to Panini's phonetics is due to the
influence of his work (and that of other ancient writers on the subject),
rather than the other way around.
The symbols used to represent sounds are quite arbitrary, and indeed, the
symbols used to represent the sounds of Sanskrit have varied enormously over
the centuries. At the time of Panini, the most commonly used letters were
probably the "Brahmi" script, which superficially looks nothing like
Devanagari. If you are in Delhi, visit the National Museum on Janpath.
There is a reproduction of one of Ashok's famous stone tablets outside the
entrance written in Brahmi script. It is entirely unintelligible, but each
letter corresponds precisely to one of the sounds described by Panini (and
therefore to an equivalent modern Devanagari letter).
In natural languages it is above all assemblages of sounds that convey
meanings, not their visual representations. If Panini had been
superstitious enough to be interested in the "meanings" of individual sounds
taken individually, you can be sure that he would not have confused the
sound with the letter used to represent it, so the idea that he might have
written a whole book based on such fuzzy thinking is a bit of a put-down to
the great man.
Regards
Michel
Michel Bostr?m
Silver Batts Insulation Systems
12 Church Avenue Mascot NSW
PO Box 1275 Dee Why NSW 2099 Australia
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-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, 15 October 2006 04:00
To: [email protected]
Subject: sanskrit Digest, Vol 42, Issue 2
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: sanskrit Digest, Vol 42, Issue 1 (Jay Vaidya)
2. Question on fonts ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2006 13:58:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jay Vaidya <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] sanskrit Digest, Vol 42, Issue 1
To: [email protected]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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The major works of pANini are:
ashhTaadhyaayii
dhAtupaaTha
gaNapaaTha
pANini also either wrote or modified the shivasuutras, or he may have
adopted them without editing.
The pANiniiya shikshaa is either written by pAnini or his early disciples.
The phiT-suutra and li.ngaanushaasana are also useful appendices while
reading the pANini texts
Of these the shivasuutra and paaNiniiya shikshaa deal with the
classification of letters.
Regarding devanaagarii script: As far as I know writing is not mentioned,
and script is not a part of paaNini's grammar. The devanaagarii script is
nearly, but not completely, adequate to reproduce all the sounds produced by
pANini's study of phonetics. Oral tradition is adequate to maintain the
grammar's structure and teaching. (Though writing makes it convenient to
store the texts in the library.)
In the pANini grammar tradition, individual letters have no meaning, and
their inclusion or exclusion is based on pragmatic (or "scientific")
criteria. These are open for scientific debate. However, extremely
convincing arguments have already been presented - so no one these days has
much to debate regarding inclusion or exclusion of letters in sa.nskita.
Certainly, there are many amusing mythical stories about the sa.nskR^ita
alphabet (but not its "meaning")
For example, I think the poet nandikeshvara wrote the following verse (in
11-12 centry AD: consider that paaNini lived at least around 500 BC or much
more ancient times):
nR^itt-aavasaane naTaraaja-raajo
nanaada Dhakkaa.m navapa.ncha-vaaram |
uddhartu-kaamaH sanak-aadi-siddhaan
etad vimarshe shivasuutrajaalam ||
"I think: to bless sanaka and other seers, the dancer-king-god shiva played
this shiva-suutra-set by sounding the drumlet 14 times."
Clearly, the poet says that this is a literary image.
haradatta mishra of the 10th century AD, also mentions the story that pANini
learned the alphabet from the god mahesvara. None of these writers say that
there is any meaning to the letters. Of course not - that is contrary to the
teachings of pANini's grammar.
Another funny story VAGUELY regarding the meaning of letters is regarding
the letter "u". In the ashhTaadhyaayii, pANini uses the letter "u" to
demonstrate the three different lengths of vowels:
short, long, very long. Why "u"? Why not "i", or "a"?
Grammarians explain that pANini wished to remind his students of the sound
of the rooster.
The English sound-word "cocka-doodle-doo" for the rooster is not so in
sa.nskR^ita, but it is "ku-kuu-kuuu" - illustrating the short, long and very
long vowel sounds. But again, this clever teaching device has nothing to do
with the "meaning" of letters.
If there is a book that tells amusing myths about the "meaning" of letters,
I hope you find it and share the myths with us.
Regards,
Dhananjay
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> ----- Forwarded message from Nitin Dhanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> -----
> > Subject: Searching Book on Panini Sanskrit Grammer ...
> > I am looking for a particular book of Panini in
> which
> > he has given meaning of each Devnagri alphabets.
> If
> > this kind of title is available with you kinldy
> let me
> > know the hyperlink of the same or let me know the exact name of that
> > particular book.
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2006 17:12:10 EDT
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [Sanskrit] Question on fonts
To: [email protected]
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I am using some Sanskrit words in my dissertation in psychology. I wanted
to use transliteration symbols, but the dissertation publisher accepts
limited fonts, and none of the symbols for Sanskrit are among the ones they
support. There seem to be several systems of transliteration -- does
anyone has a sense of the most commonly used academically? Any advice?
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Message: 2
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 07:54:31 +0100
From: Lakshmi Gopal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] Sanskrit Digest, Vol 42, Issue 2 Panini and
letters
To: Michel Bostrom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[email protected]>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
>
> Friends,
>
> Dhananjay Sahib has given a very good response to the question. To expect
> Panini to have been involved in collecting fairy stories about the inherent
> meanings of letters is just the kind of nonsense that obscures, rather than
> illuminates, the study of history and of language. Panini was a giant: the
> originator of the science of grammar and an logical thinker and literary
> composer of extraordinary powers. Do you also want him to be a juggler and
> storyteller for the amusement of the masses?
>
> I would like to clarify a seemingly minor, but nevertheless important,
> point. Dhananjay Sahib (correctly) writes: "As far as I know writing is not
> mentioned, and script is not a part of paaNini's grammar". But he then goes
> on to apparently contradict himself by discussing what he says that Panini
> said about particular letters!! There is a bit of a mis-fit here. The fact
> is that Panini elucidates Sansrit phonetics - the SOUNDS used in speeches,
> not the letters used to represent those sounds visually. The science of
> phonetics is quite independent of the writing system. That the present
> writing system of Sanskrit corresponds to Panini's phonetics is due to the
> influence of his work (and that of other ancient writers on the subject),
> rather than the other way around.
>
> The symbols used to represent sounds are quite arbitrary, and indeed, the
While I agree with the point that it may be true that the written form of
each letter has no meaning, I do believe that each individual akshara
(regardless of the script it is written in) has a meaning or various
meanings. These are not specific meanings but more senses. I have actually
experienced this. Shyam Ghosh a very well known and respected Sanskrit
Scholar who was a contemporary of Gandhi and Nehru confirms this in either
the preface or the introduction of his book "Rgveda for the Layman." It is
really a very interesting introduction very much worth reading. The book is
available at Bagchee.com. Unfortunately I don't have my copy with me,
otherwise I would have typed out some of the examples he gives.
http://www.bagchee.com/BookDisplay.aspx?Bkid=B13682#TC
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 12:33:59 +0530
From: "Krishnarao Lanka" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Sanskrit] 16 upacArAs
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED],
[EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED],
"Neeraj Sukhavasi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Nityakalyan
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>From :-- SrIparasuKAnandanAtha
date :-- October 17, 2006
Subject :-- ShODaSOpacara pUjA
Priya mahASayAh,
In my opinion, we must have some understanding, why we
should do any upacArAs in the name of any god or deity.Otherwise it would be
meaningless and, waste of time and energy too. Neither any deity needs any
upacArA nor this drop of water reaches that far off distance. It can`t be
different from the children`s play with his toys. Actions and speeches
without any meaning will become some mad man`s guestures. I wish to present
you the way of my understanding while performing each of the upacAra.
I don't say, all these are authentic and bear only this meaning. These are
some guidelines for the devotees, by which they will be
able to formulate their own interpretation.
For any god or deity, we perform sixteen types of services
(ShODaSOpacAras), viz., 1.dhyAm, 2.asanam, 3.pAdyam,
4.arGyam, 5.AcamanIyam, 6.snAnam, 7.vastram, 8.yag~nopavItam 9.gandham 10.
puShpam 11.dhUpam 12.dIpam 13.naivEdyam
14.tambUlam 15.nIrajanam and 16.mantrapuShpam. The meaning, how I interpret
for myself is narrated hereunder.
1. dhyAnam and AvAhanam :-- We meditate upon the deity which in reality has
no form nor any name for it.. But we wish it should
have some form as we imagine it to be, and we also apply a name for it
also. It is a kind of monistic dualism. We know it is none else
but our own self. But we want to see it in a form and in a name
according to our needs and fancies, while being in gr^ihastha Asramam.
You are meditating upon your own self which is glowing like a flame of
light, bring it out through your left nostril into some flower
in your hand, put it on the idol you worship every day. The idol after
acquiring your own life force (which is the most dearest for you)
is becoming your most beloved and divine, worthy of receiving any
services from you. You are simultaneously visualizing your own
prANaSakti both in your heart region (hr~idayam) and also out side of you.
In this way you are practicing to see your own self
in whole of the universe. "antar bahisca tat sarvam vyApya nArayaNah
sthitah"
2. Asanam :-- You are collecting all your senses and blending them into one
concentration with a feeling of "aham brahmAsmi" to install your
dearest deity in it.
3. pAdyam :-- This is to wash the dirt on the feet of the deity. The dirt
is nothing but the feeling of difference with god. If we wash this
kind of difference, the deity and your self will become one and the same.
"dEvO BhUtwA dEvam yajEt", You should not worship any
god without yourself becoming that god.
4. arGhyam :-- Water used for washing hands. It is washing out the past
karmas (deeds), and reaching the state of pUrNa Ananda
(absolute bliss) having no wishes or desires, desist of every thing in
mind.
5. Acamanam :-- This is an act of purification of body and soul. It is
bestowing the divine experience into your mortal soul by acquiring
the knowledge of "SivOham". you are experiencing your own soul as the
self existent and uninterrupted illumination.
6. snAnam :-- This is to create nectarine stream from your brahma randhra,
and make it flow into all of your 72 thousand nAdis, You should
not forget that you are meditating upon your own self which itself is
the "ananta kAla swarUpa paramAtma.
7. vastram :-- Enveloped with absolute bliss after the experience of the
flash of the cid rUpa paramAnanda Sakti.
8. yag~nOpavItam :-- Visualizing the 24 tattwas having three knots
(grandhis) within yourself. (suShumnA vikAsam)
9. Gandham :-- Perception of aroma of the "sat". The presiding seat of the
olfactory senses is 'buddhi' (the intellect). By offering
this gandham (sanda paste) you are mitigating the 'viShaya jaData'
(obtuseness in recognizing paramAtma).
10. puSpam :-- It is just wrapping up and concealing the image of the idol
only to realize that that form is not your target of devotion.
The flower is belonging to "AkASa tattwam", "Sabda tanmAtra
prakr^itikam", The intellect is the presiding place for auditory senses.
The god actually requires the flowers bloomed in the sky, not in the
plants. (try to understand it please)
11. dhUpam :-- This is used as a drying agent. We have to scorch up the
muddy moisture of our intellect, otherwise
called 'avidya'. dhUpam is sparSa tanmAtra prakr^itikam (touch
sense), The presiding place of this also is intellect.
12. dIpam :-- "cakSuradhyAtmam draShtavyam adhiBhUtam Adityas tatrAdhi
daivatam".
God does not need any artificial light. It is only for us to see god
who resides inside of us and not out side.
The viewer is yourself, object is god and the insight (antar dr^iSti)
is Aditya the divinity is the target.
You have to see inside of you to see god. Then only you can become
divine.
13. naivEdyam :-- There are six places in the tongue to recognize the six
kinds of tastes. All of these six tastes
take shelter in the intellect only. Our life style also is
multitudinous. But every thing of it has to be merged
only in one object. We have to submit every thing of us for the god`s
enjoyment. (ShadrasOpEtam BhOjanam).
14. tAmbUlam :-- The leaf, nut and the lime chewed together creates a new
red colour. "avasthA traya BhAva
aBhAva sAkShi caitanyam.". Meditating upon "turIya avastha". That
is jIvanmukta avastha.
15. NIrAjanam :-- The camphor when lit, it is consumed till the last
entirety without leaving any residue. This is
"nirbija avastha". Within the fifteen moon phases, there is also
another phase which is concealed inside all of them.
its name is "AmA". It doesn't have any sequences of growth or
decay. This is the candra kala which has received
the award of honours by the lord paramEswara, by implanting it on
the top of his own head.
The luminescence of it is indescribable. We have to prostrate and
surrender before that 'durAdharsha'.
16. mantrapuShpam :-- Your hr^idayam itself is the 'punDarIka
puShpam". "punDarIkam
akShNOtIti puNDarIkAkShah".
Reflect deeply on that puNDarIkAkSha with that 'puNDarIka puShpam'.
Then you are performing pradakShiNa namaskAram with an
intention of visualizing yourself as the consistence of
your own body as well as the whole universe of fourteen worlds as the
virAt purusha yourself.
With this exhilarating bliss of felicity you are offering the
"rAjOpacArAs" and "devOpacAras", after submitting your
whole of praNa Sakti and saying, "I am you and you are I"
"AnandO brahma", "aKaNDaika rasOsmyaham"
SrIparasuKAnandanAdha
--
Krishnarao Lanka
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