On Thu, Sep 25, 2008 at 3:53 PM, Lion Kimbro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > These are the discussion notes from the Sacred Books > gathering we had at Saturday House, 2008-09-13.
If this (or something similar) is organized again, I'd like to talk about the impact of my college compilers course on my comprehension of programming, debugging, and realization of the real-world impacts of computer science research on the 'real world'. Unfortunately, I did not like the book we used (Aho et al. -- the dragon book) for very trivial reasons (they wrote it with troff?? why?! Maybe there is another lesson here: Knuth is, at times, right :).) So, I don't know of a specific resource to point people to who want to have similar revelations. The dragon book may be great for that, but I couldn't bring my self to read enough of it to find it worthwhile. --Rogan > > Enjoy! > > > --- > > > > Sacred Books Gathering > > 2008-09-13 > > > ================================== > > #1 > > Margret Barkley > > "Tales of the Sufis," or "Sufi Tales" > > > Fairy tales from 1,001 Knights; A way of teaching by telling > stories. Like Aesop's Fables, which are 1st level teachings from > the stories. > > We talked of the roles that fairy tales have in a society. Modern > myths are on the order of the search for love, or good against evil. > But these are not common themes in indigenous cultures -- histories, > walkabout stories, creation stories. > > There was talk of fairy tales corrupted by Disney, mythologies of > Europe as pagan stories overlayed by Christianity. > > Alladin's Lamp as a symbol of our lives: We get three wishes; How > will we spend them? > > Training to follow Spirit? Or training to follow Earthly authority. > > Margaret says that lack of tradition is a major problem in our > society. Child abuse, suffering, being conquered. > > The phrase "walking zombie-ism" came up. > > > - - - - - - > > #2 > > Brian Rue > > "Sandman," by Neil Gaiman > > "Thus Spoke Zarathusthra," by Nietchze > > "Sex and Bacon", by Sarah Katherine Lewis > > Brian worked at a comic store in the past. He likes multilayered, > deep stories. > > "Are sandman stories deep, or superficial," Margaret asks. > Definitely deep. "Does sandman change?" Yes. > > It's not clear wheter the divinities are corporeal or not. Do they > create humanity or vice versa? It isn't clear. > > A magical reality. > > > Thus Spoke Zarathusra: A series of short stories. A hermit in a > cave comes out, and addresses the public, thinking he knows > something. "I have spoken!" > > 3 stages of a hero journey: > > 1. to become a Camel, collecting things for the journey, and moving > forward > > 2. to become a Lion, a strong beast- "thou shall, thous shalt not;" > to slay a Dragon; what you can & cannot do > > 3. to become a child -- things you didn't know, a multitude of ways > or perspectives, seeing difference & diversity -- not an end > destination. > > The Uberman: Difference in society; Common people vs. an elite. > > An appeal to people to form elite, to construct societies, a > government, from these concepts in this book. > > It was about 12:40 at this time, so we skipped "Sex & Bacon." > > > - - - - - - > > #3 > > Sarah > > "The Meaning of Life from a Buddhist Perspective," > by the Dalai Lama > > "The Serpent and the Rainbow", by Wade Davis > > "Skinny Legs & All", by Tom Robbins > > The Meaning of Life from a Buddhist Perspective is written from a 5 > day seminar with the Dalai Lama, including a Questions & Answers > session with the audience. > > Someone had asked about attachment and personal affections - is > romantic love (for example,) or married love an obstacle to the path > of love for all people. > > I'm not sure I'm recording this right, but my memory is that the > answer in the book was about extending attachments out to everyone; > viewing it perhaps not necessarily as dropping attachments, but > another way of thinking about it as extending attachments to all > people. > > Love towards all, manifesting in different emotions: love, > compassion, faith. > > "To what extent does the lack of a creator God limit our ability to > work with people who do have a personal, creator God?" Not sure > what I remember being said; Something on the order of exalting the > differences of the other, respecting uniqueness, these all being > different ways of experiencing the ultimate. > > The Serpent & the Rainbow is by a guy who does Ted Talks. The book > (or Ted talk?) involves Haitian Zombies; Another involves an > indigenous culture in the "Sierra Madres," somewhere around South > America (?). > > "You say you went to the moon, we don't believe you. You say we > don't reach enlightenment, but we do." > > Skinny Legs & All by Tom Robbins is different. Mention also of > "Dance of the 7 Veils." A woman is clothed in 7 veils; As parts of > her philosophy that have blinded her fall away, so goes a veil. > > Duscussion of religion, dogma, and tradition being a blinding force, > an obstacle to humanity. "Religion is not just an opiate of the > masses, it is cyanide." > > > - - - - - - > > #4 > > John Lynch > > "The Alchemist," by Paulo Coelho > > A young shepard, studying Alchemy. Undergoing hardships, working > towards a dream. He literally transforms his soul into goal, making > real gold. A story about following your bliss & striving to follow > things through. > > The book describes different ways of getting on track. (Other two > [somethings] didn't work.) > > Does it rely on divine intervention? Not really; But there is > serendipity. Something about high ethics. > > Brian Rice asked about methods of meeting challenge. John: Sticking > to. And if you follow your heart's desire, the world will > co-conspire with you to make it a reality. > > John described being a painter -- not an easy path. > > > - - - - - - > > #5 > > Will Beaty > > "The Amateur Scientist," C.L. **STONG** > > "The Complete Crumb Comics Vol. 17", Robert Crumb > > The theme is science and modern culture. > > Will described The Amateur Science as the "Dark Bible of American > Culture," and connected Science with Materialism. > > Will asked, "Where did technical culture come from?" And he'd talk > with scientists, and "The Amateur Scientist" kept coming back up. > All of our material world power, put into one single place. > > Dangerous teechnologies. How to make X and Gamma rays. Cloud > chambers. Every field. > > "If you want to corrupt a culture, give them this book. Then come > back in a few years, and their world will be covered in concrete." > > Strong ambivalence about science. "This is how the downtrodden nerd > type gets power-- 'I'll show you.'" Downtrodden nerds, the dark > sorcerers of the world. "How to create the modern technical world." > > This book totally altered society. Make your own geiger counter. > The childhood of technical people in the 1950's, 1960's. "The > spells have escaped." > > Life lessons as lessons of power? Spiritual development required, > the problem is that we get technical power without accompanying > spiritual development. "You could do good with it, but people use > it for all sorts of things." > > "I'm a dilettante, and my [?] doesn't matter." > > "I'm just a technician, I'm just..." > > If something could cause people to be non-materialistic, would it be > good? > > Nerd fantasies of power from below. > > Then, The Complete Crumb. An important book in "What made you who > you are today?" Crumb was the wimpy guy all the women hate. > > Portrayal of the ugly. Drawing/writing a self-therapy: Crumb really > started that. > > > - - - - - - > > #6 > > Brian Rice > > "Trilogy," by H.D > > "Understanding Computers and Cognition" > > "Backwards down the Path" > > "Introduction to Metaphysics," Heidegger > > "On the Way to Language," Heidegger > > "Ghost in the Shell (1+2)," by Masamune Shirou > > "The Way of Chuang Tzu" > > "The Zen Way to the Marshall Arts" > > "The Book of 5 Rings" > > "Battle Angel Alita" > > "The Art of the Metaobject Protocol" > > "The Kin of Ata" > > "Exterminator!", by William Burroughs > > Brian Rice, by far, brought the most books. > > He layed them down in an arrangement on the floor, and then began > working through it. > > First was "Backward down the path," which he described as a very > dense, very difficult translation of the Tao Te Ching. > > He also had "The Way of Chuang Tzu," a more approachable read. > > Brian Rice had some books on mathematics, abstract algebra, and > topology. "Computer Science is as much about computers as Astronomy > is about telescopes." > > "The Zen Way to the Marshall Arts," and "The Book of 5 Rings," by > Misashi Miyamoto. > > We talked about hacking language. > > We talked about emptiness providing form in the Tao, and we talked > about "fixed is dead," that fixation or unchangingness is death. > > There is a sense of something evolving within science, and > technology -- "Ghost in the Shell" speaks to these intuitions. It's > rather deep, though, and difficult to express in conversation, much > less 5 minutes. > > "Battle Angel Alita" is in a similar way. "Can human beings escape > their karma," a professor asks in the story? But his experiments > end up turning people into monsters. > > "The Art of the Metaobject Protocol." It's "computer science > metaphysics," or "metaphysics for programmers." Difficult to > describe to a general audience, but it's about mutable object > systems. > > Then there was "the Kin of Ata," on the role of dreaming in life. > (Margret, I think, said something about the basis of the dreaming > visions coming from Greenland or Iceland? A suspicion of > plagerism.) Brian described it as "New Age," (and thus with some > suspicion,) but said that he also found a lot of value in it, even > though he said it doesn't obviously fit in with the rest of the > books he brought. > > Then there was "Exterminator!", by William Burroughs. He > recommended "Exterminator!" *instead of* Naked Lunch. It's about > the ugly soul of materialist white culture. > > The ease of automation, of absolute control, leading to a sort of > evil. > > "William Buroughs would sense dark evil in things like, > ... ...washing the dishes," Brian said. "The brutality of common > things." > > Now, I wrote down "Freedom Ghost of Change" in my notes, and I have > *no idea* what I meant when I wrote that. > > > ENDING: > > I took the policy of going in a session for a sense of "fullness," > rather than "maximum words for unit of time." This is, "Quality > over Quantity." However, it did mean that not everyone got a turn. > > I apologized that I had not reserved enough time for everyone. It > worked out to about 20 minutes per person, for 6 people, over two > hours. > > In the future, it may be better to just say, "20 minutes per > person," and base the duration on the number of participants, or cap > participation at 6-9 people (2-3 hours.) > > Finally, a thank-you to everyone for coming! > > > ================================== > > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ Website: http://saturdayhouse.org/ Post: [email protected] Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
