Hi all, Very good questions.
I think a service like the one you describe would be useful mostly as a way of identifying the depth of the problem. Simply wielding a tool as a consultant does nothing to train the guys creating bugs not to do so in the future...and so the market will correct that over time in an efficient way. But the fact remains that many potential customers and users of static analysis tools have no idea how much of a mess they have. An outsourcing approach could help with that. They'll find out they need em. I believe so strongly in the "do anything to get started" thing that I also endorse the use of (really amazingly silly) application security testing tools. I call these badnessometers (see chapter 1 of "software security"...and ken's slides for that matter). But knowing that your web code sucks is better than remaining completely clueless. In the end, tool integration *into dev* is the key to success with static analysis. Many of our customers are having huge enterprise-wide success because they are learning to use, feed, tune, and train dev about these tools. The best are recycling the things they learn about their code back into training (and into better rules to enforce). gem company www.cigital.com podcast www.cigital.com/silverbullet book www.swsec.com. -----Original Message----- From: McGovern, James F (HTSC, IT) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tue Jan 02 12:23:50 2007 To: sc-l@securecoding.org Subject: [SC-L] Building Security In vs Auditing I read a recent press release in which a security vendor (names removed to both protect the innocent along with the fact that it doesn't matter for this discussion ) partnered with a prominent outsourcing firm. The press release was carefully worded but if you read into what wasn't said, it was in my opinion encouraging something that folks here tend to fight against. The outsourcing firm would use this tool in an auditing capacity for whatever client asked for another service but it would not become part of the general software development lifecycle for all projects. - It didn't mention any notion of all developers within the outsourcing firm having tools on their desktop to audit as they develop - It didn't mention any notion of training all developers within the outsourcing firm on secure coding practices - It did hint that one time periodic audits from a metrics perspective would be useful to clients that wanted this new service but didn't say how developers would be able to iterate on the code and reduce bugs. I would think that any offering that removes developers from the feedback loop while developing code and instead focusing on management-oriented (non-developer metrics) is generally a bad idea. - It didn't mention even how many folks from their security practice were to receive training in secure coding practices - Should we think of security as an extra "service" or something that should be incorporated into the SDLC in a consistent sustainable manner? I am far offbase and drunk too much of Ken Van Wyk's Kool-aid from his wonderful training course by thinking that this type of initiative does more harm than good? ************************************************************************* This communication, including attachments, is for the exclusive use of addressee and may contain proprietary, confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, copying, disclosure, dissemination or distribution is strictly prohibited. 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