Ok, this still doesn't quite click for me - but I may still be misunderstanding:
> What we do now, is compare your scores of the position before 46.Ke6+ > was played and after it was played. If the score-before is better (for > white) than the score-after then, depending on the score difference, > we annotate a variation for white's game move. This comparing of the score before the move and after the move still seems strange. What if as white, you were losing and facing a mate in 5 from black. In this case, no matter what move you make - the score before each given move will be better than the score after (even when it's the "best" move)? -Matt On Thu, 2010-12-16 at 15:00 -0600, Matthew Twomey wrote: > Joost, > > Apologies for the slow reply here. I'm still digesting what you've said. > Regarding the specific method of annotation, I think I get it now. The > key, for me, was here: > > > > What we do now, is compare your scores of the position before 46.Ke6+ > > > was played and after it was played. > > What I though would happen is that it would compare the score of the > position after 46.Ke6+ was played with the score after 46.Ne4 (the > engine's suggested move) was played. > > Thanks for the clarification. > > -Matt > > This reply is taking me a long time because I'm still trying to get my > > On Tue, 2010-11-30 at 08:48 +0100, Joost 't Hart wrote: > > On 11/30/2010 01:47 AM, Matthew Twomey wrote: > > > On Mon, 2010-11-29 at 09:10 +0100, Joost 't Hart wrote: > > >> On 11/29/2010 02:44 AM, Matthew Twomey wrote: > > >> > > >> Hi, > > >> > > >> Good that it works a bit more to your liking now! > > >> > > >> <zip> > > >> > > >>> I also did an analysis with Stockfish, and I am noticing one strange > > >>> behavior. In the annotation, it's showing a Mate-in-X that is one more > > >>> that it should be. For example, it's showing: > > >>> > > >>> ##### > > >>> 46.Ke6+ +-- > > >>> Stockfish 1.9.1 JA 64bit: 100:M4 > > >>> > > >>> (46.Ne4 48:M4 46..Kc8 47.Bg3 Kd8 48.Nc5 Kc8 49.Ra8#) > > >>> ##### > > >>> > > >>> So in the annotation, it's reporting this variation as "M4" but > > >>> shouldn't it be showing up as "M3"? When I look at the actual engine > > >>> window, it's showing "M3". It's doing this with all mate-in-x > > >> I am not sure we are in sync here: > > >> > > >> The line starting with 46.Ne4 is a mate in 4 moves, ending with 49.Ra8# > > >> I cannot see how that should be an M3. > > >> > > >> As to the engine window, which position is on the board when it shows > > >> M3? The position before or after 46.Ne4 has been played? > > >> > > >> Cheers, > > >> Joost. > > > Joost, > > > > > > The engine window shows M3 after 46.Ne4 has been played. I definitely > > > could be misinterpreting or misunderstand the exact nature of the > > > annotation, but it still appears inconsistent to me. Let me try to > > > elaborate. In the example above, I understand (correctly?) that the > > > first part of the annotation shows the evaluation of the move that was > > > actually made: > > > > > > ##### > > > 46.Ke6+ +-- > > > Stockfish 1.9.1 JA 64bit: 100:M4 > > > ##### > > > > > > This indicates that *after* 46.Ke6+ the position evaluates to M4 (this > > > is confirmed via the engine window). Now the second part of evaluation: > > > > > > ##### > > > (46.Ne4 48:M4 46..Kc8 47.Bg3 Kd8 48.Nc5 Kc8 49.Ra8#) > > > ##### > > > > > > This is showing an evaluation of M4, but here it's showing the > > > evaluation *before* 46.Ne4. So in the first case, the evaluation is > > > based on the situation after move 46 for white, and in the second case > > > it's showing the evaluation before move 46 for white. > > > > > > So it's possible that this is the intended behavior, but I'm just not > > > sure. What I though the annotation would tell me is the "score" of the > > > move I made, and the "score" of the suggested move. Please let me know > > > if you believe I'm simply misunderstanding. > > > > Matt, > > > > It is just a detail. And no misunderstanding, I think. > > > > And I must ask you the wrong question: picture yourself in the position > > of the engine :-) > > > > What scid does is just autoplay the moves from the game. So every once > > in a while you are told to stop thinking and tell us what you consider best. > > > > So after black's move 45, you start thinking about white's 46th. And you > > see a mate in 4 line, starting with 46.Ne4. We stop your thought, you > > tell us the M4 line starting with Ne4 and we restart your thinking after > > putting 46.Ke6+ on the board. In this position you look for the best > > line for black and - after we stopped you - you report your verdict on > > the position. > > > > What we do now, is compare your scores of the position before 46.Ke6+ > > was played and after it was played. > > If the score-before is better (for white) than the score-after then, > > depending on the score difference, we annotate a variation for white's > > game move. > > > > Got it? So the score you see after 46.Ke6+ is really the score after > > 46.Ke6 was played (and assuming black will answer best). The score you > > see after 46.Ne4 is what the engine saw coming before 46.Ke6+ was played. > > > > As to the mating length: UCI reports the length in moves, that is, plies > > by both black and white. This may look confusing, depending on who has > > the move in the mating position. Put a position on the board in which > > white can produce a mate but it is black to move. > > > > Start from (edit/setup start board) W: Kb6, Rb2; B: Ka8 with white to move. > > > > The engine will report 1.Rd2 (or whatever) ... Kb8 2. Rd8# > > Now make the move 1.Rb4 > > > > There is still a mate (... Kb8 2.Rc4! Ka8 3.Rc8#). Look at the engine's > > M numbers. > > > > Cheers, > > Joost. > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > -Matt > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Lotusphere 2011 > Register now for Lotusphere 2011 and learn how > to connect the dots, take your collaborative environment > to the next level, and enter the era of Social Business. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/lotusphere-d2d > _______________________________________________ > Scid-users mailing list > Scid-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/scid-users ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Lotusphere 2011 Register now for Lotusphere 2011 and learn how to connect the dots, take your collaborative environment to the next level, and enter the era of Social Business. http://p.sf.net/sfu/lotusphere-d2d _______________________________________________ Scid-users mailing list Scid-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/scid-users
