Re: [scifinoir2] COMMENTARY: Can 'Wonder Woman' succeed purely as action hero?

[Tracey de Morsella (formerly Tracey L. Minor)]

FANWOMAN HERE!!!!!!

The Yokozuna Of Soul wrote:
>
>
> You know..fan-man. The guy who is in Vegas for the Trek conventions
> but plays it off by gambling in the lobby. The guy who says "with
> great power comes great responsibility" in staff meetings. The guy
> who wears his workout clothes under his suit so he can rip open
> his shirt and take off his glasses as he heads into the locker room
> at the gym. The guy who has his sick days at work scheduled to
> coincide with the opening of sci-fi movies. ( no lie. I had an
> appointment with a "Dr. Crusher" on my schedule the day First
> Contact came out and nobody on my staff blinked.) Fanboy is rude. And
> often wrong. Fanman is proud. Fanboy wants it for free. Fanman is
> willing to pay. A little.
>
> Does Fanman walk alone here tonight?!
>
> On Feb 8, 2007, at 6:45 PM, Tracey de Morsella (formerly Tracey L.
> Minor) wrote:
>
> > OK, inquiring minds want to know, what is a fan man?
> >
> > Tracey
> >
> > The Yokozuna Of Soul wrote:
> > >
> > > I was a fanboy for many, many years. It's an important phase to go
> > > through. It allows you to sit through bad Prince albums, Thandie
> > > Newton's "performance" in MI:2, etc. But then I became...fanMAN. Now
> > > I only use my otaku skills for GOOD.
> > >
> > > On Feb 8, 2007, at 6:10 PM, Martin wrote:
> > >
> > > > I believe that it's a moderate derogatory toward genre fans. At
> > > > least that's how *I* look at it. Never been called it. If so, I'd
> > > > be busy making licence plates instead of regaling you...
> > > >
> > > > "Tracey de Morsella (formerly Tracey L. Minor)"
> > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> <mailto:tdlists%40multiculturaladvantage.com>
> > > <mailto:tdlists%40multiculturaladvantage.com>> wrote: I have
> > heard the
> > > term
> > > > "fanboys" but I don't know what it means. Can
> > > > somebody clarify?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks
> > > >
> > > > tracey
> > > >
> > > > Martin wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Whenever I do, it seems as though they're trying to be the
> > online
> > > > > version of Starlog. Apologies for any shocks to the system I may
> > > > have
> > > > > caused. THey seem to bemore fanboys than fans, and I abhor
> > > > fanboys. To
> > > > > them, it's not SF, it's reality they just can't experience
> > first-
> > > > hand.
> > > > >
> > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:KeithBJohnson%40comcast.net> 
> <mailto:KeithBJohnson%40comcast.net>
> > > <mailto:KeithBJohnson%40comcast.net>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > Why do you say that? I've never read their site much.
> > > > >
> > > > > -------------- Original message --------------
> > > > > From: Martin
> > > > > Remember at all times, keith- this is someone from SyFy talking.
> > > > Their
> > > > > acquaintance with the genre is passing at best, IMO.
> > > > >
> > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:KeithBJohnson%40comcast.net> 
> <mailto:KeithBJohnson%40comcast.net>
> > > <mailto:KeithBJohnson%40comcast.net>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > Some comments on her comments:
> > > > >
> > > > > One, I'd take Whedon's work anyday over many others, but I was
> > > > > concerned he was going to do another "Buffy" treatment on Wonder
> > > > > Woman. I think I'd read that he planned to make Diana younger
> > > > than is
> > > > > typically portrayed in comics--probably more like 19 or 20, as
> > > > opposed
> > > > > to Diana's apparent age of mid- to late-twenties. Whedon
> > loves very
> > > > > young women, but I really wasn't looking forward to another
> > young
> > > > > waiflike girl dealing with pain and heartache. Thats one
> > reason I
> > > > > didnt' like Kate Bosworth as Lois Lane: she looked and acted too
> > > > young
> > > > > for my tastes. I'd rather deal with the more mature warrior
> > than the
> > > > > little girl lost in Patriarch's World. Someone like Charisma
> > > > Carpenter! :)
> > > > >
> > > > > Having Wonder Woman in WWII is not necessarily a bad thing,
> > if done
> > > > > well. If we could get the guys behind "Hellboy" or "V: For
> > Vendetta"
> > > > > to do it, WWII could be a fantastic backdrop for a superhero
> > battle.
> > > > > Often some of the coolest scifi is set in the time period of
> > rougly
> > > > > from the 1890s to the 1940s. Something about the old tech--
> > vacuum
> > > > > tubes, Iron Giant looking robots, etc.--is often really cool in
> > > > scifi
> > > > > themes. The only issue they seem to have overlooked is that
> > Wonder
> > > > > Woman in WWII has been retconned by DC to be Queen Hippolyta,
> > > > Diana's
> > > > > mother. Diana was thus the second woman to wear the mantle of
> > Wonder
> > > > > Woman, and did it in modern times.
> > > > >
> > > > > I disagree with her that "Sin City" was a snoozefest (it was
> > great),
> > > > > that "Hellboy" was only passable (it was awesome), and so was
> > > > > "Fantastic Four" (it sucked).
> > > > >
> > > > > -------------- Original message --------------
> > > > > From: "Tracey de Morsella (formerly Tracey L. Minor)"
> > > > > Action Or Angst? What Do We Want In Our Superheroes?
> > > > > COMMENTARY: Can 'Wonder Woman' succeed purely as action hero?
> > > > >
> > > > > By ROBIN BROWNFIELD
> > > > > Source: SyFy Portal
> > > > > Feb-04-2007
> > > > >
> > > > > When Joss Whedon announced almost two years after signing on to
> > > > write
> > > > > and direct a "Wonder Woman" movie that he was no longer attached
> > > > to the
> > > > > project, the air of shock around the Internet was almost
> > palpable.
> > > > >
> > > > > Around the same time, David S. Goyer, who wrote the story and
> > co-
> > > > wrote
> > > > > the screenplay for "Batman Begins," was told his vision for the
> > > > movie
> > > > > "The Flash" was not what Warner Bros. producers wanted, and the
> > > > movie
> > > > > has been shelved for now.
> > > > >
> > > > > The story behind the "Wonder Woman" movie, it seems, is that
> > Warner
> > > > > Bros. has purchased a speculative script from newcomers Matthew
> > > > Jennison
> > > > > and Brent Strickland, and is ready to bring them on board to
> > replace
> > > > > Whedon.
> > > > >
> > > > > All this leads to the question, "What do people want out of a
> > > > superhero
> > > > > movie? An escapist action romp or fully fleshed-out characters
> > > > facing
> > > > > the most painful decisions of their lives?"
> > > > >
> > > > > While it is uncertain what Whedon has done with "Wonder Woman,"
> > > > it seems
> > > > > Joel Silver and company want an action-oriented story set
> > against
> > > > the
> > > > > backdrop of World War II -- the time period when Wonder Woman
> > comics
> > > > > debuted. Whedon's vision places Princess Diana in the present
> > > > day. Based
> > > > > on his previous works ("Buffy the Vampire Slayer," "Angel,"
> > > > "Firefly,"
> > > > > "Serenity"), one can safely assume that his Wonder Woman
> > would be a
> > > > > fully fleshed out character, complete with goddess-like
> > strength,
> > > > and
> > > > > human foibles. She would most likely be surrounded by fully
> > > > developed
> > > > > supporting characters, and the story that unwinds would largely
> > > > grow out
> > > > > from and be advanced by the characters themselves.
> > > > >
> > > > > We could also count on sharp, engaging dialogue where every
> > word is
> > > > > measured and infused with meaning.
> > > > >
> > > > > A synopsis of the Jennison/Strickland script has been posted
> > on the
> > > > > Internet. It is filled with highly charged action, it appears to
> > > > move
> > > > > quickly, and is balanced with sharp contrasts between scenes. It
> > > > looks
> > > > > like it could be exciting, but because there is no dialogue,
> > and the
> > > > > focus is strictly on the action in the movie, it makes me
> > fear that
> > > > > there will be little in the way of actual character development.
> > > > There
> > > > > also is no indicator as to whether the two can write dialogue
> > > > well. It's
> > > > > possible that they can, but in the end, what I read is the basis
> > > > for a
> > > > > largely formulaic movie with lots of loud sounds, flashy
> > visuals and
> > > > > action. I don’t see the
> > groundwork laid for
> > > > creating characters people
> > > > > in the audience can identify with.
> > > > >
> > > > > People need to be able to identify with the characters in a
> > > > movie. They
> > > > > have to be able to feel with the characters and understand
> > why it is
> > > > > they do what they do. The X-Men and Spider-Man movies have been
> > > > the best
> > > > > of any in the genre. X-Men movies have been analogous to the
> > > > struggles
> > > > > with racism and homophobia. In both X-Men and Spider-Man,
> > people can
> > > > > identify with the characters' perpetually feeling like
> > outsiders.
> > > > Each
> > > > > has unique qualities that allow them to do amazing things,
> > and yet,
> > > > > people in general and/or in their immediate surroundings,
> > rarely, if
> > > > > ever, recognize and appreciate this.
> > > > >
> > > > > Most real people can identify with this scenario. How many of us
> > > > have
> > > > > proven time and time again that we are unique, intelligent and
> > > > superbly
> > > > > talented people whose accomplishments go largely unnoticed by
> > > > many or
> > > > > most of the people around us? It is the same kind of scenario
> > > > that makes
> > > > > "Buffy" so popular. We now see the same happening with
> > characters
> > > > in the
> > > > > TV show "Heroes."
> > > > >
> > > > > It was Peter Parker's angst that drew me to Spider-Man comics as
> > > > a kid.
> > > > > I often skipped over the action parts of the stories just to
> > > > catch what
> > > > > was happening in Peter's world. I still remember Duo Damsel
> > > > heartbroken
> > > > > because she was in love with Superboy, but knew he was destined
> > > > to end
> > > > > up with someone else. Things like that got to me as a child, and
> > > > they
> > > > > still get to me as an adult.
> > > > >
> > > > > Wonder Woman often struggled with being a powerful woman who was
> > > > rarely
> > > > > appreciated for it in a man's world. Angst is what makes these
> > > > heroes
> > > > > accessible to an audience. Going through the human experience
> > > > even if
> > > > > one is not quite human, or is super-human, endears these
> > > > characters to us.
> > > > >
> > > > > While it's possible to have a hero who doesn't feel like an
> > > > outsider or
> > > > > a freak, how that translates into their personality can be
> > > > problematic.
> > > > > If they are always self-sacrificing, righteous and true, they
> > can
> > > > end up
> > > > > being downright boring. Then again, someone who doesn't suffer
> > > > rarely
> > > > > understands the plight of others who are suffering, and usually
> > > > isn't
> > > > > heroic. Someone like that is likely to come off as arrogant
> > and/or
> > > > > self-obsessed, and uses their power for personal gain. I'm not
> > > > sure I
> > > > > want to know people who are drawn to this kind of "hero." I
> > might
> > > > end up
> > > > > being the next person they get all self-righteous and true on.
> > > > >
> > > > > People simply can't identify with an action figure. An action
> > > > figure may
> > > > > present an amusing visual and aural experience, but so does a
> > > > musical
> > > > > mobile hanging over a crib. Both are forgettable once they're
> > out of
> > > > > sight. A fully realized human being makes for much longer-
> > lasting
> > > > > "relationship" between the character and the audience than
> > Action
> > > > > Jackson ever can. How many people talk as passionately -- and
> > for
> > > > years
> > > > > on end -- about Lara Croft as they do about Buffy or River Tam?
> > > > >
> > > > > Then there is the issue of the setting for the movies. Wonder
> > > > Woman has
> > > > > gone through many eras. She hasn't always been stuck in WWII, as
> > > > > Superman hasn't always been stuck in the 1930s. In the early
> > 1970s,
> > > > > Wonder Woman had been revamped to fit the times. Steve Trevor
> > was
> > > > > killed, she lost her powers, traded in her bathing suit for a
> > > > > mini-dress, and learned martial arts from some old guy named I-
> > > > ching.
> > > > > While that probably wasn’
> > t the best version of
> > > > Wonder Woman, it kept
> > > > > her
> > > > > in the present.
> > > > >
> > > > > Since then, WW has been reinvented several more times, keeping
> > > > her in
> > > > > the present. All the Superman and Batman movies are in the
> > > > present (or
> > > > > future). Why must Wonder Woman be stuck back in WWII?
> > > > >
> > > > > My favorite DC-based movie last year was "V for Vendetta," which
> > > > while
> > > > > it wasn't a superhero movie, was the kind of movie I prefer to
> > > > shell out
> > > > > money to see. I don’t
> > make a whole lot, and I
> > > > have a lot of kids to
> > > > > feed, so I can't often waste money on something that is a purely
> > > > > escapist formula movie. Most of the superhero/graphic novel
> > movies -
> > > > > regardless of their origins - are lackluster at best.
> > "Daredevil,"
> > > > > "Electra," "Catwoman," "Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow,"
> > > > and "Sin
> > > > > City" were all substitutes for Sominex.
> > > > >
> > > > > Unfortunately, superhero movie producers have grandiose
> > > > expectations,
> > > > > but usually resort to mediocre stories and big special
> > effects or
> > > > > “artfulâââ
> > €šÂ¬Ã‚ facades to pass their
> > > > production off as marketable.
> > > > > “Superman
> > > > > Returns,” while somewhat better
> > than previously
> > > > mentioned movies, still
> > > > > suffered the fate of presenting a formulaic plot with some bad
> > > > casting
> > > > > choices (that was NOT Lois Lane), and uneven acting. Hell,
> > > > Brandon Routh
> > > > > barely got to do anything beyond his Christopher Reeve-as-
> > Clark Kent
> > > > > impression. While Bryan Singer, Michael Dougherty and Dan Harris
> > > > tried
> > > > > to infuse some humanity and allusions to Supes being Christ-like
> > > > into
> > > > > the story, the actual plot was simply a rehash of old plots
> > with Lex
> > > > > Luthor abusing different pieces of real estate.
> > > > >
> > > > > There are passably good comic book hero movies out there
> > > > ("Hellboy," and
> > > > > even "Fantastic Four" to some extent) that take the action
> > > > formula and
> > > > > make it interesting and entertaining. For far too many,
> > though, the
> > > > > formula starts to become rancid after too long. I had been
> > looking
> > > > > forward to something fresh and different in Joss Whedon's
> > "Wonder
> > > > > Woman." I had hoped it would be the one movie about a female
> > > > superhero
> > > > > that wasn't abysmal. I can still hope for this. Jennison and
> > > > Strickland
> > > > > may turn out to be great writers. Still, Iâââ
> > €šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢m not
> > > > going to put much
> > > > > faith
> > > > > in the judgment of movie studio moguls. They have been wrong
> > many
> > > > times
> > > > > before.
> > > > >
> > > > > Robin Brownfield is a staff writer for SyFy Portal, writing out
> > > > of New
> > > > > Jersey. She can be reached at [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> <mailto:rbrownfield%40syfyportal.com>
> > > <mailto:rbrownfield%40syfyportal.com>
> > > > > <mailto:rbrownfield%40syfyportal.com>.
> > > > >
> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > >
> > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > >
> > > > > "There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels
> > > > will
> > > > > get organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt Vonnegut,
> > "A Man
> > > > > Without A Country"
> > > > >
> > > > > ---------------------------------
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> > from
> > > > > real people who know.
> > > > >
> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > >
> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > >
> > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > >
> > > > > "There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels
> > > > will
> > > > > get organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt Vonnegut,
> > "A Man
> > > > > Without A Country"
> > > > >
> > > > > ---------------------------------
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> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > "There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels
> > > > will get organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt Vonnegut,
> > > > "A Man Without A Country"
> > > >
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