Unfortunately it's no different and I find the use of the word cringeworthy most of the time. So no he doesn't get a pass but neither do other filmakers who do it for shock value.
Like you mentioned a lot of black folks use the word casually and the characters in Pulp Fiction and Jackie Brown use it pretty much in character. I had bigger problems with the usage in Pulp Fiction than in Jackie brown to be perfectly honest. I think part of it was Samuel L. Jackson's persona and the characters on the screen. In Jackie Brown it fit because Ordell was that type of guy. In Pulp Fiction Jules, Marcellus and even the rednecks usage fit the characters but QT's character talking about Dead N***** Storage rang hollow. He was Jules' friend and they were in a jam but that level of disrespect seemed fake. My wife thought that Tracie Thoms character's few n-bombs seemed forced in Death Proof because it was so not like the characters she had done before. I didn't have that baggage and I thought it fit the role. --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Keith Johnson <keithbjohn...@...> wrote: > > > > Just to ask, how in your mind does QT using the n-word in the context of the > worlds of his movies differ from black people doing it? I remember watching > the movie " The Best Man" (I think it was), the guys casually used the n-word > quite a bit. I may be wrong, maybe it was "The Wood". At any rate, it was a > black comedy that was one of those that'd be seen by black families, and i > was a bit surprised at how casually the word was thrown around. And of course > Jay-Z has recently argued with Oprah Winfrey that the word should be used by > people like him in order to take away its power--an argument I have never > supported. > > > > To be clear, I grew up in a time when the n-word was casually used all the > time. I no longer use it myself, but I have tons of relatives and friends who > do use it, typically when they're pissed at someone. I am admittedly from > that school that may not like it when a black person uses the word, but who > *hates* it when a white person directs it a black person. But that said, > QT, I must admit, wasn't hurling it at black people as a personal insult, > just using it in the context of the world he'd built onscreen--a world based > on teh Blaxploitation movies he'd absorbed as a kid. So, if he's using > characters from such a world, and if we admit that such characters --like Jay > Z--still use the word quite a bit, is QT wrong for capturing that onscreen? > > > > I don't have a full opinion, again, because I've only seen two of his > pictures. I remember the n-word being tossed around in "Pulp Fiction" when > QT's character was pissed at the black man who'd been accidentally killed. I > flinched everytime he said it, but figured, "he's playing a racist character, > which is the point". Of course we could argue that there's something > disturbing about QT's fascination with one aspect of Black culture, but does > that make him racist, clueless, confused, what? > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "B Smith" <daikaij...@...> > To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Friday, October 9, 2009 9:27:50 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern > Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Quentin Tarantino confirms 'Kill Bill, Vol. 3,' but >  who's left to kill? > >  > > > > > Jackie Brown is Tarantino doing Elmore Leonard. He captures the plot and > feeling of the novel but changed the setting of the book from Florida to > California and changed Jackie Burke to Jackie Brown and made her black. There > are a few other minor changes but the movie plays just like the novel and is > better for it. > > I definitely agreed with Spike Lee's concerns and although QT had his blood > up I think the criticism stung him. His subsequent movies have definitely > toned it down. > > --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com , Keith Johnson <KeithBJohnson@> wrote: > > > > great, it's on the list! > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Martin Baxter" <truthseeker013@> > > To: "SciFiNoir2" < scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com > > > Sent: Friday, October 9, 2009 7:51:43 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern > > Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Quentin Tarantino confirms 'Kill Bill, Vol. > > 3,' but who's left to kill? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Keith, you're doing yourself a service by taking these in. When I first saw > > "Jackie Brown", I came into the room just after the credits had run. > > Watching it all the way through (and being thoroughly delighted by it), I > > was dumbfounded to see Tarantino's anme as the director. Felt nothing like > > his usual oeuvre, which made the experience all the better, to say nothing > > of it making him one of my favorite directors. > > > > "If all the world's a stage and all the people merely players, who in > > bloody hell hired the director?" -- Charles L Grant > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQUxw9aUVik > > > > > > > > > > > > To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com > > From: KeithBJohnson@ > > Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2009 01:52:44 +0000 > > Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Quentin Tarantino confirms 'Kill Bill, Vol. > > 3,' but who's left to kill? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thanks for that. I guess I need to look up "Reservoir Dogs", finally see > > all of "Pulp Fiction", and take in "Jackie Brown". that last starts more > > arguments than the question I raised does. I hear people say it was his > > best movie ever, but others say no, because it's the least Tarantino-like > > film, and therefore can't be his best film ever. > > > > I think I know this answer, but how do you feel about his usage of the > > n-word so much in his movies? Remember when Spike Lee all but wanted to > > have him taken out for that? Spike even counted the number of times the > > word was used in individual movies--I think "Jackie Brown" was the one that > > set him off--and said it was too much. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "B Smith" <daikaiju66@> > > To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Thursday, October 8, 2009 10:14:37 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern > > Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Quentin Tarantino confirms 'Kill Bill, Vol. 3,' > > but who's left to kill? > > > > > > > > > > Kill Bill was the exception and it was very intentional. It was his fanboy > > movie and he threw everything he loved up there on the screen. > > > > His other films are more nods than homages to the stuff he loves. He has > > his own eccentricities like the obsession with women's feet, pop culture > > references and his infamous trunk shot that appears in every movie but it's > > his style. Jackie Brown still remains his most accomplished and grown up > > movie imho and he manages to evoke the feelings of his influences without > > the direct homages. > > > > Inglorious Basterds was very well done and a step forward for him. The ad > > campaign doesn't really do it justice. People went in expecting the movie > > to be about Brad Pitt and crew scalpin' Nazis but got much more. > > > > --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com , Keith Johnson <KeithBJohnson@> wrote: > > > > > > It's really good, but let me ask you: does Tarantino ever go too far in > > > his homages/copying of other genres for your taste? For example, I loved > > > Kill Bill, but by the time the Bride and Lu's character were fighting in > > > the garden, complete with the water thing going, I felt as if I were > > > being hit over the head with homages. I guess it's one thing to have > > > touches from other films in your movie, but Tarantino literally stuffs > > > his films with those, and it's not very subtle. > > > Not complaining, mind you. I've only seen two of his films, so don't know > > > if his originality outshines his homages, or if he simply repackages the > > > homages in a skillful enough way so that one doesn't mind. After all, > > > there are very few original ideas in Hollywood, so recycling old themes > > > isn't by itself a crime. > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "B Smith" <daikaiju66@> > > > To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 7, 2009 9:35:27 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern > > > Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Quentin Tarantino confirms 'Kill Bill, Vol. 3,' > > > but who's left to kill? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That was Sofie Fatale. Julie Dreyfus also has a small but meaty role in > > > Inglorious Basterds. > > > > > > *putting away my Japanese special edition boxed set of Kill Bill Vol. 1* > > > > > > I guess you can say I'm fan. The cinematic references, cameos and injokes > > > from the movie are heaven for fans of Asian, Italian and 70s grindhouse > > > cinema. > > > > > > --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com , Keith Johnson <KeithBJohnson@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Wow, you must be a fan! Who was the lady who was Lucy Lu's sidekick? > > > > The one who was half Asian and described as "Dressed like a villain > > > > from Star Trek"? I wish she'd been given more to do (i must admit > > > > because i couldn't stop staring at her) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "B Smith" <daikaiju66@> > > > > To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com > > > > Sent: Tuesday, October 6, 2009 1:47:55 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern > > > > Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Quentin Tarantino confirms 'Kill Bill, Vol. > > > > 3,' but who's left to kill? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It could definitely work and they could bring back Elle Driver, Sofie > > > > Fatale and Johnny Mo as her bitter, crippled masters. > > > > > > > > If they really wanted to rock our worlds they could actually have > > > > Vernita's daughter succeed and have the Bride's daughter taking up the > > > > sword and going after her. > > > > > > > > --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com , Keith Johnson <KeithBJohnson@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > that could work... > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: "Justin Mohareb" <justinmohareb@> > > > > > To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com > > > > > Sent: Monday, October 5, 2009 11:43:40 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada > > > > > Eastern > > > > > Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Quentin Tarantino confirms 'Kill Bill, Vol. > > > > > 3,' but who's left to kill? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually, I believe he mentioned using the actor who played her > > > > > daughter in the first film, since she'll have actually grown into the > > > > > role in the intervening decade and a half. > > > > > > > > > > I believe he mentioned filming scenes on an ongoing basis. > > > > > > > > > > Justin > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 11:34 PM, Keith Johnson > > > > > < KeithBJohnson@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Damn! Now the guys have *me* doing it, but when I thought of > > > > > > Copperhead's daughter going after The Bride, my first thought was > > > > > > "Rosario Dawson could pull off a kickass woman bent on revenge like > > > > > > nobody's business!" Is she too old to play Copperhead's daughter > > > > > > only ten years from now? Sure...but this is Tarentino. I'm sure he > > > > > > could come up with some crazy excuse, and the incongruity of age > > > > > > could add a built in humour to heighten the camp factor. > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: "Tracey de Morsella" < tdlists@ > > > > > > > To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com , ggszig@ , "Cinque3000" < > > > > > > cinque3000@ >, "Sincere" < sincere1906@ > > > > > > > Sent: Monday, October 5, 2009 2:00:53 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada > > > > > > Eastern > > > > > > Subject: [scifinoir2] Quentin Tarantino confirms 'Kill Bill, Vol. > > > > > > 3,' but who's left to kill? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > During promotion for the first two "Kill Bill" films, creator > > > > > > Quentin Tarantino hypothisized that he'd like to return for a third > > > > > > installment that would take place 10 years afterward the second > > > > > > film ended. Six years since Vol. 1 and a little over five years > > > > > > since Vol. 2, Tarantino has made waves by letting everyone know he > > > > > > hasn't abandoned his plan. > > > > > > > > > > > > Speaking during a press conference for "Inglourious Basterds" in > > > > > > Mexico on Saturday, Tarantino says he still plays to shoot "Kill > > > > > > Bill 3" in or around 2014. According to Variety, the filmmaker said > > > > > > he'd shoot a different picture inbetween. He's currently > > > > > > contemplating a "re-imagining" of a number of genres including a > > > > > > Western or a '30's type gangster movie. > > > > > > > > > > > > "Kill Bill, Vol. 2" ended with The Bride (Uma Thurman) reunited > > > > > > with her baby and all of her targets killed. Most speculate that > > > > > > "Copperhead's" daughter, who is spared in "Vol. 1" would be the > > > > > > most likely protagonist now that she's all grown up and no doubt > > > > > > has revenge of her own on her mind. The "Bill" portion of the film > > > > > > would be difficult to incorporate even in flashbacks after David > > > > > > Carradine's death this past summer. > > > > > > > > > > > > More curious is who exactly would produce the feature? It's unclear > > > > > > whether this is a project the Weinstein's were allowed to keep the > > > > > > rights too when they left Miramax in 2005 or whether it would kick > > > > > > back to the recently gutted indie specialty label. Needless to say, > > > > > > parent company Disney would hardly be adverse to making a sequel to > > > > > > a series that has already grossed $332 million worldwide. Plus, the > > > > > > mammoth success of "Basterds" this summer ensures, at least for the > > > > > > time being, that Tarantino's reign in pop culture is hardly over. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thurman will be seen in theaters later this month in the romantic > > > > > > comedy "Motherhood." > > > > > > > > > > > > More on this story as it develops on HitFix. > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you wait another 5 years for a third "Kill Bill? Do you think > > > > > > it's still a good idea? > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.hitfix.com/articles/2009-10-5-quentin-tarantino-confirms-kill-bill-vol-3-but-who-s-left-to-kill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tracey de Morsella, Managing Producer > > > > > > > > > > > > The Green Economy Post > > > > > > > > > > > > http://greeneconomypost.com > > > > > > > > > > > > tracey@ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Read the Bitter Guide to the Bitter Guy. > > > > > http://thebitterguy.livejournal.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft. Get it now. > > >
