Re: update on Briar
Hi Angela, I'm delighted that Briar is doing better and it's great to know that he was negative for Lyme disease. As to OFA/ PennHip, etc. - The information is vitally important for the health of the breed, as a whole. I use the information to help me plan breedings. The canine geneticists emphasize that breeders need to know about the orthopedic health of all the puppies in a litter - this information can assist the breeder in understanding what genes an individual dog may carry. For example, if I have Female # 1 and she is from a litter of six puppies, and if she has OFA excellent hips and elbows that are free of inherited defects, then I may want to use her in my breeding program. However, if I research her other five littermates and learn that one of them required a total hip replacement before she was three and that two others are lame with moderate hip dysplasia, then I know that Female # 1 is very likely to carry the genes that have caused the problems in her siblings, even though she is unaffected herself. Contrast Femlae # 1 with Female # 2 - she is from a litter of eight, and all eight puppies have been x-rayed, and all eight have hips and elbows certified free of dysplasia. Female # 2 is unlikely to carry the genes necessary to produce the hereditary diseases in her offspring. I recently had a litter of puppies born from parents like Female # 2. The dam of the litter had six siblings; she and her siblings all have certified hips and elbows. The sire of the litter has seven siblings; he and his siblings all have certified hips and elbows. Hopefully, we will learn that the dam and sire lacked the genes necessary to produce hip and/or elbow dysplasia. - In other words - the parents are incapable of producing the hip/elbow conformation that is the inherited disease(s). That's the theory, anyway. We'll know more when the litter is old enough to be x-rayed. I hope helps explain why x-raying all puppies is so important. terry thompson missoula, montana One question: if you are not breeding your dog, is OFA or PENNhip testing just for your own piece of mind?? Is there any other reason? Thanks, Angela & Briar
Re: A New Vocabulary for the Berner-L
the new vocabulary offers the potential for a great deal of fun :-D terry thompson missoula, montana "girl", "sweetheart" or "female" Mr. Willie or The Joy Stick. Family Jewels or The Money Bags. "Getting Lucky" or "Fructification." "Happy Boy." "lavish bestowal."
Re: Puppy Sales at Cabella's
I would like to send an email to them. What is the address? terry thompson missoula, montana At 09:46 AM 07/09/03 -0700, Karen Aufdemorte wrote: Hi All, I have sent an email to Cabella's customer service, for which I received 2 responses: one an automated "we received your email" and the other a lengthy defense of their practices from someone in customer service named Shelley. I responded to her email, which listed all the steps Cabella's requires of the "breeders" and which assured me that the puppy sale was run by a well-known trainer in the area. I basically told her that their practice was irresponsible, no matter who is running it, because no reputable breeder sells their puppies in an impulse forum like that. While this currently doesn't affect Berners, the whole concept of responsible, knowledgeable pet ownership has to be addressed. I know I'm preaching to the choir here, but maybe if they get enough attention from it they'll quit. Karen Aufdemorte and Caleb San Antonio, TX
Re: PetSmart...puppy classes
I agree with Susan - sometimes the Petsmart classes are the only ones available and something is better than nothing. Plus, here once an owner has paid for a class s/he and the dog can take it as many times as they want. One of my puppy owners is re-taking a class for free and is training the Canine Good Citizen award, with the support and encouragement of the Petsmart trainer. There are other great trainers in town but this puppy owner found this class and it's obviously working out. And there are great distractions there. :-D terry thompson missoula, montana
Re: Migrating chip
Hi all, I think the AVID chips do have the anti-migrating feature now; I've been using them for six years in my dogs and all our puppies. To my knowledge none has moved out of position. The nice thing about the AVID Eurochip is that it can be read by all the different scanners, including the ones in other countries. That's a big bonus for us because we often travel with the dogs in Canada. Terry Thompson Missoula, Montana At 11:35 PM 06/24/03 -0400, you wrote: Out of curiosity, what kind of chip was it? We have had several in our hospital that have migrated - they have all been AVID chips. I don't think we're unique in our scanning method - we start at the shoulder blades and if we don't find one , we go all the way down the dog. We found one AVID chip in a pastern, and one by the sternum. Have never found a Home Again chip that migrated, but I do know of one we put in that was irritated by the dog's draft harness and created an abcess. We no longer use or recommend the AVID chips, though I have been told they now have an anti-migrating feature like Home Again. Joanne Prellberg Polaris Bernese Mtn. Dogs Scottsdale, AZ
Re: Do Berners ever die of old age?
Hi All, My Xenta is 8 now; her parents lived to 10 and 13. There is an old Berner gal here in town who celebrated her 11th birthday last month. Many of them live to a ripe old age, but the early cancer deaths bring the average age of death way down. terry thompson missoula, montana At 02:33 PM 05/29/03 -0400, maria wrote: Hi List, I've been following this list since last September and see all of the postings about cancer deaths (Histio roll call) and other illness related Berner deaths. This got us wondering if there are any of you out there who had a Berner who died of old age and if so to what age did they live. It can't be as bad as it sounds. We love our little guy very, very much and know that the average life span is only 6-7 years because of the illnesses they are prone to. We would really like to hear some of the stats on the lucky Berners who live a long, full, happy, and healthy life. Let us know. Thanks Maria, Mark, Arabia (the Lab) and Jack (the Berner) Ringwood, NJ
Re: Conditioning with a Bicycle and "Springer"
Hi All, I have learned to use the springer and a slip collar or gentle leader and leash when training a dog to go along side of the bike. The additional tool helps me to direct traffic, so to speak. terry thompson missoula, montana Vicky wrote: I spent Sunday afternoon attaching a "springer" to the bike so I could safely attach Major to the bike. In two short outings, it went very well -- he's learning the term "ride" to mean "trot nicely" next to the bike. We also incorporated some of our draft commands to "go right," "go left," "slow," and "stop." The only problem was as we returned home last night. The springer and dog are positioned on the RIGHT side of my bicycle; as we steered "left" into the driveway, Major somehow leaped around to the LEFT side of the bike. It wasn't enough to cause me to lose control or fall, but it sure surprised me! I immediately stopped and had a struggle to get him back on the right side. Does anyone else use a springer with your dog and bike? Any experience with the dog getting on the wrong side? What can happen? Can you just continue riding and the dog will go back on the correct side, or must I immediately stop and reposition him?
Re: Fencing
Hi Susan and all, I prefer not to place puppies in homes with invisible fences - because it is a system that fails to offer the puppy any protection from other dogs, kids, etc. that may enter the property and cause harm. We got along just fine with our invisible fence until a huge, aggressive malamute moved into our neighborhood. He entered our yard twice and attacked our dog. The second time he caused permanent damage and left our dog limping for the rest of his life. terry thompson missoula, montana At 02:43 PM 03/12/03 -0500, you wrote: Hi All, I'm throwing this out to you all in hopes that can help me. I am a PPO and have been contacting breeders. The last 3 that I spoke with, when they found out we have an invisible fence, in lieu of a "regular" fence, politely informed me that they would not sell to anyone with an invisible fence. 2 even had it written into their contracts - no invisible fences. I understand that's their perogative however, I'm just wondering why such a strong oppostion.We've had 2 goldens and a black lab, both with using the invisible fence. As they were intelligent animals, once trained, (which took no time at all) they realized that when they got the audible tone to back off and all was well. We never had a problem with it. I know they get a slight shock (yes, my husband and I both experimented with it before having the fence installed). It's not like they're so stunned they end up on their backs with their feet in the air. Do most breeders feel this way about the invisible fence? Any suggestions/comments. Thanks, Susan
RE: Had Enough -- Now: How to be a breeder
Hi Kate and all, I think you've made a good point. And, when I thought the same thing yesterday, I posted to her privately. I expressed my concern about how she was being treated and told her about an up-coming litter. She has not responded. Don't quite know what to make of that. terry thompson missoula, montana At 09:12 AM 03/11/03 -0800, you wrote: This is my first post... but I have been reading for a couple months now, and this is only my opinion: I think that before everyone jumps on this lady about being offended by the breeder she was talking to we might want to give her the benefit of the doubt. Not all breeder are very friendly, and it is quite possible that the breeder was rude to her. I think that some positive support about what she can do to make her next experience more informative might be helpful for her versus the pummeling her for daring to speak up and ask about it. Kate Bert & Lady Cedarburg, WI -Original Message- From: Mary Shaver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 10:10 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Was: Had Enough -- Now: How to be a breeder When I talk to PPO's about getting a berner pup, I always explain that a good breeder will ask LOTS of questions, and not to be put off or offended by that - a good breeder is genuinely concerned about where their pups are going. It always makes them feel better when I tell them that I had three berner breeders turn me down flat as an unsuitable owner! I also volunteer with our local humane society. You wouldn't believe how much verbal abuse we take from potential "adopters" when we ask them to complete our standard questionnaire. There is evidently a segment of the population who feel they have some God-given right to own whatever animal they want, regardless of their suitability, or lack thereof. It is this type of attitude that unfortunately contributes to the problem, whether it be choosing to buy a pup from a pet shop, or taking a "store front give away" pup from another irresponsible pet owner. We see them every day... Mary Shaver and the girls, Laurel and Bailey Fayetteville, GA This message may contain confidential, proprietary or legally privileged information. It is intended only to be read by the individual or entity named above or its designee. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are on notice that you must not, directly or indirectly, use, disclose, distribute, print, or copy any part of this message. No confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any mistransmission. If you have received this message in error, please immediately notify the sender and/or DoveBid, Inc. by telephone at (650) 571-7400 or email at [EMAIL PROTECTED] and delete or destroy any copy of this message.
Re: Lyme Vaccines
Hi David, Paula & all: Please reconsider this vaccination - it didn't work the first time, which is no surprise - the company who makes it knows that it is not a very good vaccine. The canine specialists so aknow that is it not a good vaccine. (go to www.IVIS.org and sign in and search under Ron Schultz). Dr. Schultz has found that the lyme vaccine is effective for only 25% the animals vaccinated. So of those vaccinated, 75% are put to risk but gain nothing. If it doesn't protect dogs, why is it for sale? Well, lousy products are sold every day. Vets often do not know if the product isn't that great or they want you to keep trying it, hoping that your dog will get lucky. But at the IVIS site, Schultz cautions that the lyme vaccine has been known to cause chronic arthritis in humans, and he cautions that pet guardians should consider that fact when they are deciding whether or not to use the vaccine. Please read the Hayward Study, (internet search - key words, Hayward Purdue LaRosa), to get an idea of what harm a vaccine might do - then consider only vaccinating with vaccines that work - and only for illnesses that can't be treated. May be the other stuff isn't worth the risk. terry thompson missoula, montana At 07:21 AM 03/05/03 -0500, you wrote: Hello everyone. Despite our Charisma getting the latest vaccine, along with topical tick/flea preventative, she still got Lyme disease last summer. It was caught early and a 3-wk course of antibiotics did the trick. We do hike nearly everyday in the woods and fields, but we religiously do a tick check on ourselves and the dog every night (she thinks its just extra attention until we pull one out!). Our vet still suggests the vaccine since our chances of exposure are so much greater than the average dog. David and Paula Sandler & Charisma (time for a tick check yet?)
Re: BERNER-L digest 4296
Hi Lisa-Jayne I think it is better to use the collar only when you got out. Too many things can happen if you leave a collar on when you are not around to supervise. One of our dogs got it's lower jaw caught in another dog's collar and almost killed her. Luckily we were home and heard the screams of the one with her jaw caught - the other dog was strangling and could not make a sound. With a lost or missing dog that is microchipped, you have a good chance of recovery - but a strangled dog is just gone. My 2 cents worth :0) terry thompson missoula, montana At 05:14 AM 02/27/03 -0500, you wrote: Hi everyone, I have a question I only put a collar with a name tag on when I am taking my girl out, I was always led to believe that keeping a collar on her would make a permanent indent in her neckline. What would be the best collar for her to be able to wear on a permanent basis ? Would a choke chain be ok to wear during day and then at walk time put on her normal collar ? Any advice would be greatly appreciated as only after reading recent postings have I realised how important it is that my girl is tagged at all times. She is micro-chipped but the finding process would take longer if she was to go astray. Thanks for your help. Lisa-Jayne England, Kent
Re: question about xrays
Hi Stephanie and all, This is an interesting topic. Years ago, we took one of our dogs to a veterinary college to be examined by a vet-neurologist because he was limping and our local vet suspected a nerve problem. The neurologist asked to x-ray the dog's knees and when we were surprised, she explained that a high percentage of referrals for neurological problems were actually dogs that had knee trouble! As to x-raying for hereditary knee problems, I don't think it's done. It's my understanding that slipping (luxating) patellas (knee caps) and a propensity for torn cruciate ligaments are hereditary knee disorders in Bernese. However, I don't know that an x-ray would help to diagnose the propensity for torn ligaments. Further, according to OFA, a dog can be certified as free of luxating patellas through a simple exam from a local veterinarian who then fills out a form. There is an OFA registry for it. However, I think luxating patellas only affects 2 -4 percent of the breed. Many limping Berners probably do suffer from arthritis in their knees. And that can be confirmed by x-ray. But I don't think that it is considered a hereditary condition. A reminder: limping can be caused by tick diseases - particularly ehrlichiosis and lyme disease. The tick transfers a 'bug' that likes to live in the joint area. This causes inflammation and pain so the dog limps. It does not always cause swelling and the 'bugs' sometimes migrate from one joint to another, so it can easily be confused with orthopedic disorders. But in the case of a tick disease, the dog needs an antibiotic. It's best to always do a blood test for tick diseases if your dog is limping. terry thompson missoula, montana
Fwd: Re: Age Question/Longevity & Histio
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 13:39:02 -0700 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: T Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Age Question/Longevity & Histio Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi Susan and all, Susan wrote: Ruth excuse my ignorance, but wasn't the study done by Dr. Padgett done to determine the hereditability of cancer in Bernese and wasn't it concluded that only histio and mast cell were hereditary? ** yes, that is what he has concluded so far. however, he also said at the Symposium that he suspects hemangiosarcoma as being inherited, but does not yet have sufficient information terry thompson missoula, montana
Re: Age Question/Longevity & Histio
Hi Susan and all, Susan wrote: Ruth excuse my ignorance, but wasn't the study done by Dr. Padgett done to determine the hereditability of cancer in Bernese and wasn't it concluded that only histio and mast cell were hereditary? ** yes, that is what he has concluded so far. however, he also said at the Symposium that he suspects hemangiosarcoma as being inherited, but does not yet have sufficient information terry thompson missoula, montana
Re: Age Question/Longevity & Histio
Hi Ruth and All, Dr. Padgett addressed lymphoma at the Swiss Health Symposium. He stated that he has studied the pedigrees and offspring of 80 affected dogs but did not find that it was an inherited cancer in Bernese. Additionally, he stated that he thinks lymphoma is caused by a virus. terry thompson missoula, montana
Re: Euoropean/ American breeders
There will be a report in the next Alpenhorn. terry At 07:00 AM 10/15/02 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >In a message dated 10/14/2002 5:17:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > > In fact, I just returned from the Second > > International Symposium for breed health which was held in > > Switzerland. Over a hundred breeders, representing Bernese clubs from > > all over the world gathered to share information about the health of the > > breed, and what can be done to improve it. The next day, at the Swiss > > Club's annual breed show, there were many additional American breeders > > who had traveled to Switzerland to attend the show and learn about the > > dogs there. > >In case anyone's wondering *why* some breeders went to the show and not the >health symposium... > >It's because attendance at the symposium was limited to 5 participants from >each national breed club. I expect there'll be reports from the participants >published in the Alpenhorn and perhaps posted on the BMDCA website at some >point in the future. > >Better yet... >If minutes were taken perhaps they could be posted on the berner.org site??? > >-Sherri Venditti
Fwd: Re: Euoropean/ American breeders
>Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 14:22:26 -0600 >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >From: T Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: Fwd: Re: Euoropean/ American breeders > > >>Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 13:47:23 -0600 >>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>From: T Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>Subject: Re: Euoropean/ American breeders >> >>Hi Terry,Cathy, and all: >> >> Congratulations! I am sure you will enjoy your new puppy! It >> is wonderful to hear about your communications with the puppy's >> breeder. I hope that you and she will be able to share information >> about your girl and the breed during the years to come. >> >> You raised some interesting points in your post: >> >> Regarding your puppy's breeder, you wrote: "Most impressive is >> her communication skills with potential owners and >>>the method she raises her pups. The method of her breeding and her >>>ability to interact with potential >>>buyers of this wonderful breed should be formulated in writing for every >>>breeder in this state to follow, perhaps the country." >> >> **It would be helpful if you could be more specific about your >> interactions with her and the information that you'd like to see >> 'formulated in writing" for other breeders to follow. >> >> You wrote: "While I am sure American breeders feel they have a >> superior sense of a berner's health >>>issues than their European counterparts I am sure a sharing of >>>information between the breeders beyond the 'big pond' would extend the >>>life of all berners, in the long run. I believe berner advocates in >>>America and Europe can share information >>>and dogs for healthy breeding versus the american breeder's view that >>>European breeders close their eyes to healthy breeding practices." >> >> >> **Although I do not know who you talked to before you contacted >> your puppy's breeder, I can tell you that I am one of many American >> breeders who is very interested in working with breeders from Europe and >> other parts of the world. In fact, I just returned from the Second >> International Symposium for breed health which was held in >> Switzerland. Over a hundred breeders, representing Bernese clubs from >> all over the world gathered to share information about the health of the >> breed, and what can be done to improve it. The next day, at the Swiss >> Club's annual breed show, there were many additional American breeders >> who had traveled to Switzerland to attend the show and learn about the >> dogs there. >> >>>I have experienced, witnessed and heard the biases from the berner >>>breeders in person and in this list. If the Illinois breeding community >>>in any way represents the berner breeding community at large I feel >>>there is a gaping hole being driven by breeders who talk a good game. >> >> **I'm sorry that your experience was so negative. >> >>>Unfortunately the Eastern Europe profiteers have been very successful >>>setting up shop in our communities to easily exploit berner pups with >>>simple newspaper ads. Take it from someone who was nearly lured in by >>>the face of a pretty little berner girl pup. If it can happen to me it >>>can happen to anyone who is impressed with the breed. >>>My recommendation: breeders wake up and smell reality. Berner survival >>>means cooperating, learning, sharing information within the global >>>community. >> >> **Well, I think that we've got a good start. If you would like >> more information about the cooperating, learning, and sharing of >> information that occurred during the Symposium, please let me know. >> >> terry thompson >> missoula, montana
