Re: Quikwriting

[Joe Pfeiffer]

 "Marco Trevisan (Treviño)" writes:
>
>Mhmhmh I've tried the two demos (with mouse, of course), but I've 
>some problems in writing on it... Expecially some "lateral" chars aren't 
>writtable to me... To write a "c", for example, I've to make many tries, 
>and I guess they should be really more using a finger.
>I've read no docs, where am I wrong in?

No idea -- it's worked great for me

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Re: Quikwriting

[Marco Trevisan (Treviño)]

Marco Trevisan (Treviño) wrote:

ramsesoriginal ha scritto:
On Sat, Apr 12, 2008 at 5:13 PM, Ortwin Regel 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Quikwriting is the best input method for finger input on a small
 touchscreen like the Neo's that I have come across.
 http://mrl.nyu.edu/~perlin/demos/quikwriting.html
 There have been positive comments towards it on the list before.
 Does anyone have the time, motivation and ability to implement this on
 Openmoko? It would be very useful for me. :)

 Ortwin



Sounds interesting. The only problem is user education.. but if it
works this could be a really good input method for finger input!


Mhmhmh I've tried the two demos (with mouse, of course), but I've 
some problems in writing on it... Expecially some "lateral" chars aren't 
writtable to me... To write a "c", for example, I've to make many tries, 
and I guess they should be really more using a finger.

I've read no docs, where am I wrong in?


I've given a short look to the docs and now it's clear how to write in... :P

So, now I can agree with ramsesoriginal and the others who appreciate 
this systems: it can easily be used for quick finger writing!

Btw, imho we should try to find another letter ordering :P.

--
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Re: next costumers location

[Marco Trevisan (Treviño)]

Federico Lorenzi wrote:

I agree, btw I think that it will be cheaper also if on a city we can't
group 10 people, simply we'll order on the "most requested city", and from
there we'll ship to other buyers... Standard shipping in Italy should be
just 8€ more: that's definitely lower than 30$ :P...

... Not for long!


Well, if you consider that you've to pay the shipping costs from Usa or 
Asia in 10 or more people, instead that as an alone buyer I think that 
you gain really more than 30$-8€ ;)


--
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http://www.3v1n0.net/


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Re: LCD protector

[Marco Trevisan (Treviño)]

Ajit Natarajan wrote:
A friend of mine who owns an iPhone purchased an LCD protector.  It is a 
sheet of clear material cut to the dimensions of the LCD screen.  When 
affixed to the screen, it doesn't affect touch screen operation. 
However, it resists scratching and fingerprints can simply be wiped off.


I also planned to buy some screen protectors for the freerunner... 
Reading comments on the net I've heard that the best ones are the 
"Brando" (they've a site shipping worldwide, but I can't find it now) 
anyway I don't really know if it's an hoax or not...


BTW since the Openmoko phones aren't "commercial phones", to find the 
screen protector with the right size (or something bigger), I'd need to 
know which other phone/PDA has the same screen size of the Freerunner.

Do you have advices for this?

Thanks!

--
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http://www.3v1n0.net/


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Re: Quikwriting

[Marco Trevisan (Treviño)]

ramsesoriginal ha scritto:

On Sat, Apr 12, 2008 at 5:13 PM, Ortwin Regel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Quikwriting is the best input method for finger input on a small
 touchscreen like the Neo's that I have come across.
 http://mrl.nyu.edu/~perlin/demos/quikwriting.html
 There have been positive comments towards it on the list before.
 Does anyone have the time, motivation and ability to implement this on
 Openmoko? It would be very useful for me. :)

 Ortwin



Sounds interesting. The only problem is user education.. but if it
works this could be a really good input method for finger input!


Mhmhmh I've tried the two demos (with mouse, of course), but I've 
some problems in writing on it... Expecially some "lateral" chars aren't 
writtable to me... To write a "c", for example, I've to make many tries, 
and I guess they should be really more using a finger.

I've read no docs, where am I wrong in?

--
Treviño's World - Life and Linux
http://www.3v1n0.net/


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Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

[Kyle Bassett]

More thanks Steve!

I'm glad you guys slimmed down the original packaging, as anything above
~400 becomes very prohibitive (as a work in progress platform) for many
people.

Keep up the great work and thanks for the frequent updates!

-Kyle

* proud GTA01 hacker, GTA02 stalker ;-) *



On Sat, Apr 12, 2008 at 5:37 PM, Michele Renda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> Hi Steve
>
> Thank you for the update.
>
> I think you (you all from openmoko) worked very well, and I am happy to
> know these update.
>
> According me was a good idea to remove some accessories to cut off the
> price: a lot of person, can not to have too much money to buy for something
> that still they don't know, so I think it is good to interest more persons /
> developer. Who need, can alway to buy the accessory he need.
>
> I am happy to tell to you that this evening I decided to buy a Freerunner,
> and I hope in a future to be able to produce something for the Openmoko
> comunity.
>
> Best regards
> Michele Renda
>
>
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Re: LCD protector

[clare]

My Neo1973 had a protector sheet on it when it arrived back in July.
It had a small tab in one corner to pull it off with which I cut back
a bit. It is pulled away very slightly at one edge, and has tiny 
imperfections  so I am sure it is still there. It is invisible in use.


At one time you had to buy them to fit the particular device, but I saw a
general purpose one you cut to size yourself in "Dick Smith"s last week.

clare

On Sat, 12 Apr 2008, Nick Guenther wrote:


On Sat, Apr 12, 2008 at 5:13 PM, Ajit Natarajan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Hello,

 A friend of mine who owns an iPhone purchased an LCD protector.  It is a
sheet of clear material cut to the dimensions of the LCD screen.  When
affixed to the screen, it doesn't affect touch screen operation. However, it
resists scratching and fingerprints can simply be wiped off.

 Is this something that will be needed on the Freerunner?  Or does the
Freerunner come with a scratch resistant screen/coating?  If a protector is
needed, will there be an option to purchase it?

 My friend told me that one needs to be careful when affixing the protector,
or ``bubbles'' will result.  It would be great if instructions could be
included with the protector on the best technique to affix it.


I sliced off the edges of some of my old Palm protectors and stuck it
to my Neo. It gets bubbles at first but after some use they just
disappear.
-Nick

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Re: LCD protector

[Nick Guenther]

On Sat, Apr 12, 2008 at 5:13 PM, Ajit Natarajan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hello,
>
>  A friend of mine who owns an iPhone purchased an LCD protector.  It is a
> sheet of clear material cut to the dimensions of the LCD screen.  When
> affixed to the screen, it doesn't affect touch screen operation. However, it
> resists scratching and fingerprints can simply be wiped off.
>
>  Is this something that will be needed on the Freerunner?  Or does the
> Freerunner come with a scratch resistant screen/coating?  If a protector is
> needed, will there be an option to purchase it?
>
>  My friend told me that one needs to be careful when affixing the protector,
> or ``bubbles'' will result.  It would be great if instructions could be
> included with the protector on the best technique to affix it.

I sliced off the edges of some of my old Palm protectors and stuck it
to my Neo. It gets bubbles at first but after some use they just
disappear.
-Nick

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Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

[Michele Renda]

Hi Steve

Thank you for the update.

I think you (you all from openmoko) worked very well, and I am happy to 
know these update.


According me was a good idea to remove some accessories to cut off the 
price: a lot of person, can not to have too much money to buy for 
something that still they don't know, so I think it is good to interest 
more persons / developer. Who need, can alway to buy the accessory he need.


I am happy to tell to you that this evening I decided to buy a 
Freerunner, and I hope in a future to be able to produce something for 
the Openmoko comunity.


Best regards
Michele Renda

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LCD protector

[Ajit Natarajan]

Hello,

A friend of mine who owns an iPhone purchased an LCD protector.  It is a 
sheet of clear material cut to the dimensions of the LCD screen.  When 
affixed to the screen, it doesn't affect touch screen operation. 
However, it resists scratching and fingerprints can simply be wiped off.


Is this something that will be needed on the Freerunner?  Or does the 
Freerunner come with a scratch resistant screen/coating?  If a protector 
is needed, will there be an option to purchase it?


My friend told me that one needs to be careful when affixing the 
protector, or ``bubbles'' will result.  It would be great if 
instructions could be included with the protector on the best technique 
to affix it.


Thanks.

Ajit



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Re: warranty

[Ian Stirling]

Ajit Natarajan wrote:

Hi Steve,

If a group joins together to purchase the 10-pack, how will the warranty 
work?  I presume that each unit is individually warranted.  I'm sure 
that warranty service will require a purchase receipt or some other 
proof of purchase.  What receipt would we use?  If we have to register, 
we would need to specify where we purchased the phone.  What should we say?




And perhaps now would be a point to mention what the warranty on the 
devices will be normally, it's not a point that's come up as far as I'm 
aware.




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warranty

[Ajit Natarajan]

Hi Steve,

If a group joins together to purchase the 10-pack, how will the warranty 
work?  I presume that each unit is individually warranted.  I'm sure 
that warranty service will require a purchase receipt or some other 
proof of purchase.  What receipt would we use?  If we have to register, 
we would need to specify where we purchased the phone.  What should we say?


Thanks.

Ajit

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Re: Quikwriting

[christooss]

Nice Idea. I havent seen this anywhere.

This would look really nice implemented in OpenMoko

Ortwin Regel wrote:

Quikwriting is the best input method for finger input on a small
touchscreen like the Neo's that I have come across.
http://mrl.nyu.edu/~perlin/demos/quikwriting.html
There have been positive comments towards it on the list before.
Does anyone have the time, motivation and ability to implement this on
Openmoko? It would be very useful for me. :)

Ortwin

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Re: linux-openmoko build error

[M Nader]

I meant 4194. It is already fixed now.

On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 7:14 AM, Flemming Richter Mikkelsen
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 4/10/08, M Nader <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> http://downloads.openmoko.org/sources/git_git.openmoko.org.git.kernel.git_4194.tar.gz
>  > It seems that 4914 (from same-srcrev.inc) doesn't exist. If so what
> > stable revision should I use?
>
> did you mean 4194 or 4914?
> --
> Please don't send me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See
> http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html
>
> Join the FSF as an Associate Member at:
> http://www.fsf.org/register_form?referrer=5774>
>
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Re: Wish list for future Freerunner

[Michael 'Mickey' Lauer]

On Saturday 12 April 2008 18:46:16 Ron K. Jeffries wrote:
> Next significant iteration of Freerunner
> should include light sensor.

Actually I have yet to see a device where a light sensor does not get in the 
way and eventually annoying a lot. This seems very hard to get right (both on 
the older iPAQs and the N8xx it's barely usable).

> My understanding
> is that's one part of iPhone secret sauce for intelligently
> dimming LCD while phone is held up to user's ear.

IIRC they're using a proximity sensor rather than a light sensor.

:M:


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Re: Quikwriting

[Alexander Frøyseth]

I agree, add it :D
That was genius.

ramsesoriginal skrev:

On Sat, Apr 12, 2008 at 5:13 PM, Ortwin Regel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  

Quikwriting is the best input method for finger input on a small
 touchscreen like the Neo's that I have come across.
 http://mrl.nyu.edu/~perlin/demos/quikwriting.html
 There have been positive comments towards it on the list before.
 Does anyone have the time, motivation and ability to implement this on
 Openmoko? It would be very useful for me. :)

 Ortwin




Sounds interesting. The only problem is user education.. but if it
works this could be a really good input method for finger input!


  



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Re: ssh over bluetooth

[Kristian 'kriss' Mueller]

Hey Pietro

Am Samstag, den 12.04.2008, 14:25 +0200 schrieb Pietro "m0nt0"
Montorfano:
> [..] ssh session (or something similar) over bluetooth. So is it
>  possible to use the neo like that? 

Yes, that's doable. You can use Personal Area Networking (PAN) with the
pand app in bluez.

If you like you can use the latest SettingsGUI Version to scan for
Bluetooth Peers and start a PAN connection to one of them.

I've written an article about the latest SettingsGUI release, and got
SSH and even IP Forwarding working to my Neo. See:

http://www.mput.de/blog/?p=20


Greetings from Berlin

Kristian
-- 
/* Web: http://www.mput.de  | Tel:+49 (0)170/6692447  *
 * Blog:http://mput.de/blog | ICQ:93248497*
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Wish list for future Freerunner

[Ron K. Jeffries]

Next significant iteration of Freerunner
should include light sensor. My understanding
is that's one part of iPhone secret sauce for intelligently
dimming LCD while phone is held up to user's ear.

related comment

yes there are far more important features/changes.
but this tiny (low COGS, high impact) item should not be
forgotten.




-- 
Ron K. Jeffries
http://blog.eronj.com
http://twitter.com/RonKJeffries
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Re: Quikwriting

[Ivo Anjo]

Just tried it, and it's very easy to pick up, and it shouldn't be hard to
implement.
I suggest trying the quickwriting 2.1 demo.

Ivo

On Sat, Apr 12, 2008 at 4:13 PM, Ortwin Regel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Quikwriting is the best input method for finger input on a small
> touchscreen like the Neo's that I have come across.
> http://mrl.nyu.edu/~perlin/demos/quikwriting.html
> There have been positive comments towards it on the list before.
> Does anyone have the time, motivation and ability to implement this on
> Openmoko? It would be very useful for me. :)
>
> Ortwin
>
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Re: Quikwriting

[ramsesoriginal]

On Sat, Apr 12, 2008 at 5:13 PM, Ortwin Regel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Quikwriting is the best input method for finger input on a small
>  touchscreen like the Neo's that I have come across.
>  http://mrl.nyu.edu/~perlin/demos/quikwriting.html
>  There have been positive comments towards it on the list before.
>  Does anyone have the time, motivation and ability to implement this on
>  Openmoko? It would be very useful for me. :)
>
>  Ortwin
>

Sounds interesting. The only problem is user education.. but if it
works this could be a really good input method for finger input!


-- 
My corner of the web: http://blog.ramsesoriginal.org

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Re: Smart LCD birght/dim...

[joerg]

Am Sa  12. April 2008 schrieb Marco Trevisan (Treviño):
> Since Freerunner won't have an hardware light sensor to set its LCD 
> brightness, I got some ideas about smartly changing the luminance of the 
> GTA02 screen to save its battery (still with an unknown life time :/).

Actually it's not very hard to have a light sensor in GTA02. There's 
everything you need on a decent testpoint. Just add a photodiode and a 
capacitor. PMU chip does the rest. :-) See 50633 datasheet.

cheers
jOERG

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Re: Listening to music/podcasts

[joerg]

Am Fr  11. April 2008 schrieb Flemming Richter Mikkelsen:
> On 4/11/08, Jens Fursund <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Freerunners!
> >
> > I was wondering if anyone know if it is possible to answer a call from
> > a headset while listening to music/podcasts. As in the music/podcast
> > stops and the call takes over by a click on the answer/hangup button
> > on the headset. Furthermore it would be great if we could implement a
> > feature where either espeak would read the name aloud when the call
> > comes in, or you would be able to provide your own sound to the call
> > (as to know who it is, without taking the phone out of your pocket, of
> > course).
> 
> 
> This is a great idea.
> I think the the headset only have one button for muting the mic. But not
> sure. 

The headset button does mute the mic. It's main function however is to trigger 
a hardware interrupt to the CPU, which can be used to start the actions you 
need to take a pending call. This IRQ function is not depending on on the 
mute, but mute is just a side effect of the way the button inside the headset 
works.

cheers
jOERG

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Re: Smart LCD birght/dim...

[Nick Guenther]

In particular, the wifi/gprs connection is going to suck a lot more
power than the dimming, and weather sites are never accurate to the
minute anyway (which *is* what you really need for this to be any
better than just having a readily accessible brightness slider).

On Sat, Apr 12, 2008 at 6:52 AM, Ortwin Regel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Exactly my thoughts: This sounds way too complicated to actually be
>  useful. I'd rather adjust my brightness manually.
>
>
>
>  On 4/12/08, Nick Guenther <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  > On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 8:50 PM, "Marco Trevisan (Treviño)"
>  > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  > > Since Freerunner won't have an hardware light sensor to set its LCD
>  > > brightness, I got some ideas about smartly changing the luminance of the
>  > > GTA02 screen to save its battery (still with an unknown life time :/).
>  > >  Of course they aren't and never will be precise as an hardware sensor 
> is,
>  > > but it's the only thing we have:
>  > >
>  > >  1) Setting the brightness following the hour of the day: also if the
>  > phone
>  > > can't know if it's sunny or cloudy, neither if you're indoor or outdoor,
>  > > it's clear that just knowing the hour of the day, the date and your
>  > latitude
>  > > (to be set once via GPS) the phone can easily know when the sun will rise
>  > > and set, and so it will be possible increasing or reducing the LCD
>  > > brightness.
>  > >  Also if you're indoor, I guess that when the sun is "gone" you won't 
> need
>  > > so much luminance...
>  > >
>  > >  2) Using personal profiles that follow your habits: you could define, 
> for
>  > > each hour of each week day the "presumed" luminance, using something like
>  > a
>  > > calendar. I mean, if on working-days I generally stay indoor every day
>  > from
>  > > 8:30 to 13:00 and from 15:00 to the 19:00 I figure that on these 
> intervals
>  > I
>  > > don't need all the LCD power, so I'll set in my "calendar" that on such
>  > > interval I'll be indoor...
>  > >  I guess that many of you would follow a routine durning the week, why
>  > don't
>  > > educate your phone for it!?
>  > >
>  > >  3) Setting the luminance following the weather. Of course I've no light
>  > > sensors, neither a barometer :P, but if I've a working connection
>  > available
>  > > I could use the weather data downloaded every few minutes (60, for
>  > example)
>  > > from internet to change my screen brightness (of course merging these
>  > > informations with points 1 and 2)
>  > >
>  > >  What do you think about them?
>  > >  I do think that they are really simple to implement, and that also if
>  > they
>  > > won't guarantee a perferct result, they could be a "smart" workaround.
>  > >
>  > >  --
>  > >  Treviño's World - Life and Linux
>  > >  http://www.3v1n0.net/
>  > >
>  >
>  >
>  > Or you could just... dim it after a few seconds and go blank after a
>  > minute like every other phone does. If we try to solve this by complex
>  > heuristics we're
>  > 1) going to get it wrong
>  > 2) going to end up wasting more battery in doing the computations than
>  > we save by them.
>  >
>  >
>  > -Nick
>  >
>
>
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Quikwriting

[Ortwin Regel]

Quikwriting is the best input method for finger input on a small
touchscreen like the Neo's that I have come across.
http://mrl.nyu.edu/~perlin/demos/quikwriting.html
There have been positive comments towards it on the list before.
Does anyone have the time, motivation and ability to implement this on
Openmoko? It would be very useful for me. :)

Ortwin

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Re: accelerometer thought

[Ben Burdette]

Yes, and my usage too... :) Good idea !

But what about a "not moving for a while" switch?

In my pocket, my bag, or other moving places, it will ring, and if it
is staying on a desktop, or near my bed, it will use vibrator...

But what happens if I try to locate it on my house, expecting it will
ring :p (This situation is frequent, for me :) )

  



What would be nice would be to have a system that would vibrate or ring
based on the caller's option.  This could work if there was a menuing
system on the phone for incoming calls.  If the phone is muted, with a
code you could override the silent ring and make it actually ring.

It could also work for the situation where I would like to call someone
late at night but I'm not sure if they're up.  Assuming they have an
openmoko phone and its past a certain hour, I'd get a menu that would
ask whether I want an audible ring or not.  Of course they could
override that and mute it completely, but for me this would be good.  I
often forget to un-mute my phone and end up missing calls.




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Re: accelerometer thought

[François TOURDE]

Le 13980ième jour après Epoch,
Joe Pfeiffer écrivait:

> Tim Shannon writes:
>>Sounds like a good idea, except for people who carry their phone in a bag,
>>but definitely useful as an option nonetheless.
>
> Sure -- I was careful to say *my* use!

Yes, and my usage too... :) Good idea !

But what about a "not moving for a while" switch?

In my pocket, my bag, or other moving places, it will ring, and if it
is staying on a desktop, or near my bed, it will use vibrator...

But what happens if I try to locate it on my house, expecting it will
ring :p (This situation is frequent, for me :) )

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Re: ssh over bluetooth

[Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller]

There is nothing special with ssh over Bluetooth.

In fact it is "ssh over TCP over IP over PPP (or similar) over  
Bluetooth RFCOMM".


Please refer for configuration details to

http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Bluetooth_Support#Networking

As soon as you have IP over Bluetooth, you can use ssh.



Am 12.04.2008 um 14:25 schrieb Pietro m0nt0 Montorfano:
Hi, from what I know everyone is talking about using the neo with  
the usb but noone has told anything regarding an ssh session (or  
something similar) over bluetooth. So is it possible to use the neo  
like that? Bluetooth usually provide a serial port emulation (rfcom)  
if it's like that we can provide something like a login shell over  
that tty (yes a login because the bluetooth protocol usually is not  
so secure). What about that?
Don't know if it's just a feature or if it's possible to implement  
something like that.


Cya

Pietro

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Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

[ramsesoriginal]

Thats great news!
Just a quick question: will it be possible to buy the lunchbox as an
own product?

On Sat, Apr 12, 2008 at 1:51 PM, Shawn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Thanks Steve for the update. I have my money all saved up and ready!
>
> . . .Shawn
>
>
> - Original Message 
> From: steve <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: List for Openmoko community discussion 
> Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 10:50:40 AM
> Subject: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
>
>
>
>  I thought I would combine a couple posts today. First an update on PVT, or
> production verification test. Phones are being sent to me from the first PVT
> run. Michael Shiloh will be back in Silicon valley next Tuesday, so he and I
> will test the samples and get them out to key partners. I want to check a
> couple things like using the Nokia batteries as spares and generic USB
> chargers before I send these samples out.
>
> Now, for the update on Products, and Pricing,
>
> 1. Products.
>
>  Orginally the FreeRunner ( GTA02) was planned to come out in two packages.
> Basic and advanced, just like the Neo 1973. We killed that idea. It was a
> quick humane death. The problem was the GTA02 advanced unit would have been
> $650 USD. After seeing the response to Neo 1973, a huge response, we decided
> the best path was to lower the price, reward our early developers, and
> attract more developers.
>
> 2. Pricing
> We scrubbed the BOM ( bill of materials). We eliminated the Luxurious bits.
> Optimized the box like it was code. The first thing we got rid of
> was the lunchbox. It was cool, but it was expensive and heavy. Eliminating
> that was a sizeable cost savings. ( think shipping weight).
>
> Next we pulled out the debug board and made it a separate product.  We
> priced it at $99 US. about 1 tenth what people would pay for similar
> capability.
>
> My goal was to get to a place where we could sell the FreeRunner at $399.
> USD.
>
> We did that.
>
> The FreeRunner will ship from Openmoko.com at $399. For early customers
> I'm looking at throwing in a few free things. More details later.
>
> The debug board will be available as a separate product for $99 USD.
>
> Many people wrote me mails asking if they could get a discount by buying
> more than one phone. Sometimes they were universities, sometimes a small
> business, sometimes a small group or club.
>
> For these people we created a 10Pack. instead of 399 per phone, we will
> charge 369 per phone.
>
>
> Over the next few days I will explain the next steps we go through and how
> the product will get distributed
>
>
> Steve
>
>
>
>
>
>
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-- 
My corner of the web: http://blog.ramsesoriginal.org

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Re: Smart LCD birght/dim...

[Matt Manjos]

I had a Compaq iPaq that did this via a little photodiode and it was
implemented well, but there are some times when you want a brighter
screen in the dark / darker screen in the daytime, so you're still
digging through menus.

On Sat, Apr 12, 2008 at 6:52 AM, Ortwin Regel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Exactly my thoughts: This sounds way too complicated to actually be
>  useful. I'd rather adjust my brightness manually.
>
>
>
>  On 4/12/08, Nick Guenther <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  > On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 8:50 PM, "Marco Trevisan (Treviño)"
>  > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  > > Since Freerunner won't have an hardware light sensor to set its LCD
>  > > brightness, I got some ideas about smartly changing the luminance of the
>  > > GTA02 screen to save its battery (still with an unknown life time :/).
>  > >  Of course they aren't and never will be precise as an hardware sensor 
> is,
>  > > but it's the only thing we have:
>  > >
>  > >  1) Setting the brightness following the hour of the day: also if the
>  > phone
>  > > can't know if it's sunny or cloudy, neither if you're indoor or outdoor,
>  > > it's clear that just knowing the hour of the day, the date and your
>  > latitude
>  > > (to be set once via GPS) the phone can easily know when the sun will rise
>  > > and set, and so it will be possible increasing or reducing the LCD
>  > > brightness.
>  > >  Also if you're indoor, I guess that when the sun is "gone" you won't 
> need
>  > > so much luminance...
>  > >
>  > >  2) Using personal profiles that follow your habits: you could define, 
> for
>  > > each hour of each week day the "presumed" luminance, using something like
>  > a
>  > > calendar. I mean, if on working-days I generally stay indoor every day
>  > from
>  > > 8:30 to 13:00 and from 15:00 to the 19:00 I figure that on these 
> intervals
>  > I
>  > > don't need all the LCD power, so I'll set in my "calendar" that on such
>  > > interval I'll be indoor...
>  > >  I guess that many of you would follow a routine durning the week, why
>  > don't
>  > > educate your phone for it!?
>  > >
>  > >  3) Setting the luminance following the weather. Of course I've no light
>  > > sensors, neither a barometer :P, but if I've a working connection
>  > available
>  > > I could use the weather data downloaded every few minutes (60, for
>  > example)
>  > > from internet to change my screen brightness (of course merging these
>  > > informations with points 1 and 2)
>  > >
>  > >  What do you think about them?
>  > >  I do think that they are really simple to implement, and that also if
>  > they
>  > > won't guarantee a perferct result, they could be a "smart" workaround.
>  > >
>  > >  --
>  > >  Treviño's World - Life and Linux
>  > >  http://www.3v1n0.net/
>  > >
>  >
>  >
>  > Or you could just... dim it after a few seconds and go blank after a
>  > minute like every other phone does. If we try to solve this by complex
>  > heuristics we're
>  > 1) going to get it wrong
>  > 2) going to end up wasting more battery in doing the computations than
>  > we save by them.
>  >
>  >
>  > -Nick
>  >
>  > ___
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>  > community@lists.openmoko.org
>  > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>  >
>
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ssh over bluetooth

[Pietro "m0nt0" Montorfano]

Hi, from what I know everyone is talking about using the neo with the 
usb but noone has told anything regarding an ssh session (or something 
similar) over bluetooth. So is it possible to use the neo like that? 
Bluetooth usually provide a serial port emulation (rfcom) if it's like 
that we can provide something like a login shell over that tty (yes a 
login because the bluetooth protocol usually is not so secure). What 
about that?
Don't know if it's just a feature or if it's possible to implement 
something like that.


Cya

Pietro

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Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

[Shawn]

Thanks Steve for the update. I have my money all saved up and ready! 

. . .Shawn

- Original Message 
From: steve <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: List for Openmoko community discussion 
Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 10:50:40 AM
Subject: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update



 I thought I would combine a couple posts today. First an update on PVT, or
production verification test. Phones are being sent to me from the first PVT
run. Michael Shiloh will be back in Silicon valley next Tuesday, so he and I
will test the samples and get them out to key partners. I want to check a
couple things like using the Nokia batteries as spares and generic USB
chargers before I send these samples out.

Now, for the update on Products, and Pricing,  

1. Products.

 Orginally the FreeRunner ( GTA02) was planned to come out in two packages.
Basic and advanced, just like the Neo 1973. We killed that idea. It was a
quick humane death. The problem was the GTA02 advanced unit would have been
$650 USD. After seeing the response to Neo 1973, a huge response, we decided
the best path was to lower the price, reward our early developers, and
attract more developers. 

2. Pricing
We scrubbed the BOM ( bill of materials). We eliminated the Luxurious bits.
Optimized the box like it was code. The first thing we got rid of
was the lunchbox. It was cool, but it was expensive and heavy. Eliminating
that was a sizeable cost savings. ( think shipping weight). 

Next we pulled out the debug board and made it a separate product.  We
priced it at $99 US. about 1 tenth what people would pay for similar
capability.

My goal was to get to a place where we could sell the FreeRunner at $399.
USD.

We did that.

The FreeRunner will ship from Openmoko.com at $399. For early customers
I'm looking at throwing in a few free things. More details later.

The debug board will be available as a separate product for $99 USD.

Many people wrote me mails asking if they could get a discount by buying
more than one phone. Sometimes they were universities, sometimes a small
business, sometimes a small group or club. 

For these people we created a 10Pack. instead of 399 per phone, we will
charge 369 per phone.

 
Over the next few days I will explain the next steps we go through and how
the product will get distributed


Steve



 


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Re: Data over normal GSM call

[thomasg]

That's not all, there are even more factors:
Mic -> A/D converter -> Codec (depends on net and quality: up to 5 different
codecs possible) -> Radio -> Air-Interface -> Radio ->Codec -> Voice Quality
Enhancer (VQE - who knows what this will do with your data, maybe just
dropping it at all) -> and the same way backwards, with different codecs.
And most important: there is no TCP or similar - you just can't know what
the other side will get.

On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 9:37 PM, Ian Stirling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> Diego Fdez. Durán wrote:
> 
>
> >
> > Can't you initiate a voice call between to FreeRunners and then use the
> > mic and mixer devs to modulate the data as sound?
> >
>
> Broadly yes.
>
> The problem is:
>
> A human making mobile - mobile call looks something like this.
>
> 1 microphone
> 2 analog-digital converter
> 3 GSM encoder
> 4 radio transmission
> 5 Add errors due to sunspots
> 6 radio reception
> 7 GSM decoder
> 8 ISDN-like 8KHz 8 bit sampling over mobile companies network
> 9 Public switched telephone network
>
> And then back again in reverse - with all the codec senses flipped.
>
> Any analog modem signal has to get through the GSM codec - twice - and
> survive bit errors. GSM is designed so that single bit errors make
> audibly similar output - but not similar numerically.
>
> The GSM codec is basically designed to throw away anything that is not
> voice-like.
>
> If you have a perfect radio channel, and can get at the digital data
> that would normally go to/from the codec (step 3) it won't help much for
> 'normal' modems - as you still have the GSM encode/decode cycle at the
> network side.
>
> In reality, what you have to do to push any sort of data through this
> link is to basically have a data-driven vocoder at one side, that
> gabbles - but makes sounds that could in principle be made by human
> throats, and a voice recogniser at the other end. This can get
> 1300bits/sec.
>
> CSD - 'data' GSM calls are different.
> Instead of using the normal GSM codec, they use a special codec that is
> designed for error-free data transmission.
> This can be broken out and transmitted over the normal phone network and
> end up in a device like an ISDN modem.
> Some ISPs 'normal' modems actually support this by default, so dialing
> just works.
> However, though this would be really nice to use - it's not free, and in
> many countries/telcos costs significant amounts to enable.
>
>
>
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Re: Smart LCD birght/dim...

[Ortwin Regel]

Exactly my thoughts: This sounds way too complicated to actually be
useful. I'd rather adjust my brightness manually.

On 4/12/08, Nick Guenther <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 8:50 PM, "Marco Trevisan (Treviño)"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Since Freerunner won't have an hardware light sensor to set its LCD
> > brightness, I got some ideas about smartly changing the luminance of the
> > GTA02 screen to save its battery (still with an unknown life time :/).
> >  Of course they aren't and never will be precise as an hardware sensor is,
> > but it's the only thing we have:
> >
> >  1) Setting the brightness following the hour of the day: also if the
> phone
> > can't know if it's sunny or cloudy, neither if you're indoor or outdoor,
> > it's clear that just knowing the hour of the day, the date and your
> latitude
> > (to be set once via GPS) the phone can easily know when the sun will rise
> > and set, and so it will be possible increasing or reducing the LCD
> > brightness.
> >  Also if you're indoor, I guess that when the sun is "gone" you won't need
> > so much luminance...
> >
> >  2) Using personal profiles that follow your habits: you could define, for
> > each hour of each week day the "presumed" luminance, using something like
> a
> > calendar. I mean, if on working-days I generally stay indoor every day
> from
> > 8:30 to 13:00 and from 15:00 to the 19:00 I figure that on these intervals
> I
> > don't need all the LCD power, so I'll set in my "calendar" that on such
> > interval I'll be indoor...
> >  I guess that many of you would follow a routine durning the week, why
> don't
> > educate your phone for it!?
> >
> >  3) Setting the luminance following the weather. Of course I've no light
> > sensors, neither a barometer :P, but if I've a working connection
> available
> > I could use the weather data downloaded every few minutes (60, for
> example)
> > from internet to change my screen brightness (of course merging these
> > informations with points 1 and 2)
> >
> >  What do you think about them?
> >  I do think that they are really simple to implement, and that also if
> they
> > won't guarantee a perferct result, they could be a "smart" workaround.
> >
> >  --
> >  Treviño's World - Life and Linux
> >  http://www.3v1n0.net/
> >
>
>
> Or you could just... dim it after a few seconds and go blank after a
> minute like every other phone does. If we try to solve this by complex
> heuristics we're
> 1) going to get it wrong
> 2) going to end up wasting more battery in doing the computations than
> we save by them.
>
>
> -Nick
>
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Re: next costumers location

[Federico Lorenzi]

On Sat, Apr 12, 2008 at 3:10 AM, "Marco Trevisan (Treviño)"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Pietro "m0nt0" Montorfano ha scritto:
>
>
> > What about a nice wiki page telling if you want to buy a neo where do you
> live and an email to contact? This could be useful to take the advantage to
> buy 10 neo at a time and then giving it to each one who was accorded.
> > Let me explain, i want a neo, i'm from italy, near milan, marco (usual
> name here) live in milan and wants a neo too, (and so on for 10 people)...
> > So pietro, marco and each other put an order together to minimize the cost
> of the neo, so everyone can get the neo at a smaller price.
> >
>
>  I agree, btw I think that it will be cheaper also if on a city we can't
> group 10 people, simply we'll order on the "most requested city", and from
> there we'll ship to other buyers... Standard shipping in Italy should be
> just 8€ more: that's definitely lower than 30$ :P...
... Not for long!

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Re: Data over normal GSM call

[joerg]

Am Fr  11. April 2008 schrieb Stefan Misch:
> Hi,
> 
> I just talked about this issue with a colleague who uses an HTC PDA with 
windows 
> mobile. For the data connection he uses a dial-up connection as a modem. He 
> doesn't have a data plan but a flat fee for voice calls into land lines.
> 
> He says he gets about up to 4K/s which is not much of course but it's still 
> possible to view light websites or emails with it. (I would not want to use 
it 
> with Google Maps for example which is one of the key features why I would 
want 
> mobile internet access.)
> 
> So I don't think it's impossible. Maybe the hardware and the codecs are 
> different on OpenMoko but I doubt that this is an obstacle that cannot be 
overcome.
> 
> All best,
> Stefan

That's simple CSD (see other posts of this thread). AFAIK it's supported by 
all carriers in Germany. I used it ~year2000 with a Nokia 6210 and a Palm5 on 
O2 without any problem. You can access internet via provider's accesspoint, 
or you can dial up a modem connected number at your home to run your own 
accesspoint/proxy. Anyways it's normal connection fee (as of y2k).

cheers
jOERG

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