Access Linux Platform SDK released
This one is based on GTK http://www.palminfocenter.com/news/9619/access-linux-platform-sdk-released/ What do you think of this? I'm worried about interoperability. There are a number of different Linux platforms now, but nothing guarantees applications will be easily portable across them. So I feel everyone is reinventing the wheel for every application! Is this really the case? seb ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Access Linux Platform SDK released
Sébastien Lorquet schrieb: This one is based on GTK http://www.palminfocenter.com/news/9619/access-linux-platform-sdk-released/ What do you think of this? I'm worried about interoperability. There are a number of different Linux platforms now, but nothing guarantees applications will be easily portable across them. So I feel everyone is reinventing the wheel for every application! Is this really the case? Looks like it and the signs are that it is not really getting better... LiMo gets more and more traction which is also rumored to use GTK+ but is so far the worst commercial player concerning open source relationship - or did anyone here see LiMo members around? Then there is Android - not exactly GTK+ but aiming at Linux mobile phones. Then there is LiPS. And now there is Nokia buying Trolltech and additionally having Maemo on their side. And a little off from the complete platform/GUI there are all those standardisation bodies that want to push their standards for various reasons. So far the fragmentation is growing and currently I do not see any signs that those competing commercial entities have any will to overcome their business competition and sit together for a second. I think the biggest problem currently is that all the players that want to set their mark in this territory want as well to set their claims with the technology or standard they are proposing. The Linux mobile market is still open, in contrast to the Linux desktop. And it is less complex than a desktop so even moderate companies can define their own standard, which they did. And now they want to make it the standard so that everyone in the future will have to buy their stuff or at least have to use their standard. This is not very productive, leads to fragmentation and does not help many - only the shareholders of the lucky winner of that fight (and luck is meant literally, this is a game of luck or have you seen the better one win in recent years? I just way Win :) seb Cheers nils faerber -- kernel concepts GbRTel: +49-271-771091-12 Sieghuetter Hauptweg 48Fax: +49-271-771091-19 D-57072 Siegen Mob: +49-176-21024535 -- ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Interview with Raider Realm
Michael, Thank you for your response, I truly appreciate it. No problem about the modification. I just wanted to know whether to ever expect such a thing. Ill be happy to use my GTA02 when I get one. One again thank you for your response. Michael Shiloh [EMAIL PROTECTED] 02/12/08 5:10 PM Hi Christopher, and the entire community, Christopher Earl wrote: I read the Raiders Realm interview with Michael Shiloh Here is the excerpt I will am talking about RR: So is all of the hardware you have for this FCC certified and ready to use on different networks? MS: Yup. Absolutely. Now it is a GSM based phone, both models, which means they both use a sim card and the GSM network which is pretty common here in the states, but much more common in the rest of the world. But there are some areas in the states that don't have coverage for that. But that's pretty small. In fact, I think it's virtually negligible. My question is of the 'Negligibility' of this issue. I do not know . nor do I claim to know, the number of GTA01s sold in the united states, and the ratio of those phones which found homes in GSM 850 areas. Nor, sadly, do I. I should not have used this expression. I had thought that most of the USA is covered by other frequencies, but I really don't know the facts, so I should not have made such a claim. I apologize, and stand corrected. I would like to request a confirmation that this issue is being seriously addressed. I have sent three separate emails this month and not one person can tell me if I will EVER be able to send my GTA01 in for repair. I will cover the cost of shipping. Unfortunately I was one of the sorry bastards to get my device before this was a known issue. Im not asking for anything for free, nor do I wish to cause anyone a hassle. I only wish that the apparent few of us whom live in a GSM 850 Dominate state can get their devices repaired, at our shipping cost. If the answer is I dont know,maybe in a few months or somthing like that, fine. I just want to know IF I can count on OpenMoko/FIC to rectify this issue now or in the future. I apologize for the lack of a response. I did receive your email and due to limited resources have simply not been able to respond until now. Regarding the issue of support for the 850MHz band on GTA01, I had tried to make this extremely clear in the original post and in the followup discussion. I apologize if I failed in this regard. We are not able to make the necessary changes to any of the shipped GTA01 units. For those of you who have the skills and equipment, we are not able to instruct you in making such a modification yourselves. Sincerely, Michael Shiloh ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Interview with Raider Realm
Will OpenMoko give any consideration to those of us who purchased the GTA01 before the tri-band issue was announced, to discount the price of a GTA02 to give us the functionality we thought we were initially purchasing? Like a trade-up of some sort like ATI used to do, where you send in your old ATI video card and they'd give you a discount towards a new one? -id Joachim Steiger wrote: Ortwin Regel [EMAIL PROTECTED] 02/12/08 3:22 PM It sounds like Michael was talking about GSM in general. The area not covered by that indeed does seem negligible in the US. You have got a different issue. From what I picked up, it is not reasonably possible to change the hardware in a GTA01 to support the 850 Mhz band. The best option you have is probably to sell your GTA01 and get a GTA02 that supports 850 Mhz when they become available. Ortwin this is correct. due to limited resources we had to decide to rather focus on gta02 and make 850MHz possible there instead of finding a reasonable process on reworking gta01. the point is that ((shipping and manhours doing it) + (the time to set the whole logistics and process up / number of possible wanted reworks)) just gives a very unrealistic number which makes it even cheaper to directly go to gta02-850 and sell the gta01 to somebody who can use it in 900mhz-land. reworking requires lots of time due to the high packaging density inside a phone and also measuring equipment which we only have in asia. (which generates hassle with customs, taxes, etc.. you really do not wanna know ;) its not only changing firmware in gsm and exchanging a few parts. it also needs to be recalibrated. to sum it up: the status is that a 850mhz rework for gta01 for 'the masses' is not possible. please bear with us that this was not a decision taken lightly. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Interview with Raider Realm
Ortwin Regel [EMAIL PROTECTED] 02/12/08 3:22 PM It sounds like Michael was talking about GSM in general. The area not covered by that indeed does seem negligible in the US. You have got a different issue. From what I picked up, it is not reasonably possible to change the hardware in a GTA01 to support the 850 Mhz band. The best option you have is probably to sell your GTA01 and get a GTA02 that supports 850 Mhz when they become available. Ortwin this is correct. due to limited resources we had to decide to rather focus on gta02 and make 850MHz possible there instead of finding a reasonable process on reworking gta01. the point is that ((shipping and manhours doing it) + (the time to set the whole logistics and process up / number of possible wanted reworks)) just gives a very unrealistic number which makes it even cheaper to directly go to gta02-850 and sell the gta01 to somebody who can use it in 900mhz-land. reworking requires lots of time due to the high packaging density inside a phone and also measuring equipment which we only have in asia. (which generates hassle with customs, taxes, etc.. you really do not wanna know ;) its not only changing firmware in gsm and exchanging a few parts. it also needs to be recalibrated. to sum it up: the status is that a 850mhz rework for gta01 for 'the masses' is not possible. please bear with us that this was not a decision taken lightly. -- Joachim Steiger developer relations/support ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Re: Patents and OpenMoko
Vasco Névoa wrote: Hi. Sorry to barge in like this, but I don't quite understand the problem to begin with... Isn't open source code by definition protected against subsequent patents? It is part of the patenting process to search for conflicting publications; if they find any, then the candidate idea is not a novelty and cannot be patented. Publishing is the best weapon against (subsequent) patents: cheap and effective. I think we should just add some way to automatically timestamp every code check-in in a legally binding way, like using some outside certification entity's digital signature (that carries a legally recognizable timestamp). An open-source public repository is a valid publication of ideas, which are therefore not patentable. What do you think? Bogdan Bivolaru already pointed out some practical issues with your theoretical outline. However, there are some additional issues: The biggest in my view is that you seem to assume that open source developers somehow (magic?) manage to write only code which does not infringe (in somebody's eyes) on existing patents, or won't infringe on already filed patents that haven't been published yet. There are even legal reasons to avoid doing a patent search before you start developing something, as you then avoid knowingly infringing, which makes a difference, at least in the US. Then there's the practical matter that if you have a collection of patents you can frequently come to some cross-licensing agreement if someone else in your industry starts hassling you with their patents. If you have nothing, it's much easier for them to grind you into the dirt, if only with legal fees, if they so desire. --Jon Radel smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Interview with Raider Realm
Hi Christopher, and the entire community, Christopher Earl wrote: I read the Raiders Realm interview with Michael Shiloh Here is the excerpt I will am talking about RR: So is all of the hardware you have for this FCC certified and ready to use on different networks? MS: Yup. Absolutely. Now it is a GSM based phone, both models, which means they both use a sim card and the GSM network which is pretty common here in the states, but much more common in the rest of the world. But there are some areas in the states that don't have coverage for that. But that's pretty small. In fact, I think it's virtually negligible. My question is of the 'Negligibility' of this issue. I do not know . nor do I claim to know, the number of GTA01s sold in the united states, and the ratio of those phones which found homes in GSM 850 areas. Nor, sadly, do I. I should not have used this expression. I had thought that most of the USA is covered by other frequencies, but I really don't know the facts, so I should not have made such a claim. I apologize, and stand corrected. I would like to request a confirmation that this issue is being seriously addressed. I have sent three separate emails this month and not one person can tell me if I will EVER be able to send my GTA01 in for repair. I will cover the cost of shipping. Unfortunately I was one of the sorry bastards to get my device before this was a known issue. Im not asking for anything for free, nor do I wish to cause anyone a hassle. I only wish that the apparent few of us whom live in a GSM 850 Dominate state can get their devices repaired, at our shipping cost. If the answer is I dont know,maybe in a few months or somthing like that, fine. I just want to know IF I can count on OpenMoko/FIC to rectify this issue now or in the future. I apologize for the lack of a response. I did receive your email and due to limited resources have simply not been able to respond until now. Regarding the issue of support for the 850MHz band on GTA01, I had tried to make this extremely clear in the original post and in the followup discussion. I apologize if I failed in this regard. We are not able to make the necessary changes to any of the shipped GTA01 units. For those of you who have the skills and equipment, we are not able to instruct you in making such a modification yourselves. Sincerely, Michael Shiloh ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Interview with Raider Realm
The GSM 850 is the issue I am addressing Ortwin Regel [EMAIL PROTECTED] 02/12/08 3:22 PM It sounds like Michael was talking about GSM in general. The area not covered by that indeed does seem negligible in the US. You have got a different issue. From what I picked up, it is not reasonably possible to change the hardware in a GTA01 to support the 850 Mhz band. The best option you have is probably to sell your GTA01 and get a GTA02 that supports 850 Mhz when they become available. Ortwin On 2/12/08, Christopher Earl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I read the Raiders Realm interview with Michael Shiloh Here is the excerpt I will am talking about RR: So is all of the hardware you have for this FCC certified and ready to use on different networks? MS: Yup. Absolutely. Now it is a GSM based phone, both models, which means they both use a sim card and the GSM network which is pretty common here in the states, but much more common in the rest of the world. But there are some areas in the states that don't have coverage for that. But that's pretty small. In fact, I think it's virtually negligible. My question is of the 'Negligibility' of this issue. I do not know . nor do I claim to know, the number of GTA01s sold in the united states, and the ratio of those phones which found homes in GSM 850 areas. I would like to request a confirmation that this issue is being seriously addressed. I have sent three separate emails this month and not one person can tell me if I will EVER be able to send my GTA01 in for repair. I will cover the cost of shipping. Unfortunately I was one of the sorry bastards to get my device before this was a known issue. Im not asking for anything for free, nor do I wish to cause anyone a hassle. I only wish that the apparent few of us whom live in a GSM 850 Dominate state can get their devices repaired, at our shipping cost. If the answer is I dont know,maybe in a few months or somthing like that, fine. I just want to know IF I can count on OpenMoko/FIC to rectify this issue now or in the future. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Interview with Raider Realm
It sounds like Michael was talking about GSM in general. The area not covered by that indeed does seem negligible in the US. You have got a different issue. From what I picked up, it is not reasonably possible to change the hardware in a GTA01 to support the 850 Mhz band. The best option you have is probably to sell your GTA01 and get a GTA02 that supports 850 Mhz when they become available. Ortwin On 2/12/08, Christopher Earl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I read the Raiders Realm interview with Michael Shiloh Here is the excerpt I will am talking about RR: So is all of the hardware you have for this FCC certified and ready to use on different networks? MS: Yup. Absolutely. Now it is a GSM based phone, both models, which means they both use a sim card and the GSM network which is pretty common here in the states, but much more common in the rest of the world. But there are some areas in the states that don't have coverage for that. But that's pretty small. In fact, I think it's virtually negligible. My question is of the 'Negligibility' of this issue. I do not know . nor do I claim to know, the number of GTA01s sold in the united states, and the ratio of those phones which found homes in GSM 850 areas. I would like to request a confirmation that this issue is being seriously addressed. I have sent three separate emails this month and not one person can tell me if I will EVER be able to send my GTA01 in for repair. I will cover the cost of shipping. Unfortunately I was one of the sorry bastards to get my device before this was a known issue. Im not asking for anything for free, nor do I wish to cause anyone a hassle. I only wish that the apparent few of us whom live in a GSM 850 Dominate state can get their devices repaired, at our shipping cost. If the answer is I dont know,maybe in a few months or somthing like that, fine. I just want to know IF I can count on OpenMoko/FIC to rectify this issue now or in the future. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Interview with Raider Realm
I read the Raiders Realm interview with Michael Shiloh Here is the excerpt I will am talking about RR: So is all of the hardware you have for this FCC certified and ready to use on different networks? MS: Yup. Absolutely. Now it is a GSM based phone, both models, which means they both use a sim card and the GSM network which is pretty common here in the states, but much more common in the rest of the world. But there are some areas in the states that don't have coverage for that. But that's pretty small. In fact, I think it's virtually negligible. My question is of the 'Negligibility' of this issue. I do not know . nor do I claim to know, the number of GTA01s sold in the united states, and the ratio of those phones which found homes in GSM 850 areas. I would like to request a confirmation that this issue is being seriously addressed. I have sent three separate emails this month and not one person can tell me if I will EVER be able to send my GTA01 in for repair. I will cover the cost of shipping. Unfortunately I was one of the sorry bastards to get my device before this was a known issue. Im not asking for anything for free, nor do I wish to cause anyone a hassle. I only wish that the apparent few of us whom live in a GSM 850 Dominate state can get their devices repaired, at our shipping cost. If the answer is I dont know,maybe in a few months or somthing like that, fine. I just want to know IF I can count on OpenMoko/FIC to rectify this issue now or in the future. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Patents and OpenMoko
Vasco Névoa wrote: Hi. Sorry to barge in like this, but I don't quite understand the problem to begin with... Isn't open source code by definition protected against subsequent patents? Yes, normally patent granting offices do search for prior art, but how thorough do they seek it? How do you deal with incapable and ill wanting individuals inside patent granting offices? It is part of the patenting process to search for conflicting publications; if they find any, then the candidate idea is not a novelty and cannot be patented. Publishing is the best weapon against (subsequent) patents: cheap and effective. From what I have seen so far prior art is most successful as an argument when actually challenging the patent in justice / in patent offices. By showing prior art, freedom software developers can demote a patent: look no further than the patent suit filed by Trend Micro against Barracuda / ClamAV. What is actually needed every time someone is trying to enforce a bogus patent (called a thicket) is a white knight that comes to rescue freedom projects. Although the license fee was not very high for the TrendMicro patent and they could have easily paid, Barracuda stood up for ClamAV, in fact defending the project. http://blogs.zdnet.com/open-source/?p=1952 I think we should just add some way to automatically timestamp every code check-in in a legally binding way, like using some outside certification entity's digital signature (that carries a legally recognizable timestamp). Of course one can assume that if most freedom projects were using digital signatures and timestamping authorities, that could discourage patent holders to go against freedom developers. But I should remark that a freedom free-beer timestamping authority has yet to be found! Maybe http://cacert.org will take up the role, maybe not. An open-source public repository is a valid publication of ideas, which are therefore not patentable. Patents are a danger to freedom software because they force hobby developers (poor, no money) to hire lawyers to reach the point in the justice system where presenting prior art is actually relevant for challenging the patent - in a counter-suit. Of course that's what the Linux defense fund is for, but one should know that such a fund is not limitless - it can only finance a part of free projects, probably the most important ones. Going back to the Barracuda example, Barracuda says there is a lot of prior art here http://www.infoworld.com/article/08/01/29/Trend-Micro-stresses-tested-patent-in-trade-case_1.html [http://www.infoworld.com/article/08/01/29/Trend-Micro-stresses-tested-patent-in-trade-case_1.html ] and the patent is overly broad. But fortunately, courts move slowly. There is plenty of time for discovery [discovery of prior art that is] to proceed, on both of Barracuda’s defense claims. We’ll have legal and political answers on the use of patents to deny innovation long before any verdict here. The fact that courts move slowly is fortunate only because Barracuda is a company with a fair amount of lawyers and financing , if it weren't for them ClamAV would have either be forced to either look for sponsors for the suits or to close doors. What do you think? Eh, i guess it is not very easy to find sponsors when someone's putting a cold knife at your neck, is it? Who [as in what company] would risk investing their money in such a risk endeavor? Maybe they will help you, maybe they will try to avoid you and your problems and find alternatives to your software. If you want to learn how much innovation lies in a patent and about patents in general please go to http://www.researchoninnovation.org/WordPress/. I had learnt that the leading country in bogus patent claims is US, which is currently undergoing a patent reform: http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080205-eff-says-patent-reform-could-bust-its-patent-busting-project.html Quoting from the EFF stance on this reform (link above): The post-grant review system would allow nonprofits like the EFF to challenge bum patents for only 12 months after they are issued. In the EFF's view, this isn't nearly enough time to become aware of dodgy patents and the impact they will have on the tech community at large. The group would prefer to retain the current reexamination system and simply add post-grant review to the process. Hope my post helps you understand better the current patent system. Let us how the patent system will shape up after this reform! I hope for the better! ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Patents and OpenMoko
Hi. Sorry to barge in like this, but I don't quite understand the problem to begin with... Isn't open source code by definition protected against subsequent patents? It is part of the patenting process to search for conflicting publications; if they find any, then the candidate idea is not a novelty and cannot be patented. Publishing is the best weapon against (subsequent) patents: cheap and effective. I think we should just add some way to automatically timestamp every code check-in in a legally binding way, like using some outside certification entity's digital signature (that carries a legally recognizable timestamp). An open-source public repository is a valid publication of ideas, which are therefore not patentable. What do you think? - Mensagem Original - De: Sean Moss-Pultz [EMAIL PROTECTED] Data: Terça-Feira, 12 de Fevereiro de 2008, 4:25 Assunto: Re: Patents and OpenMoko Nils, Thanks a lot for such an indepth reply. I need to think about a lot of these points. Let me just comment on a few now... On 2/11/08 Nils Faerber wrote: [snip] Are there any existing options available to us now? Does anyone know of existing companies or organizations with a similar strategy that we can seek guidance or partnership. Again, I want to emphasize that we only want our patents to be used in defense. And what constitutes defense is something that we want to be able to define (and potentially even redefine when new threats arise). This is a noble aim but very very difficult to reach. Perhaps. But I think we should try our best... Speaking as a free software acitvist especially software patents are a complete no-go. Speaking as community guy I would say that with the software patents you would have to sign and publish a non-revocable community contract that sais quite explicitely for which use you would accept royaltee free use and of which patents. Only then the community would be safe. Else, at some later point in time, someone at OpenMoko/FIC might change their mind and try to make money from the patents. I think there is a way to get around this legal. We're getting some advice from the SFLC later this week. I'll keep everyone posted as to our plans. Thanks in advance for the help. My very quick advice: Don't get your hands dirty with patents, especially with software. You will loose a lot of credibility in the free software world and the benefit is questionable. With all due respect, I must disagree here. Not filing for patents, is hardly an option for a global company in this day and age. The larger we get, the more of target we become. I'm confident we can reach a solution that will be helpful for both our business and the community. I will keep you all posted as to our progress. Sean ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Ponha a sua Vida em Grande Plano! 10% DESCONTO ADICIONAL para adesoes on-line. Clique aqui para saber mais http://www.iol.pt/correio/rodape.php?dst=0801301 ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
