More things from other distros (Re: Bug#904019: ITP: libxcrypt -- Extended crypt library for DES, MD5, Blowfish and others)

[Hideki Yamane]

On Wed, 18 Jul 2018 13:35:42 +0200
"Marco d'Itri"  wrote:
> I intend to package the new version of libxcrypt, which will replace the 
> orphaned libxcrypt source package.
> 
> Some day it may replace crypt(3), currently provided by glibc:
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Replace_glibc_libcrypt_with_libxcrypt

 Great.


 And we can learn more improvements from other distributions, IMO,
 so I've done for Linux kernel config (https://bugs.debian.org/898629)

 curl https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=897950
 and time https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=881429,
 maybe more...


-- 
Regards,

 Hideki Yamane henrich @ debian.org/iijmio-mail.jp

Bug#904228: ITP: python-certbot-dns-sakuracloud -- SakuraCloud plugin for Certbot

[Harlan Lieberman-Berg]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Harlan Lieberman-Berg 

* Package name: python-certbot-dns-sakuracloud
  Version : 0.26.1
  Upstream Author : Electronic Frontier Foundation
* URL : https://certbot.eff.org
* License : Apache-2.0
  Programming Lang: Python
  Description : SakuraCloud plugin for Certbot

This is the SakuraCloud DNS plugin for Certbot.  It will be managed
under the auspices of the Debian Let's Encrypt Team.

Bug#904227: ITP: python-certbot-dns-gehirn -- Gehirn DNS plugin for Certbot

[Harlan Lieberman-Berg]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Harlan Lieberman-Berg 

* Package name: python-certbot-dns-gehirn
  Version : 0.21.1
  Upstream Author : Electronic Frontier Foundation
* URL : https://certbot.eff.org
* License : Apache-2.0
  Programming Lang: Python
  Description : Gehirn DNS plugin for Certbot

 This plugin will be maintained under the auspices of the Debian Let's
 Encrypt team.

Re: Should the weboob package stay in Debian?

[Russ Allbery]

Dmitry Smirnov  writes:

> With all due respect, you did not research the matter enough and neither
> am I... Just as I was checking online dictionaries to see if I've missed
> something as terrible as you say, I've found that "boob" is a reference
> to "embarrassing mistake" or "foolish or stupid person".  Evidence
> suggests that "weboob" may be semantically interpreted as word play
> around something entirely non sexual.

>   https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/boob
>   https://www.thefreedictionary.com/boob
>   https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/boobs
>   https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=dictionary%3A%20boobs

This attempt to manufacture excuses for upstream is absurd.

There is a ton of context here, both from the imagery on the upstream web
site and the other program names in the package.  It's completely obvious
that the word "boob" is referring to female anatomy, and the rest of the
package is an extended riff on that joke.

You can certainly disagree about how important that is or what impact it
might have, but let's at least be honest about the obvious intent.  Not
the slightest hint of mind reading is required.

-- 
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org)   

Re: Should the weboob package stay in Debian?

[Mike Hommey]

On Sun, Jul 22, 2018 at 09:39:51AM +0900, Marc Dequènes (duck) wrote:
> Quack,
> 
> It seems the project is leaving the decision about Weboob onto me, so I'll
> try to address it.
> 
> The diversity statement tells me we should welcome others even if they are
> very different and with conflicting opinions but nothing beyond that. There
> is no policy part that I found helpful.
> I discarded heated reaction from the thread of discussion to isolate the
> most constructive remarks.
> 
> We've been able to draft guidelines about what we consider not acceptable at
> events and called this "code of conduct". This does not need to be universal
> but in our community we were able to agree on some criteria and I think this
> is making our world better. I don't think we should write an infinite list
> of rules but guidelines based on non-emotional objective points to consider.
> 
> There was part of the discussion about the intent of these upstream authors,
> but we're not mind reader and in the end the impact on people, and solving
> this if we can, is more important than judging people.
> 
> I've also excluded any consideration about the usefulness of this software.
> As long as one single DD is willing to maintain a software it is fine being
> in according to the policy. Also being very useful does not grant any
> special allowance to be nasty.
> 
> So I've considered these criteria:
> 
> 1) is it insulting?
> There was an insult targeting homosexuals, but a contributor proposed a fix
> and upstream accepted it without discussion.

but... https://git.weboob.org/weboob/devel/merge_requests/232

Mike

Re: Should the weboob package stay in Debian?

[duck]

Quack,

On 2018-07-22 09:52, Mike Hommey wrote:


but... https://git.weboob.org/weboob/devel/merge_requests/232


Thanks for pointing this out. It's not in yet and I've just asked 
upstream to clean this mess.


\_o<

--
Marc Dequènes

Re: Should the weboob package stay in Debian?

[Wookey]

On 2018-07-21 12:54 +0200, Wouter Verhelst wrote:
> On Fri, Jul 20, 2018 at 01:34:19PM +1000, Dmitry Smirnov wrote:
> > I refuse to judge the matter with my feelings.
> 
> Rationality has a place, but so do feelings.
> 
> The names in this package are offensive, plain and simple. 

_To_some_people_. 

I think they're funny, which I think is what was intended by
upstream. I enjoy a gratuitous boob-or-handjob mention as much as the
next 14 year old. On the other hand I don't think the homophobic
user-abuse is funny, but the authors probably do/did (apparently still do
given the change from 'fag' to 'soyboy').

Yes, it's pretty-much the definition of puerile humour. No it's not
inclusive or welcoming. But on balance I think we should err on the
side of live and let live, because this is a very diverse place, we
don't agree on much beyond the benefits of free software, and
providing useful software in Debian is a good thing for all our
downstreams to choose from.

So yes, I'd leave it in, whilst encouraging upstream to reduce the
laddishness, because that is offputting for quite a lot of people, and
is just no longer cool amongst adults. (if it ever was).

Wookey
-- 
Principal hats:  Linaro, Debian, Wookware, ARM
http://wookware.org/


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: Should the weboob package stay in Debian?

[duck]

Quack,

It seems the project is leaving the decision about Weboob onto me, so 
I'll try to address it.


The diversity statement tells me we should welcome others even if they 
are very different and with conflicting opinions but nothing beyond 
that. There is no policy part that I found helpful.
I discarded heated reaction from the thread of discussion to isolate the 
most constructive remarks.


We've been able to draft guidelines about what we consider not 
acceptable at events and called this "code of conduct". This does not 
need to be universal but in our community we were able to agree on some 
criteria and I think this is making our world better. I don't think we 
should write an infinite list of rules but guidelines based on 
non-emotional objective points to consider.


There was part of the discussion about the intent of these upstream 
authors, but we're not mind reader and in the end the impact on people, 
and solving this if we can, is more important than judging people.


I've also excluded any consideration about the usefulness of this 
software. As long as one single DD is willing to maintain a software it 
is fine being in according to the policy. Also being very useful does 
not grant any special allowance to be nasty.


So I've considered these criteria:

1) is it insulting?
There was an insult targeting homosexuals, but a contributor proposed a 
fix and upstream accepted it without discussion. It should not have been 
there in the first place though.
As for the "boob" part, it is puerile, very bad taste, disturbing that 
people could be so obsessed as to name their software like this, but 
there's no message at all so it cannot be insulting.


2) is it stripping people of their dignity?
According to Wikipedia there are four main categories of problems:

- is it humiliating?
  « It is an emotion felt by a person whose social status, either by 
force or willingly, has just decreased.[1] It can be brought about 
through intimidation, physical or mental mistreatment or trickery, or by 
embarrassment »
  In our case there is no misrepresentation of persons or anything 
implied from the focus on this specific anatomic part.


- is it an instrumentalization or objectification?
  it is clearly objectifying women as a source of sexual attraction. 
There is no message, so no one is trying to sell you cars or manipulate 
you in any way with it though.
  Interestingly the allegory of dignity by Cesare Ripa is quite 
evocative. and a huge amount of what we consider art is often 
emphasizing on the woman's beauty in more or less suggestive ways.
  Weboob is clearly not very subtle about it, but I'm pretty sure other 
representations also make some of us feel uncomfortable.
  Also this representation does not target specific persons and is not 
representing women as weak or submissive.


- is it degrading?
  « These are acts that, even if done by consent, convey a message that 
diminishes the importance or value of all human beings. »
  This does no apply here as there is no depiction of act or even any 
message.


- is it dehumanizing?
  « These are acts that strip a person or a group of their human 
characteristics. It may involve describing or treating them as animals 
or as a lower type of human beings. »
  Apart from objectification already discussed, there is no implication 
that woman are only good for sex or any such message.
  Maybe some of the Weboob authors do not think highly of woman but 
we're discussing the package content and not judging people's thoughts 
(which we cannot be sure to know anyway).



So apart from objectification of women, but without instrumentalization 
or degrading message, I was not able to find serious consequences. As 
much as I would prefer things to be different (I already told upstream 
in the past) I don't feel I have any right or special wisdom allowing me 
to dictate people to act and think differently. Banning content because 
it displease me and make people uncomfortable while no direct harm has 
been found is unlikely to have a positive effect. Consequently unless 
harmful content I'm not aware of is discovered in this package I am not 
going to remove it from the archive. I would consider adding a neutral 
warning message in the package description though, so people can 
individually decide for themselves if this is acceptable from their own 
point of view.


I'll be coming at DebConf this year. Feel free to come and discuss it 
with me.

\_o<

--
Marc Dequènes

Re: Should the weboob package stay in Debian?

[Dmitry Smirnov]

On Friday, 20 July 2018 9:01:45 PM AEST Jonathan Dowland wrote:
> Dmitry is not claiming to disagree; he's stating that he doesn't
> understand.

Excuse me but I have not stated that I don't understand.

Disagreement is not the same as not understanding.
I think our (only) disagreement is regarding severity of the issue.
I think I do understand the problem but I have other concerns regarding side 
effects and consequences as well as concerns for proper justifications.

I've expressed concerns about irrational decisions and dangers of emotional 
judgements based on personal projections.

-- 
Best wishes,
 Dmitry Smirnov.

---

To predict the behavior of ordinary people in advance, you only have to
assume that they will always try to escape a disagreeable situation with
the smallest possible expenditure of intelligence.
-- Friedrich Nietzsche


signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part.

Re: Should the weboob package stay in Debian?

[Dmitry Smirnov]

On Saturday, 21 July 2018 9:02:15 PM AEST Wouter Verhelst wrote:
> It's not an "uncomfortable reference to (a) part of (the) human body".
> It's a wholly inappropriate reference to a part of the *female* body
> often associated with sex, which therefore is a mysogynistic and
> demeaning reference to women.

With all due respect, you did not research the matter enough and neither am 
I... Just as I was checking online dictionaries to see if I've missed 
something as terrible as you say, I've found that "boob" is a reference to 
"embarrassing mistake" or "foolish or stupid person".
Evidence suggests that "weboob" may be semantically interpreted as word play 
around something entirely non sexual.

  https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/boob
  https://www.thefreedictionary.com/boob
  https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/boobs
  https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=dictionary%3A%20boobs


Once again, please don't ignore context. Certain words may be used in 
offensive context but they are not necessarily offensive on their own.

Here presumably offensive context appears to be implied, or projected.

Mind that you are promoting the worst possible interpretation and that's not 
a good thing...

-- 
Cheers,
 Dmitry Smirnov.

---

You have to start with the truth. The truth is the only way that we can
get anywhere. Because any decision-making that is based upon lies or
ignorance can't lead to a good conclusion.
-- Julian Assange, 2010



signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part.

Re: MemberBenefits - Steam Keys (Was: Bits from the DPL (May 2018))

[Samuel Henrique]

Hello everyone,

I sent an email on 1st June (when this thread started) to debian-steam[a]
collabora.com requesting it but got no response.
Is it still going?

Did you receive a reply Alexandre?

Thanks

On Fri, 1 Jun 2018 at 16:10, Alexandre Viau  wrote:

> On 2018-06-01 01:22 PM, Andrej Shadura wrote:
> > The benefit should still be valid. The person responsible for it is
> > already looking into it, expect a reply shortly ;)
>
> Great, thanks :)!
>
> --
> Alexandre Viau
> av...@debian.org
>
>
>

-- 
Samuel Henrique 

Bug#904224: ITP: feathernotes -- FeatherNotes is a lightweight Qt5 hierarchical notes-manager for Linux. It is independent of any desktop environment.

[Alf Gaida]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Alf Gaida 

* Package name: feathernotes
  Version : 0.4.5
  Upstream Author : Pedram Pourang, a.k.a. Tsu Jan tsujan2...@gmail.com
* URL : https://github.com/tsujan/FeatherNotes
* License : GPL
  Programming Lang: C++
  Description : FeatherNotes is a lightweight Qt5 hierarchical 
notes-manager for Linux.

FeatherNotes (by Pedram Pourang, a.k.a. Tsu Jan tsujan2...@gmail.com) is a 
lightweight Qt5
hierarchical notes-manager for Linux. It is independent of any desktop 
environment and has:

* Support for rich text formatting, image embedding and inserting editable 
tables;
* Drag-and-drop capability for moving nodes and also for embedding images;
* A tray icon for quick access on any desktop;
* Correct position/size saving and restoring with most window managers;
* Compact but complete search and replacement widgets;
* The ability to include searchable tags (hidden info on each node);
* Support for local and remote hyperlinks (bookmarks);
* Text zooming;
* Printing and exporting to HTML and PDF;
* Password protection;
* Auto-saving; and

Other features that can be found in its settings, on its menus or when it is 
actually used.

Usefulness: We don't have a Qt based note taking application right now, so 
FeatherNotes will
a great enhenchment of the LXQt and Qt portfolio at all. The LXQt packaging 
team will maintain
it.

Bug#904222: ITP: puppet-module-voxpupuli-corosync -- Puppet module for corosync / pacemaker

[Thomas Goirand]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Thomas Goirand 

* Package name: puppet-module-voxpupuli-corosync
  Version : 5.0.0
  Upstream Author : Puppet Labs Inc
* URL : https://github.com/voxpupuli/puppet-corosync
* License : Apache-2.0
  Programming Lang: Puppet
  Description : Puppet module for corosync / pacemaker

 Puppet lets you centrally manage every important aspect of your system using a
 cross-platform specification language that manages all the separate elements
 normally aggregated in different files, like users, cron jobs, and hosts,
 along with obviously discrete elements like packages, services, and files.
 .
 puppet-corosync manages things like virtual IP shared in a cluster.

Bug#904205: ITP: adapta-kde -- Port of the popular Gtk theme Adapta for Plasma 5 desktop

[Franciscarlos Soares]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Franciscarlos Soares 

* Package name: adapta-kde
  Version : 20180618
  Upstream Author : Alexey Varfolomeev 
* URL : https://github.com/PapirusDevelopmentTeam/adapta-kde
* License : (GPL-3.0+
  Programming Lang: N/A
  Description : Port of the popular Gtk theme Adapta for Plasma 5 desktop

  adapta-kde is a port of the popular Gtk theme Adapta for Plasma 5 desktop with
  a few additions and extras.
  .
  In this repository you'll find:
  .
   * Aurorae Theme
   * Konsole Color Schemes
   * Kvantum Themes
   * Plasma Color Schemes
   * Plasma Desktop Theme
   * Plasma Look-and-Feel Settings
   * Wallpaper
   * Yakuake Skins

Re: Bug#904019: ITP: libxcrypt -- Extended crypt library for DES, MD5, Blowfish and others

[Michael Stone]

On Sat, Jul 21, 2018 at 02:35:59AM +0100, Ben Hutchings wrote:

I think you can do something like:

[...]

# postinst time: use link & rename to replace working version atomically.


It's technically possible, but AFAICT a policy violation.

Mike Stone

Re: Should the weboob package stay in Debian?

[Ian Jackson]

Wouter Verhelst writes ("Re: Should the weboob package stay in Debian?"):
> On Fri, Jul 20, 2018 at 10:34:28AM +0200, Ansgar Burchardt wrote:
> > The current policy[1] leaves it up to the maintainers to make this
> > judgement and I don't think a discussion on -devel@ will reach a
> > consensus that would take away the responsibility here.
> 
> That's a good point. However, while the final decision is for the
> maintainers to make, there's no reason why we can't discuss it to bring
> up arguments one way or the other. This can only help the maintainer to
> make the right decision (provided we discuss the actual subject).

I don't think the maintainer's decision about this is "final", no more
than it is about any other interpretation of policy or project
standards or rc-bugginess or licences or anything else.

The policy says that the maintainer should make a decision about this;
but it often says the maintainer should decide this or that and that
does not preclude review by (eg) the release team, ftpmaster, the TC,
or, ultimately, GR.

But the starting point is certainly the maintainer.  And it is good
for maintainer to solicit input, as they have done in this case.

Ian.

-- 
Ian JacksonThese opinions are my own.

If I emailed you from an address @fyvzl.net or @evade.org.uk, that is
a private address which bypasses my fierce spamfilter.

Re: Should the weboob package stay in Debian?

[Wouter Verhelst]

On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at 10:02:23PM +1000, Dmitry Smirnov wrote:
> On Thursday, 19 July 2018 7:43:39 PM AEST Wouter Verhelst wrote:
> > weboob itself is fine, maybe. But there are various other binaries
> > inside the weboob packages that aren't, at least not so much:
> > 
> > wetboobs
> > handjoob
> > boobsize
> > boobtracker
> > 
> > like, seriously.
> 
> Yuck... :( Incredibly tasteless and probably intentionally controversial...
> 
> I see your point and I agree with you yet renaming might still be 
> inappropriate and/or ineffective.

It might be ineffective, but that doesn't mean we should ignore the issue.

> I'd like to see stronger justification for replacing uncomfortable reference
> to part of human body

It's not an "uncomfortable reference to (a) part of (the) human body".
It's a wholly inappropriate reference to a part of the *female* body
often associated with sex, which therefore is a mysogynistic and
demeaning reference to women.

> because why should it be uncomfortable? If double "O" is a problem

The double "o" is not a problem. The reference to boobs is.

> then how are we not offended by Google? If we swap body part reference
> to another body part like "leg" or "arm", it becomes just ridiculous. 

Yes, but that's not what this is about.

> I have no intention to defend this particular package but more interested in 
> principle of justifying such actions.

I'm not. The current situation is terrible. We should fix it.

If we have another similar situation in the future, we can decide then
what we need to do; but we don't need rules for everything, especially
not for matters of (bad) taste.

> > > Asking person to change his name because it is unpleasant to us would be
> > > beyond rude.
> > 
> > This is true, but not relevant to the issue at hand (which is about
> > weboob).
> 
> That was about misuse of diversity statement. My point is about how 
> inappropriate renaming might be, if pushed too far.

Nobody is suggesting that we rename a person, we only suggest to rename
binaries and/or a package. Therefore this is not being pushed too far,
and your tangent is irrelevant.

-- 
Could you people please use IRC like normal people?!?

  -- Amaya Rodrigo Sastre, trying to quiet down the buzz in the DebConf 2008
 Hacklab

Re: Should the weboob package stay in Debian?

[Wouter Verhelst]

On Fri, Jul 20, 2018 at 10:34:28AM +0200, Ansgar Burchardt wrote:
> Matthew Vernon writes:
> > We shouldn't need to have numbers of people having to justify why a
> > particular thing is offensive before we (as a project) try and fix
> > it.
> 
> That works if Debian was a non-diverse groups where everyone had similar
> views on what is offensive.  In that case the maintainer could just have
> done whatever or would not have uploaded the package at all.
> 
> Sadly(?) Debian is too diverse and "we (as a project)" won't agree on
> what is offensive or where what level of offensive content is okay.

We don't need to do that to decide that in *this* instance the mark has been
reached.

> In this case I feel like we might as well try to reach a consensus on
> whether pride parades are a display of sexual depravity, sexual
> liberation or self-objectification; or skipping that part any trying to
> agree if and how pride parades should be fixed.

This is not about pride parades, this is about a number of badly named
programs in a package in Debian.

> The current policy[1] leaves it up to the maintainers to make this
> judgement and I don't think a discussion on -devel@ will reach a
> consensus that would take away the responsibility here.

That's a good point. However, while the final decision is for the
maintainers to make, there's no reason why we can't discuss it to bring
up arguments one way or the other. This can only help the maintainer to
make the right decision (provided we discuss the actual subject).

-- 
Could you people please use IRC like normal people?!?

  -- Amaya Rodrigo Sastre, trying to quiet down the buzz in the DebConf 2008
 Hacklab

Re: Should the weboob package stay in Debian?

[Wouter Verhelst]

On Fri, Jul 20, 2018 at 01:34:19PM +1000, Dmitry Smirnov wrote:
> I refuse to judge the matter with my feelings.

Rationality has a place, but so do feelings.

The names in this package are offensive, plain and simple. Are other
names offensive? Maybe. Does that mean we should do nothing until we've
come up with some general "rule" as to what's allowed and what's not?

Hell no.

Note, I'm not saying we should kick weboob out. But these names are
offensive, and I think it's fair for us to tell upstream "we don't like
that, please do something about it".

Upstream might well (will probably) say "no". But that doesn't
invalidate the point.

-- 
Could you people please use IRC like normal people?!?

  -- Amaya Rodrigo Sastre, trying to quiet down the buzz in the DebConf 2008
 Hacklab

Bug#904186: ITP: git-sizer -- compute various size metrics for a Git repository

[Dmitry Smirnov]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Dmitry Smirnov 
X-Debbugs-CC: debian-devel@lists.debian.org, 
pkg-go-maintain...@lists.alioth.debian.org

   Package name: git-sizer
Version: 1.2.0
Upstream Author: GitHub
License: Expat
URL: https://github.com/github/git-sizer
Vcs-Browser: https://salsa.debian.org/go-team/packages/git-sizer
Description: compute various size metrics for a Git repository
 git-sizer computes various size metrics for a Git repository, flagging
 those that might cause problems or inconvenience. For example:
 .
  • Is the repository too big overall?
  • Does the repository have too many references (branches and/or tags)?
  • Does the repository include too many objects?
  • Does the repository include gigantic blobs (files)?
  • Does the repository include many slightly different large text files?
  • Does the repository include gigantic trees (directories)?
  • Does the repository have many identical files?
  • Does the repository include absurdly long path names?
  • Are there other bizarre and questionable things in the repository?
• Annotated tags pointing at one another in long chains?
• Octopus merges with dozens of parents?
• Commits with gigantic log messages?
 .
 git-sizer can help to reveal the problems described above.


signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part.