Re: algorithm copyright? what's that?
On Tue, Oct 02, 2007 at 02:20:46PM +0200, Nicolas Limare wrote: Terms and conditions for using, copying, distribution and modification of FooBar versions 2.x and 3.x. You acknowledge to be informed about the following facts, and you accept the consequences: [...] You agree to: [...] But, I wonder if this licence has any legal value. It reads to me like a contract, not a (bare) license. In the contract, the other party is granted the copyright license to copy, modify etc and in exchange the party agrees to follow those other (non-copyright) requirements (sort of like someone might agree to pay a specific sum, which is not a copyright requirement either). I wouldn't say it is obviously without legal value, and as a conservative estimate I would assume that the whole document is legally binding. Beyond that, I cannot say. Is it a kind of algorithm copyright? No. IANAL etc -- Antti-Juhani Kaijanaho, Jyväskylä, Finland http://antti-juhani.kaijanaho.fi/newblog/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/antti-juhani/ signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: algorithm copyright? what's that?
Antti-Juhani Kaijanaho [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Is it a kind of algorithm copyright? No. In some countries there is. They call it a patent. IANAL etc Neither am I. -- Måns Rullgård [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: algorithm copyright? what's that?
On Wed, Oct 03, 2007 at 09:16:55AM +0100, Måns Rullgård wrote: Antti-Juhani Kaijanaho [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Is it a kind of algorithm copyright? No. In some countries there is. They call it a patent. A patent is not a copyright. -- Antti-Juhani Kaijanaho, Jyväskylä, Finland http://antti-juhani.kaijanaho.fi/newblog/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/antti-juhani/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: algorithm copyright? what's that?
Patents are totally separate from Copyrights. For a patent, you need to show that the item being patented is new, useful, and non-obvious. You also would have a patent registration number on file with a nation's patent office. Copyrights don't have the same requirements and therefore you can copyright a software algorithm. However, there are some restrictions on what Copyright protection will be granted. For example, if there are only so many ways a person can formulate an expression, a court will grant minimum protection. One example was a case where a software company copied Lotus's menu labels and incorporated it into their own software. The court said there were only so many ways to inform the software user where the print command is, etc. The best advice I can give is to consult an attorney who focuses on copyrights and license agreements. Such an attorney will be the best option because the attorney will also be able to give you a better understanding of the license. Ryan R. Matt If you truly believe, then you will find a way to achieve When the window of opportunity closes on you, simply go through the door. What the mind believes, the body achieves! ~unknown - Original Message From: Måns Rullgård [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: debian-legal@lists.debian.org Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2007 4:16:55 AM Subject: Re: algorithm copyright? what's that? Antti-Juhani Kaijanaho [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Is it a kind of algorithm copyright? No. In some countries there is. They call it a patent. IANAL etc Neither am I. -- Måns Rullgård [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] Luggage? GPS? Comic books? Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mailp=graduation+giftscs=bz
Re: algorithm copyright? what's that?
On Wednesday 03 October 2007 04:38:10 am Ryan R. Matt wrote: Patents are totally separate from Copyrights. For a patent, you need to show that the item being patented is new, useful, and non-obvious. You also would have a patent registration number on file with a nation's patent office. Copyrights don't have the same requirements and therefore you can copyright a software algorithm. This last sentence is most curious... that copyrights and patents have different requirements does not inexorably lead to the conclusion that you can copyright a software algorithm. My understanding is that an algorithm is an idea not expression... a method, a process, a way of getting something done. The computer code is the expression of that algorithm, but they are two distinct entities. It is a generally accepted principle (although there are certain places in the case law where exceptions can be found) that ideas are protected by patents and expressions are protected by copyrights and the two do not overlap. Back to the license in question... they have a copyright in the expression of their algorithm, but unless they have gone through the process of patenting they do not hold a patent on the idea that is the algorithm, and thus anyone is free to re-implement that algorithm on their own. -Sean p.s. still can't say I am a lawyer, 'cause I still haven't ponied up the money to the Cali State Bar. -- Sean Kellogg e: [EMAIL PROTECTED] w: http://blog.probonogeek.org/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: algorithm copyright? what's that?
Please don't top-post. Ryan R. Matt [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Patents are totally separate from Copyrights. [...] Yes. Copyrights don't have the same requirements and therefore you can copyright a software algorithm. No. Copyright applies only to a *specific, copyable expression* of an idea, not the idea itself. Any number of people can express the same algorithm in different ways, and when they commit those expressions to some tangible form such as a program, every one of them is copyrightable separately. The abstract algorithm remains untouched by this. Provided you don't derive your work from someone else's specific copyrighted expression, you can re-express the algorithm in your own way and gain your own copyright in the expression, without being affected by the other implementors' copyrights. -- \A man may be a fool and not know it -- but not if he is | `\married. -- Henry L. Mencken | _o__) | Ben Finney -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
algorithm copyright? what's that?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi. I have questions about the licence of a software collection I am trying to package. Here is a copy of this licence, al real names removed to avoid unwanted googling. FOOBAR PUBLIC LICENCE Terms and conditions for using, copying, distribution and modification of FooBar versions 2.x and 3.x. You acknowledge to be informed about the following facts, and you accept the consequences: - FooBar is a soft-publication for the scientific community, intented to offer reproducible research in image processing. - FooBar is maintained by the image department of the XYZ, a public French laboratory associated to the CNRS 0123 unit. - The image department is founded by the XYZ only, using public funds and private grants for software development. - FooBar has been implemented for research purposes only; it comes therefore without any warranty. - The FooBar compiler and the system libraries are known to run on some computer models and operating systems only. - The XYZ may not maintain this software in the future. - The XYZ can not help any user to install nor to use the software. - The XYZ may not publish all of the code contained in the various versions of FooBar. - For transparency, the published code contains the source of the mathematical algorithms developed at the XYZ. You are allowed to copy, modify and redistribute these programs. The XYZ claims to impose on the diffusion and on the use of its software the same rules than the well-known rules which apply to paper publication. You agree to: - inform without delay the XYZ about any contract between yourself or your department and any private or public organization, in the case where its execution uses an algorithm (modified or not) included in FooBar. You will inform this organization about the origin of these algorithm by writing in the contract the use of the FooBar software. - make mention in all products (as computer programs or scientific papers) which take advantage of an algorithm included in FooBar (modified or not), of the use of this software together with the name(s) of the author(s) written in the header of the corresponding module and with the address of the XYZ and of other laboratories implied in the development, if any. Address: FooBar, XYZ, Somewhere, France. E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Last version available at: http://www.xyz.server.fr/Xyz/FooBar = Clearly, the licence is not DFSG-free, because of the 2nd part, 2nd item, inform without delay the XYZ about any contract between yourself (outcast testcase). But, I wonder if this licence has any legal value. It requires me to inform and mention the authors if I use the *algorithms* used by this software. Is it a kind of algorithm copyright? I guess no such copyright can possibly exist. If I'm right, then this licence is void, then the copyright falls back to the standard Berne copyright convention, which means non-free, no distribution, and so on. Could someone confirm or correct my assumptions? Thanks - -- Nicolas LIMARE smtp:[EMAIL PROTECTED]pgp:0xFA423F4F xmpp:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://nicolas.limare.net -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFHAjeevviFAPpCP08RAjJWAJ44Az2OJT/xUiH5anj0RX95AVemHgCeNx4b IvO1FvQXRWDBtJT8L4BojMk= =Ynu7 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
