Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Paid developers
On 15/05/2011 03:58, Marc Paré wrote: Hi Ian Le 2011-05-14 18:14, Ian Lynch a écrit : Totally agree with this. OOo had some severe problems in the early days simply because it was not easy to install across hundreds of machines on a network. All schools tend to be organised on networks so installations will be hundreds of a machines at a time which is good and a real incentive to make it easy to maintain. Not sure of the situation now. Could it be improved? I am on the dev list and I don't think that any devs have shown interest in this. Plus the fact that there are few devs who would have access to a network. We need to provided committed devs to network labs to test fully test out network installations and updates. I have 4 linux boxes and 2 windows boxes at home. I may turn my house into a server-run house this summer and test out network installation. Cheers Marc I can help as well I have one windows desktop another drive on same desktop with linux a linux server, another windows laptop linux netbook and to macbooks -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[tdf-discuss] Re: Paid developers
Hi Ian Le 2011-05-14 18:14, Ian Lynch a écrit : Totally agree with this. OOo had some severe problems in the early days simply because it was not easy to install across hundreds of machines on a network. All schools tend to be organised on networks so installations will be hundreds of a machines at a time which is good and a real incentive to make it easy to maintain. Not sure of the situation now. Could it be improved? I am on the dev list and I don't think that any devs have shown interest in this. Plus the fact that there are few devs who would have access to a network. We need to provided committed devs to network labs to test fully test out network installations and updates. I have 4 linux boxes and 2 windows boxes at home. I may turn my house into a server-run house this summer and test out network installation. Cheers Marc -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] desktop integration
Hi Bernhard, *, On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 2:57 AM, Bernhard Dippold wrote: > Valentin schrieb: >> >> I tested today the latest LibreOffice builds (beta 5 of 3.4) and I saw >> the >> better desktop integration in the Ubuntu-Desktop (10.10). Good work! >> But ... since years there is one thing, that I absolutely don't like. It's >> this gradient on the "drop down"-Button: >> http://www.pic-upload.de/view-9943211/gradient.png.html >> >> It's possible to make look the button a bit more nicer? Keep up the good >> work, thank you for all! > > Can you provide a button with a better gradient? This is not a fixed-color button. > If so, we could ask the developers to have a look at the code and find the > relevant string to replace the image (if it is an image - if it's just a > gradient, we might not be able to modify it easily more than just in the > colors of the end points). Not even the colors are hardcoded, but depend on the theme So this problem is a classical "worksforme" or "notourbug" kind of thing. ciao Christian -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] desktop integration
Hi Valentin, all, Valentin schrieb: Hello guys! I tested today the latest LibreOffice builds (beta 5 of 3.4) and I saw the better desktop integration in the Ubuntu-Desktop (10.10). Good work! But ... since years there is one thing, that I absolutely don't like. It's this gradient on the "drop down"-Button: http://www.pic-upload.de/view-9943211/gradient.png.html It's possible to make look the button a bit more nicer? Keep up the good work, thank you for all! Can you provide a button with a better gradient? If so, we could ask the developers to have a look at the code and find the relevant string to replace the image (if it is an image - if it's just a gradient, we might not be able to modify it easily more than just in the colors of the end points). It would be great if you could join the design team (http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design#Communication) for such tasks. Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Paid developers
On 14 May 2011 17:56, Marc Paré wrote: > Hi Ian et al > > Le 2011-05-14 07:29, Ian Lynch a écrit : > >> Whilst certification seems a good strategy, what about parental power >>> being exerted upon schools? One would imagine that if parents >>> (espcialy of low income families) were aware of free software, they >>> would implore schools to follow suit. >>> >>> >> How do you get to those parents? Through the schools? ..Wait, isn't it the >> schools that are not ready to change? >> >> See the problem? >> >> >> If we want to get LibreOffice accepted at school level we need to make > sure that our product has a solid reputation for network install and > support. Incremental update capability would also have to be part of the > package. > > Totally agree with this. OOo had some severe problems in the early days simply because it was not easy to install across hundreds of machines on a network. All schools tend to be organised on networks so installations will be hundreds of a machines at a time which is good and a real incentive to make it easy to maintain. Not sure of the situation now. Could it be improved? Cheers > > Marc > > > -- > Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org > Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette > List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be > deleted > > -- Ian Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications The Schools ITQ www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940 You have received this email from the following company: The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth, Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and Wales. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[tdf-discuss] Re: Paid developers
Le 2011-05-14 17:10, Jean Hollis Weber a écrit : On Sat, 2011-05-14 at 12:29 +0100, Ian Lynch wrote: How do you get to those parents? Through the schools? ..Wait, isn't it the schools that are not ready to change? I think it varies with the country and perhaps the State. In Australia we have "Parent-Teacher Associations", which could be the best place to reach parents directly. Also, the degree of autonomy of individual schools can vary a lot with the country and the state. Marc is, I believe, in Canada, which may have quite a different system than in the USA, for example. One person with experience getting free software into schools is Christian Einfeldt, a California lawyer and free software activist, who is based in San Francisco. Ian will remember Christian from that Linux expo we attended in San Diego some years ago. He's very active on Twitter these days; among other things, he talks about his successes (and failures) getting free s/w into schools. http://twitter.com/einfeldt --Jean I finally found a link that I had archived. The Indiana Department of Education had plans of moving over 300,000 computers to Linux along with OOo. Here is the link: http://www.doe.in.gov/olt/InACCESS/index.html. Not sure if they did move to linux as there is no other mention on their site. We have had similar threads and discussions on this topic. When I have time, I'll try to document the main ideas on the wiki as this is one area of LibreOffice that does interest me. Network installation/updating and accessibility issues are what, IMHO, would slow down the adoption in the educational field. For LibreOffice adoption, countries where school autonomy from the point of view of software acquisition is where we can make in-roads with well placed marketing strategies. Cheers Marc in Canada :-) -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Paid developers
On Sat, 2011-05-14 at 12:29 +0100, Ian Lynch wrote: > How do you get to those parents? Through the schools? ..Wait, isn't it the > schools that are not ready to change? I think it varies with the country and perhaps the State. In Australia we have "Parent-Teacher Associations", which could be the best place to reach parents directly. Also, the degree of autonomy of individual schools can vary a lot with the country and the state. Marc is, I believe, in Canada, which may have quite a different system than in the USA, for example. One person with experience getting free software into schools is Christian Einfeldt, a California lawyer and free software activist, who is based in San Francisco. Ian will remember Christian from that Linux expo we attended in San Diego some years ago. He's very active on Twitter these days; among other things, he talks about his successes (and failures) getting free s/w into schools. http://twitter.com/einfeldt --Jean -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[tdf-discuss] Re: Paid developers
>On 13 May 2011 21:50, e-letter wrote: > >> >On 12 May 2011 17:55, Marc Par=E9 wrote: >> > >> >> Le 2011-05-11 17:01, Samuel M a =E9crit : >> >> >> >> I believe, that The Document Foundation can employ Developers for >> >>> LibreOffice. I believe the community is able to get the money for that >> on a >> >>> monthly base. >> >>> >> >>> We saw that the community was able to rise 50.000=80 in 8(!) days. It >> will >> >>> be possible to get that money in a year for one full-time developer. >> >>> These two examples show that this works even over a longer period of >> time >> >>> (note that these projects are much smaller than LibreOffice): >> >>> - Ardour (http://ardour.org): $4500 are raised every month to pay the >> >>> main developer >> >>> - Linux Mint (http://linuxmint.com): $5500 were raised in April to pay >> >>> the main developer >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> Despite from having full-time developers, for volunteer developers it >> >>> would be nice to get money for fixing a specific bug / implementing a >> >>> feature. Ardour has such a system where you can donate for a specific >> issue: >> >>> http://ardour.org/bugbounty >> >>> I think something like this would bring great benefit to LO, since >> users >> >>> can show what they want to be fixed most and developers get some money >> for >> >>> coding (or at their option donate it to TDF). >> >>> >> >>> To be honest, if we could convince most school districts in any count= >ry >> to >> >> adopt the use of LibreOffice as their main suite, dropping MSO and >> >> contributing a small percentage of their "per seat" cost savings, then >> we >> >> could see some distrcits paying to have accessibility issues worked on >> or >> >> some other aspect of LibreOffice that would be of interest to them. >> >> >> > >> >In essence this was the idea behind setting up the INGOTs. Your idea is >> >simpler *if* you can get agreement with large centralised bureaucracies. >> >It's not easy, I have been trying for more than 10 years ;-) >> > >> >Schools in the UK make individual decisions about the resources they use. >> We >> >had to make INGOT certification wider than just OOo/LO simply because mo= >st >> >are entrenched in MSO. OTOH we know some have switched as a result of >> >learning more about FOSS through the certification process. If we can >> >generate volume international take up, funding developers on the project >> >would be easy. >> > >> >> Whilst certification seems a good strategy, what about parental power >> being exerted upon schools? One would imagine that if parents >> (espcialy of low income families) were aware of free software, they >> would implore schools to follow suit. >> > >How do you get to those parents? Through the schools? ..Wait, isn't it the >schools that are not ready to change? > >See the problem? > Perhaps, but one would have expected parents and/or pupils to search via internet for 'free word processor' and hopefully an open source product would appear prominently in the search results. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[tdf-discuss] Re: Paid Developers
>On Fri, May 13, 2011 at 10:36 PM, e-letter wrote:
>> On 13/05/2011, discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org
>> wrote:
>>> Topics (messages 6130 through 6131):
>>>
>>> [tdf-discuss] Re: Paid Developers
>>> =A0 =A0 =A0 6130 - Ian Lynch
>>> =A0 =A0 =A0 6131 - ???
>>
>> When can someone improve mailing list behaviour with web mail clients
>> like gmail???
>
>Sorry, but what do you mean?
>Obviously the mailinglist has no influence whatsoever how a webmail or
>regular mailclient behaves.
>
Is this true? Surely different mailing list manager software will
function differently?
>> Even for this e-mail digest, the reply function results
>> in deletion of the original message content, apart from the text shown
>> above. This means a text editor has to be used...:(
>
>Sorry, please be more descriptive. That mail (#6131) is this one:
>http://www.mail-archive.com/discuss@documentfoundation.org/msg06225.html
>http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/msg06096.html
>
A digest message is received
Opening the message shows all of the content
After activating the 'reply' function, the reply text box does not
contain the original digest message content
>As you mentioned gmail: Gmail will not show your own messages as it
>will be received by the mailinglist, but only as it leaves gmail,
>similarily gmail doesn't properly quote html-messages when replying in
>text-only mode ("quoting level" gets lost). So what is the exact
>problem?
>
The problem is that replies to messages cannot be performed directly.
This behaviour does not occur in other mailing lists, e.g. gnuplot.
--
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Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Paid Developers
On 05/13/2011 02:49 PM, Marc Paré wrote: Hi Ian Le 2011-05-13 05:27, Ian Lynch a écrit : Thanks for the info on the INGOTs. Having served on committees in charge of software acquisition, both at local and provincial level, I find the greatest reluctance on adopting is simply "networking". While many of our school districts would like to move to LibreOffice, the vast majority rely on recommendations from their IT departments which are MS certified. In order to provide greater acceptance of our product we need to supply solid support from the point of view its "network-ability". IT departments need to know that LibreOffice will work on their network and if there are problems that help is readily available. If there is no such service then the cost/seat is irrelevant -- MS Office is then kept. So, in my mind, we (the LibreOffice membership) should establish efficient "national" network help support. That is to say, for example, in my case, IT departments would have support help from LibreOffice.ca. There should also be "for profit" support available locally should IT departments prefer to acquire this support. We could easily promote both support models on a national scale if we were to have enough national developers attracted to our project alongside a certification programme. Perhaps to start off, we could offer free certification for dev's interested in the networking programming area of LibreOffice ... just to "seed" such a programme. As a side note -- Dev's interested in the "networking", "connectivity" of LibreOffice would also need access to a network "lab" of computers to expand/trouble-shoot network related issues. LibreOffice could maybe establish regional headquarters where it would fund labs where devs could physically work on networking issues. Research and development funds could be raised with this purpose in mind. Cheers Marc If an msi is provided network installs can be done through microsofts group policy. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[tdf-discuss] Re: Paid Developers
Hi Ian et al Le 2011-05-13 15:07, Ian Lynch a écrit : As a side note -- Dev's interested in the "networking", "connectivity" of LibreOffice would also need access to a network "lab" of computers to expand/trouble-shoot network related issues. LibreOffice could maybe establish regional headquarters where it would fund labs where devs could physically work on networking issues. Research and development funds could be raised with this purpose in mind. All of this takes resources so its a bit of a Catch 22. Well, not really a Catch 22. We are the opensource company trying to market our software. So, as we have quite a large user base (at one point there was talk that 100 million users using OOo), we should be able to fundraise enough to fund such projects. I think it's all a matter of choices and strategy. The TDF/LibreOffice should devote part of its fundraising funds to establish corporate headquarters somewhere and use their offices or a network lab as testing facilities for networked LibreOffice install/use. We need to offer a solid product that is easily installed over a network of computers as well as assure that updates are done with the least amount of disturbances and ease. Incremental updates are best done rather than deleting/replacing the whole product. School districts/boards should be considered in the same way we would view large corporations. In most cases, school districts have to deal with hundreds of networked computers. Office suites are installed/updated remotely over the network. This is where LibreOffice, if interested in penetrating the educational/academic circles, needs to work on. Our devs would then need access to a lab of networked computers to test LibreOffice network-ability. Cheers Marc -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[tdf-discuss] Re: Paid developers
Hi Ian et al Le 2011-05-14 07:29, Ian Lynch a écrit : Whilst certification seems a good strategy, what about parental power being exerted upon schools? One would imagine that if parents (espcialy of low income families) were aware of free software, they would implore schools to follow suit. How do you get to those parents? Through the schools? ..Wait, isn't it the schools that are not ready to change? See the problem? I have had great success at exactly this. I have had my students switch to OOo at home and by doing this, parents put pressure on the school district to offer some relief by having their software accept ODF formats. On the contrary, I find most school districts are interested in all software packages regardless of company. IT departments have to deal with the networking installation/support/updates of these into their computer networks. If we want to get LibreOffice accepted at school level we need to make sure that our product has a solid reputation for network install and support. Incremental update capability would also have to be part of the package. School districts/boards need to be treated exactly like large corporations. We have to think in terms of network installs and the updates should also be easy to undertake over networks. Cheers Marc -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Paid developers
On 13 May 2011 21:50, e-letter wrote: > >On 12 May 2011 17:55, Marc Paré wrote: > > > >> Le 2011-05-11 17:01, Samuel M a écrit : > >> > >> I believe, that The Document Foundation can employ Developers for > >>> LibreOffice. I believe the community is able to get the money for that > on a > >>> monthly base. > >>> > >>> We saw that the community was able to rise 50.000€ in 8(!) days. It > will > >>> be possible to get that money in a year for one full-time developer. > >>> These two examples show that this works even over a longer period of > time > >>> (note that these projects are much smaller than LibreOffice): > >>> - Ardour (http://ardour.org): $4500 are raised every month to pay the > >>> main developer > >>> - Linux Mint (http://linuxmint.com): $5500 were raised in April to pay > >>> the main developer > >>> > >>> > >>> Despite from having full-time developers, for volunteer developers it > >>> would be nice to get money for fixing a specific bug / implementing a > >>> feature. Ardour has such a system where you can donate for a specific > issue: > >>> http://ardour.org/bugbounty > >>> I think something like this would bring great benefit to LO, since > users > >>> can show what they want to be fixed most and developers get some money > for > >>> coding (or at their option donate it to TDF). > >>> > >>> To be honest, if we could convince most school districts in any country > to > >> adopt the use of LibreOffice as their main suite, dropping MSO and > >> contributing a small percentage of their "per seat" cost savings, then > we > >> could see some distrcits paying to have accessibility issues worked on > or > >> some other aspect of LibreOffice that would be of interest to them. > >> > > > >In essence this was the idea behind setting up the INGOTs. Your idea is > >simpler *if* you can get agreement with large centralised bureaucracies. > >It's not easy, I have been trying for more than 10 years ;-) > > > >Schools in the UK make individual decisions about the resources they use. > We > >had to make INGOT certification wider than just OOo/LO simply because most > >are entrenched in MSO. OTOH we know some have switched as a result of > >learning more about FOSS through the certification process. If we can > >generate volume international take up, funding developers on the project > >would be easy. > > > > Whilst certification seems a good strategy, what about parental power > being exerted upon schools? One would imagine that if parents > (espcialy of low income families) were aware of free software, they > would implore schools to follow suit. > How do you get to those parents? Through the schools? ..Wait, isn't it the schools that are not ready to change? See the problem? -- > Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org > Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette > List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be > deleted > -- Ian Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications The Schools ITQ www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940 You have received this email from the following company: The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth, Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and Wales. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] German Foreign Office is dropping only open source software policy
> > Also the guidance was poor and the apps did not get updated for years. So > the endusers in the diplomatic services > got displeased more and more, but the responsible persons in > the administration choose the wrong way out. > This is the short version, you can read a bit more at the H : > > http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/German-Foreign-Office-explains-open-source-elimination-1241804.html All this really highlights is the danger of government lock-in to single commercial interests. The snag with an all-encompassing monopoly is that if it goes wrong and it's the established way, people will say "oh that is just the way it is with technology". If it goes wrong after a change from the established system they say "We need the established system". National education systems should be teaching the underlying principles of technology and it's commercial ramifications, particularly at government level. Changing technology is easy, changing people and their attitudes is not. -- Ian Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications The Schools ITQ www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940 You have received this email from the following company: The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth, Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and Wales. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Question
On Fri, 2011-05-13 at 21:36 +0300, Marius Popa wrote: > Good evening! My name is Marius Popa, a user running both the latest stable > version and the latest beta version of LibreOffice, and I want to know what > should I do to digitally sign a document? Thanks in advance and I am looking > forward for your message. > This is described in the Help under "Applying Digital Signatures". Available in the program itself or on this wiki page: http://help.libreoffice.org/Common/Applying_Digital_Signatures --Jean -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
