Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Mentoring program @OSGeo[-women]
At terrible risk of going against the grain here, but I don't like discrimination, whatever its guise and whatever its motive. Call me idealistic, but it has been my experience that discrimination has only one outcome and that is discrimination. Me, I'm human; so far I've never worked or encountered a non-human intelligence so I cannot comment beyond humanity. But I can say I've worked with some great humans and some crap humans and some mediocre humans in a wide variety of sectors, and I observed no relationship between their greatness/crapness/mediocrity and their gender/sexual preferences/race/religion/musical tastes or even, despite my expectations, whether they or not they liked dogs. Adjustments in behaviour, organisational structures, language, special programmes et al. to favour one identifiable group over others serves only to discriminate against the others. It does nothing to resolve the real issue, which is the mistaken belief that all members of one identifiable group are inherently unable or less able to do a thing, or the similarly mistaken belief that the behaviour of one or two people from an established community towards you or your identifiable group is something you can then tar that other entire identifiable group with. In fact such affirmative action has the opposite result; it fosters discrimination by continually reinforcing the idea that one group needs help over another opposite group and, worse, reinforces the idea that these broad group distinctions are real rather than artificial constructs. It seems to me that the greatest cause of discrimination statistics is that idea that occurs when you see yourself as being part of an identifiable group and use that to guide your behaviour i.e. when you look to your groups' behaviours for guidance on what it is you might do with your life. Maybe my crazy brand of idealism is doomed to failure; maybe, for example, Baha'i followers will only ever engage in occupations that other Baha'i do, and Hindus will only ever do jobs other Hindus do. It remains however my hope (and guides how I act myself) that people will realise that these groupings, like most others, are entirely artificial when it comes to determining what you do in life, and that others will join me in that belief and act accordingly. Regards Chris - Original Message - Hi all, and sorry for cross-posting, I want to share with you what I found, surfing from link to link from a mail sent to Systers ml. I stumbled first on http://www.linuxpromagazine.com/Online/Blogs/ROSE-Blog-Rikki-s-Open-Source-Exchange/Inequality-Choices-and-Hitting-a-Wall but I felt it was not the case of OSGeo. Then I found a link about the female representation in 2010 Google Summer of Code - very encouraging: http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2010/08/sixth-annual-summer-of-code-flexes-some.html and finally a good seed for OSGeo-women: http://www.linuxpromagazine.com/Online/Blogs/ROSE-Blog-Rikki-s-Open-Source-Exchange/FOSS-Mentoring-A-tribute-to-female-mentors What about a mentoring program like Debian-women's? http://women.debian.org/mentoring/ feedback is most welcome! cheers, Anne -- http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Anne_Ghisla ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss -- Files attached to this email may be in ISO 26300 format (OASIS Open Document Format). If you have difficulty opening them, please visit http://iso26300.info for more information. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Mentoring program @OSGeo[-women]
Chris, I think your point is extremely valid, and is important to be said. But I don't think this is the goal or direction of mentoring specifically for women. Given that there are underrepresented peoples, like women, in OSGeo (or IT at large), supporting a mentorship program that is based on the idea that women can be the better mentor for women is important. As you admit, there are barriers for specific groups, though totally artificial and social, they are still there and need to be addressed. By allowing a group, women in this case, to support themselves more and offer their experiences to other women, it does actually help break those barriers. I think this sort of program is really important, and would apply to any underrepresented group, such as visually-impaired, Ethiopians, Chinese, LGBT, impoverished, etc. It is about creating more meaningful mentor opportunities, not discriminating or distinguishing between specific groups. On the flip side, I do think it's a fine line. This is definitely a concern when you start to look at what resources are allocated and what the mission of organizations are. I think it important to create a mentorship program for everyone because there is always a need, even for those that are not underrepresented. And so it is important that resources reflect the idea of mentoring and creating a better community, and not specifically a certain group. -- Alan Palazzolo a...@zzolo.org On Sun, Sep 12, 2010 at 8:34 AM, Chris Puttick chris.putt...@thehumanjourney.net wrote: At terrible risk of going against the grain here, but I don't like discrimination, whatever its guise and whatever its motive. Call me idealistic, but it has been my experience that discrimination has only one outcome and that is discrimination. Me, I'm human; so far I've never worked or encountered a non-human intelligence so I cannot comment beyond humanity. But I can say I've worked with some great humans and some crap humans and some mediocre humans in a wide variety of sectors, and I observed no relationship between their greatness/crapness/mediocrity and their gender/sexual preferences/race/religion/musical tastes or even, despite my expectations, whether they or not they liked dogs. Adjustments in behaviour, organisational structures, language, special programmes et al. to favour one identifiable group over others serves only to discriminate against the others. It does nothing to resolve the real issue, which is the mistaken belief that all members of one identifiable group are inherently unable or less able to do a thing, or the similarly mistaken belief that the behaviour of one or two people from an established community towards you or your identifiable group is something you can then tar that other entire identifiable group with. In fact such affirmative action has the opposite result; it fosters discrimination by continually reinforcing the idea that one group needs help over another opposite group and, worse, reinforces the idea that these broad group distinctions are real rather than artificial constructs. It seems to me that the greatest cause of discrimination statistics is that idea that occurs when you see yourself as being part of an identifiable group and use that to guide your behaviour i.e. when you look to your groups' behaviours for guidance on what it is you might do with your life. Maybe my crazy brand of idealism is doomed to failure; maybe, for example, Baha'i followers will only ever engage in occupations that other Baha'i do, and Hindus will only ever do jobs other Hindus do. It remains however my hope (and guides how I act myself) that people will realise that these groupings, like most others, are entirely artificial when it comes to determining what you do in life, and that others will join me in that belief and act accordingly. Regards Chris - Original Message - Hi all, and sorry for cross-posting, I want to share with you what I found, surfing from link to link from a mail sent to Systers ml. I stumbled first on http://www.linuxpromagazine.com/Online/Blogs/ROSE-Blog-Rikki-s-Open-Source-Exchange/Inequality-Choices-and-Hitting-a-Wall but I felt it was not the case of OSGeo. Then I found a link about the female representation in 2010 Google Summer of Code - very encouraging: http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2010/08/sixth-annual-summer-of-code-flexes-some.html and finally a good seed for OSGeo-women: http://www.linuxpromagazine.com/Online/Blogs/ROSE-Blog-Rikki-s-Open-Source-Exchange/FOSS-Mentoring-A-tribute-to-female-mentors What about a mentoring program like Debian-women's? http://women.debian.org/mentoring/ feedback is most welcome! cheers, Anne -- http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Anne_Ghisla ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss -- Files attached to this
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Mentoring program @OSGeo[-women]
On Sun, 2010-09-12 at 11:04 +0200, Alan Palazzolo wrote: Chris, I think your point is extremely valid, and is important to be said. But I don't think this is the goal or direction of mentoring specifically for women. Given that there are underrepresented peoples, like women, in OSGeo (or IT at large), supporting a mentorship program that is based on the idea that women can be the better mentor for women is important. As you admit, there are barriers for specific groups, though totally artificial and social, they are still there and need to be addressed. By allowing a group, women in this case, to support themselves more and offer their experiences to other women, it does actually help break those barriers. I think this sort of program is really important, and would apply to any underrepresented group, such as visually-impaired, Ethiopians, Chinese, LGBT, impoverished, etc. It is about creating more meaningful mentor opportunities, not discriminating or distinguishing between specific groups. On the flip side, I do think it's a fine line. This is definitely a concern when you start to look at what resources are allocated and what the mission of organizations are. I think it important to create a mentorship program for everyone because there is always a need, even for those that are not underrepresented. And so it is important that resources reflect the idea of mentoring and creating a better community, and not specifically a certain group. Hi all, the topic is delicate, as it involves deeply personal beliefs. Good to see that it evolves smoothly :) Well said, Chris. When I wrote the mail I feared that the impression could be let women help women and get rid of the guys' monopoly on the scene. It's not the case, neither is the aim of D-W mentoring program, that is open to male mentors as well. What you said about feeling discriminated reinforces discrimination is true when the scenario remains static. Let me add that the present underrepresentation of women in OSGeo is not definitive, and the goal of the first discussions on the topic is to raise awareness, express our thoughts, maybe with wrong words. I'd be happy to see that the situation is not as bad as in other fields, but I think that simply say that women are not discriminated and let them show up when they want is expeditous. Alan, I fully agree with your answer. I don't think that having the, let's say, Greek chapter means discriminating against non-Greeks, and it aliments the isolation of Greeks. OSGeo-women has been created as a chapter, similar to local chapters. The final aim is to promote participation of women in OSGeo and, as Chris said, get to a point where we forget about the gender together with race/religion/etc.. That said, the mentoring program is not specific for women, so feel free to use the idea wherever it can be useful. cheers all, have a nice Sunday :) Anne -- Alan Palazzolo a...@zzolo.org On Sun, Sep 12, 2010 at 8:34 AM, Chris Puttick chris.putt...@thehumanjourney.net wrote: At terrible risk of going against the grain here, but I don't like discrimination, whatever its guise and whatever its motive. Call me idealistic, but it has been my experience that discrimination has only one outcome and that is discrimination. Me, I'm human; so far I've never worked or encountered a non-human intelligence so I cannot comment beyond humanity. But I can say I've worked with some great humans and some crap humans and some mediocre humans in a wide variety of sectors, and I observed no relationship between their greatness/crapness/mediocrity and their gender/sexual preferences/race/religion/musical tastes or even, despite my expectations, whether they or not they liked dogs. Adjustments in behaviour, organisational structures, language, special programmes et al. to favour one identifiable group over others serves only to discriminate against the others. It does nothing to resolve the real issue, which is the mistaken belief that all members of one identifiable group are inherently unable or less able to do a thing, or the similarly mistaken belief that the behaviour of one or two people from an established community towards you or your identifiable group is something you can then tar that other entire identifiable group with. In fact such affirmative action has the opposite result; it fosters discrimination by continually reinforcing the idea that one group needs help over another opposite group and, worse, reinforces the idea that these broad group distinctions are real rather than artificial constructs. It seems to me that the greatest cause of discrimination statistics is that idea that occurs when you see yourself as being part of an identifiable group and use that to guide your behaviour i.e. when you look to your groups' behaviours for guidance on what it is you might do with your life. Maybe my crazy brand of idealism is doomed to failure; maybe,
[OSGeo-Discuss] Where to, OSGeo?
All, Thanks for a fine FOSS4G conference again to all who organized and participated. I wrote the text below after the board f2f (http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Face_to_Face_Meeting_Barcelona_2010) to clear my head and also to perhaps give to the broader community an idea of what the board discusses and to present some opinions of mine. I wish luck for the new board in its work. Best regards, Ari Jolma Where to, OSGeo? I've seen, heard, and discussed now twice Tyler's (Tyler Mitchell, OSGeo CEO) presentation on OSGeo strategy. First in Nottingham in June and now in Barcelona. The presentation is a mind map, and it introduces the phases organizations go through as they evolve. OSGeo has clearly been a success so far with several successful conferences in a row, growing number of foundation projects, and a community that is recognized and respected. The question Tyler asks, is, where OSGeo wants to be in, say, 5 years from now, and how do we know if we have reached our goals. What I present below draws from those meetings and others and I don't claim that any of the ideas below is mine or even new in any way. Opinions are mine of course. OSGeo surely wants to live, and to live means to grow and evolve. Grow older, stronger, or bigger? Stronger, think I. OSGeo is mostly a voluntary organization, which relies on working together and openly. Sometimes this means not so efficient decision making and confusion. That's ok, but it doesn't mean that we shouldn't try to improve our institutions. For example confidentiality is sometimes an issue. Who receives the next Sol Katz award can't be discussed openly. But what if somebody comes to us and makes a proposal? I feel that it is the business of the proposer to make it public unless something else is agreed together. Board is well-defined and it has mechanisms for private conversations, but what if the issue should be taken to a committee. Committees are not always well-defined. Our openness needs to be communicated to others but delicate issues must be handled with care. OSGeo needs funds for its operations. Both growing stronger and bigger require money. Some say a lot of new support money can be found, we just need to try harder or be more skilled in asking for it. Some say our members and partners in the broad sense (subscribers to this list for example and perhaps companies) can give money on a voluntary basis. I must say I believe more in the latter (but don't dismiss the first) and I personally feel more comfortable with it. Another idea is to create a new revenue stream from events or other new products. The concept of a product is interesting, although it is business terminology. What is the product of OSGeo? And who are its clients? Currently OSGeo has, IMO, two main products: FOSS4G conference and it itself, and two main clients: the community (i.e., OSGeo itself) and donors. I point out that I don't see the clients or users of the OSGeo software projects as clients of OSGeo (unless they are or want to be a part of the community). The projects are more like clients and OSGeo provides service products to them. How much revenue should play a role when new products are considered? If OSGeo wants to grow stronger, then the new products should be planned and sold with partners, maybe OSGeo itself having only a small role (OSGeo members can have a much bigger role). This then would mean that OSGeo needs a more clear idea of what an OSGeo partner is (and who can be a partner) and what kind of contracts or memorandums to sign with them. OSGeo is, at least its core is, a foundation for FOS software. How much OSGeo should care and work for FOS data, FOS educational content, etc? IMO, the baseline is that OSGeo should, and it is already very much doing so, feel very deeply about standards-based access to data. This will also sometimes mean authenticated access to non-free data. OSGeo should also feel very deeply about FOS geospatial software having at least an equal footing in educational institutions, both in teaching and in research, and both in the sense of using software and software as a result of research. OSGeo should encourage going beyond the baseline, but that should not be in its main mission. On a train to Davos, Switzerland, Ari Jolma charter member 2006- board member 2008-2010 ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
[OSGeo-Discuss] Re: Discuss Digest, Vol 45, Issue 21
Collecting some thoughts... On 12/09/2010 17:00, discuss-requ...@lists.osgeo.org wrote: OSGeo-women has been created as a chapter, similar to local chapters. The final aim is to promote participation of women in OSGeo groupings, like most others, are entirely artificial I signed up, despite some misgivings which i outlined here: http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Talk:Women_Chapter#Thoughts_about_this_sort_of_thing In essence, That the root causes are not about women but about all of us, and not about software but about society... Where to, OSGeo? members and partners in the broad sense can give money... new revenue stream from events or other new products. How much OSGeo should care and work for FOS data, FOS education OSGeo should encourage going beyond the baseline, but that should not be in its main mission. I had a ramble at the board list on vaguely this topic: http://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/board/2010-September/003566.html In essence, cross-subsidy of time commitment with other organisations who do have a more focused mission about different related subjects (geodata and foss4g in education, or open standards and open government) love, jo -- ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Where to, OSGeo?
On 09/12/2010 05:12 PM, Ari Jolma wrote: Where to, OSGeo? I've seen, heard, and discussed now twice Tyler's (Tyler Mitchell, OSGeo CEO) presentation on OSGeo strategy. First in Nottingham in June and now in Barcelona. The presentation is a mind map, and it introduces the phases organizations go through as they evolve. OSGeo has clearly been a success so far with several successful conferences in a row, growing number of foundation projects, and a community that is recognized and respected. The question Tyler asks, is, where OSGeo wants to be in, say, 5 years from now, and how do we know if we have reached our goals. What I present below draws from those meetings and others and I don't claim that any of the ideas below is mine or even new in any way. Opinions are mine of course. OSGeo surely wants to live, and to live means to grow and evolve. Grow older, stronger, or bigger? Stronger, think I. OSGeo is mostly a voluntary organization, which relies on working together and openly. Sometimes this means not so efficient decision making and confusion. That's ok, but it doesn't mean that we shouldn't try to improve our institutions. For example confidentiality is sometimes an issue. Who receives the next Sol Katz award can't be discussed openly. But what if somebody comes to us and makes a proposal? I feel that it is the business of the proposer to make it public unless something else is agreed together. Board is well-defined and it has mechanisms for private conversations, but what if the issue should be taken to a committee. Committees are not always well-defined. Our openness needs to be communicated to others but delicate issues must be handled with care. OSGeo needs funds for its operations. Both growing stronger and bigger require money. Some say a lot of new support money can be found, we just need to try harder or be more skilled in asking for it. Some say our members and partners in the broad sense (subscribers to this list for example and perhaps companies) can give money on a voluntary basis. I must say I believe more in the latter (but don't dismiss the first) and I personally feel more comfortable with it. Another idea is to create a new revenue stream from events or other new products. The concept of a product is interesting, although it is business terminology. What is the product of OSGeo? And who are its clients? Currently OSGeo has, IMO, two main products: FOSS4G conference and it itself, and two main clients: the community (i.e., OSGeo itself) and donors. I point out that I don't see the clients or users of the OSGeo software projects as clients of OSGeo (unless they are or want to be a part of the community). The projects are more like clients and OSGeo provides service products to them. How much revenue should play a role when new products are considered? If OSGeo wants to grow stronger, then the new products should be planned and sold with partners, maybe OSGeo itself having only a small role (OSGeo members can have a much bigger role). This then would mean that OSGeo needs a more clear idea of what an OSGeo partner is (and who can be a partner) and what kind of contracts or memorandums to sign with them. OSGeo is, at least its core is, a foundation for FOS software. How much OSGeo should care and work for FOS data, FOS educational content, etc? IMO, the baseline is that OSGeo should, and it is already very much doing so, feel very deeply about standards-based access to data. This will also sometimes mean authenticated access to non-free data. OSGeo should also feel very deeply about FOS geospatial software having at least an equal footing in educational institutions, both in teaching and in research, and both in the sense of using software and software as a result of research. OSGeo should encourage going beyond the baseline, but that should not be in its main mission. On a train to Davos, Switzerland, Ari Jolma charter member 2006- board member 2008-2010 Ari, thanks for this! It feels so useful to me that I added it to the talk page of the meeting [1] to make it accessible for further editing and to maybe encourage more comments. All, our [2] task is now to build on the meeting minutes, Ari's ideas and whatever else we come up with and follow up with a constructive dialog on where we [3] are going. This is definitely not crisis management or anything like that but instead just a great chance to step back and look sideways to get a new perspective and see where we are headed. It will be good to break this down into several threads, parallel Wiki hacking and so on... Have fun, Arnulf. [1] http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Talk:Face_to_Face_Meeting_Barcelona_2010 [2] our in this context is not just the board or some elite group of officers but all who consider themselves a member of OSGeo. So basically you. [3] we in this context is not just the board or some elite group of officers but all who consider themselves to have a valid stake in where OSGeo is headed. So
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] pictures and video from FOSS4G2010
thanks Mateusz to all, please, tag it foss4g2010 too Lorenzo On Sun, Sep 12, 2010 at 1:27 PM, Mateusz Loskot mate...@loskot.net wrote: On 12/09/10 12:48, Lorenzo Becchi wrote: For those that want to contribute their pics and video, I've created a wiki page to share your links: http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/FOSS4G_2010_Media BTW, I'd like to encourage folks who use Flickr to submit their FOSS4G 2010 photos to the two groups: - general FOSS4G topics http://www.flickr.com/groups/foss4g/ - OSGeo folks, events, etc. http://www.flickr.com/groups/osgeo/ Cheers, -- Mateusz Loskot, http://mateusz.loskot.net Charter Member of OSGeo, http://osgeo.org ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Chairpersons at foss4g2010 in Barcelona
Hi Maria, thanks again for your help this is the list of abstracts at the moment: http://2010.foss4g.org/papers/ I've seen I've received other papers but I had no time yet to publish them. hope to do it asap Lorenzo 2010/9/12 maria.brove...@diiar-topo.polimi.it Dear Lluis at first I would like to thank you for the great help you have given for the success of the Academic Track at FOSS4G2010. Then I would like to ask you if you can make available the papers you received because we must start selecting the contributes to be published on Applied Geomatics (and also the other journal, but due to my involvement in Applied Geomatics I can offer myself to lead that processus). Many thanks again!! Maria Def. Quota Lluís Vicens ll...@sigte.udg.es: Dear all, We are looking for volunteers to become chairpersons to help in moderating sessions during the foss4g2010 conference in Barcelona. If some of you are interested to participate in the event as a chairperson, please, send me a reply to my personal email letting me know your availability. A lot of thanks in advance for your collaboration and support. We appreciate your help. Lluís Vicens Organizing Committee ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Chairpersons at foss4g2010 in Barcelona
Hi Lorenzo, Would it be possible to have an index file (e.g. index.pdf) for all these abstract with the numbers and title of the presentation/paper? These abstracts are relatively large file, some are 1.0 M. I think not everybody is incline to download all these abstracts just for browsing. Thanks. Noli On 9/13/10, Lorenzo Becchi lore...@ominiverdi.com wrote: Hi Maria, thanks again for your help this is the list of abstracts at the moment: http://2010.foss4g.org/papers/ I've seen I've received other papers but I had no time yet to publish them. hope to do it asap Lorenzo 2010/9/12 maria.brove...@diiar-topo.polimi.it Dear Lluis at first I would like to thank you for the great help you have given for the success of the Academic Track at FOSS4G2010. Then I would like to ask you if you can make available the papers you received because we must start selecting the contributes to be published on Applied Geomatics (and also the other journal, but due to my involvement in Applied Geomatics I can offer myself to lead that processus). Many thanks again!! Maria Def. Quota Lluís Vicens ll...@sigte.udg.es: Dear all, We are looking for volunteers to become chairpersons to help in moderating sessions during the foss4g2010 conference in Barcelona. If some of you are interested to participate in the event as a chairperson, please, send me a reply to my personal email letting me know your availability. A lot of thanks in advance for your collaboration and support. We appreciate your help. Lluís Vicens Organizing Committee ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Re: [OSGeo-Women] Post FOSS4G2010 thoughts
On Saturday 11 September 2010 9:09:33 pm Anne Ghisla wrote: On Sat, 2010-09-11 at 02:01 +0200, Mateusz Loskot wrote: Dear Ladies, During the conference, Athina shared her impression about gender mix in the board of directors. I thoroughly support Athina's opinion it would be beneficial for the foundation if some women could make it to the board. Thus, I'd like to send out some bits of encouragement to you ladies. Please, stand out! Hi Mateusz, all, [I cc discuss list to broaden the audience] thanks for encouraging the participation of women in OSGeo! Lot of thoughts and live discussions took place at the conference, and I had a chat with Helena about her perception of gender bias. In the US, she feels that women are no more a minority in the computer science field. It is not the same in other parts of the world, however, and that's something that OSGeo, as US-based foundation, has to consider. Athina and me also discussed about how women presence is uneven regarding the profile, i.e. coders, managers, sysadmins etc, so it is risky to generalise. Lots of women attended the conference, and honestly I didn't expect it, so it was a very pleasant surprise :) I'd be interested in the women percentage in workshops, presentations, guests, and so on, and of course, in direct feedback from them. That said, I join Mateusz and Athina in encouraging all women to show up :) Best regards, best regards Anne Hi All, Personally I find such conversations quite frustrating and irritating. The whole tenor of the conversation smacks of political correctness gone mad. Is there any evidence that women have been specifically targeted by OSGeo so that they can not make it to the board? Is there any evidence that women are unable to attend or contribute to OSGeo activities? No, at least from what I have seen. That fact that the author of this email, who appears to be a woman, has indicated that there was plenty of other women present at the conference seems to fly in the face of general observations that women are not some how able to participate in the organisation's activities. The fact that a woman has not made it to the board has more to do with no one with suitable experience being nominated! Not some malicious anti-woman campaign by the male-dominated OSGeo Community to exclude women! Come on people, come back to reality and focus on what OSGeo is about (if you are unsure what the foundations goals are look at the webpage http://www.osgeo.org/content/foundation/about.html). Having carefully looked at the foundation's goals I was unable to see any comment on excluding any particular group of people, gender-based or otherwise. -- Cheers Simon Simon Cropper Botanicus Australia Pty Ltd PO Box 160 Sunshine 3020 P: 03 9311 5822. M: 041 830 3437 W: http://www.botanicusaustralia.com.au ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Re: [OSGeo-Women] Post FOSS4G2010 thoughts
On 13/09/10 02:41, Simon Cropper wrote: On Saturday 11 September 2010 9:09:33 pm Anne Ghisla wrote: On Sat, 2010-09-11 at 02:01 +0200, Mateusz Loskot wrote: Dear Ladies, During the conference, Athina shared her impression about gender mix in the board of directors. I thoroughly support Athina's opinion it would be beneficial for the foundation if some women could make it to the board. Thus, I'd like to send out some bits of encouragement to you ladies. Please, stand out! Hi Mateusz, all, [I cc discuss list to broaden the audience] thanks for encouraging the participation of women in OSGeo! Lot of thoughts and live discussions took place at the conference, and I had a chat with Helena about her perception of gender bias. In the US, she feels that women are no more a minority in the computer science field. It is not the same in other parts of the world, however, and that's something that OSGeo, as US-based foundation, has to consider. Athina and me also discussed about how women presence is uneven regarding the profile, i.e. coders, managers, sysadmins etc, so it is risky to generalise. Lots of women attended the conference, and honestly I didn't expect it, so it was a very pleasant surprise :) I'd be interested in the women percentage in workshops, presentations, guests, and so on, and of course, in direct feedback from them. That said, I join Mateusz and Athina in encouraging all women to show up :) Best regards, best regards Anne Hi All, Personally I find such conversations quite frustrating and irritating. The whole tenor of the conversation smacks of political correctness gone mad. Is there any evidence that women have been specifically targeted by OSGeo so that they can not make it to the board? Is there any evidence that women are unable to attend or contribute to OSGeo activities? No, at least from what I have seen. Simon, You clearly haven't understood my post which was dedicated to women and trying to encourage them to stand out a bit more. Best regards, -- Mateusz Loskot, http://mateusz.loskot.net Charter Member of OSGeo, http://osgeo.org ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Re: [OSGeo-Women] Post FOSS4G2010 thoughts
On Monday 13 September 2010 10:46:27 am Mateusz Loskot wrote: You clearly haven't understood my post which was dedicated to women and trying to encourage them to stand out a bit more. Hello Mateusz, I don't think I misunderstood your email at least the tenor of your email. Your response also reflects this tenor. You response states my post which was dedicated to women. Your email was on OSGeo Discuss list. Therefore, I presumed then I was allowed to participate in the discussion. Hence the inheritantly flawed problem with singling any group out based on gender, race or religion. I am sorry I don't seem to get it but in my mind I do not distinguish or care about your gender and have trouble understanding why you wish to politicise a group dedicated to Open Source GIS. Battles about perceived impressions of inequality should be fought elsewhere. -- Cheers Simon Simon Cropper Botanicus Australia Pty Ltd PO Box 160 Sunshine 3020 P: 03 9311 5822. M: 041 830 3437 W: http://www.botanicusaustralia.com.au ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Re: [OSGeo-Women] Post FOSS4G2010 thoughts
On 13/09/10 03:05, Simon Cropper wrote: I am sorry I (...) have trouble understanding why you wish to politicise a group dedicated to Open Source GIS. Please, let me to repeat, you have misunderstood my message. Moreover, you're getting at something I have not said or suggested. Best regards, -- Mateusz Loskot, http://mateusz.loskot.net Charter Member of OSGeo, http://osgeo.org ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
