Re: Site Redesign (was: Objective-C 2.0 and other new features in Leopard)
Jesse, did you get a chance to check my post to the webmasters' ML? I summarized what we've talked about in here, and added some things of my own: http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/gnustep-webmasters/2007-11/msg4.html Stefan ___ Discuss-gnustep mailing list Discuss-gnustep@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss-gnustep
Re: Site Redesign (was: Objective-C 2.0 and other new features in Leopard)
Hi, I think a site restructuring good. The current site makes thigns difficult, although it improved a little over the time. Your proposal sounds roughly pretty good. I'd not change the design too much though, I got accustomed to the current design, I don't rememebr who did it, but it is fine. Riccardo On 2007-11-11 21:20:40 +0100 Jesse Ross [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here is my preliminary design: http://jesseross.com/clients/gnustep/site/01.png It uses the following site structure: Homegnustep.org - Get Started /start (overview, downloads, installation) - Documentation /documentation (wiki-based docs) - News /news (planet-based) - Status/status (CIA feed) - Applications /applications (list of apps built with GS) - Support /support (contact, bug submission) ___ Discuss-gnustep mailing list Discuss-gnustep@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss-gnustep
Re: Site Redesign (was: Objective-C 2.0 and other new features in Leopard)
FYI, I moved this conversation and added a summer to [EMAIL PROTECTED]: http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/gnustep-webmasters/2007-11/msg4.html (I think, at the time I wrote this it still hadn't been updated, check http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/gnustep-webmasters/2007-11/threads.html if it's not on the above link). Stefan ___ Discuss-gnustep mailing list Discuss-gnustep@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss-gnustep
Re: Site Redesign (was: Objective-C 2.0 and other new features in Leopard)
I'd not change the design too much though, I got accustomed to the current design, I don't rememebr who did it, but it is fine. This is the new design, in case you missed the link: http://jesseross.com/clients/gnustep/site/02.png Response has been positive overall, so that is what I am implementing. I will likely add additional sidebar content, such as the suggested How to Contribute, but otherwise, it will look basically like that mockup. J. ___ Discuss-gnustep mailing list Discuss-gnustep@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss-gnustep
Re: Site Redesign (was: Objective-C 2.0 and other new features in Leopard)
Jesse Ross wrote: I guess I didn't explain that point too well. What I was trying to say is that image size detracts from the other contents on the page. I agree that we should have GNUstep images on the homepage, just not that big. When reading the content you had on that mock-up (I'm just curious that way) my eyes couldn't help creeping to that image every few seconds, and, in my opinion, this shouldn't happen. The emphasize should be on the description, news, and possibly how to contribute part of the page. Ah, good point. It's probably worth tweaking then. Updated: http://jesseross.com/clients/gnustep/site/02.png I am impressed with what you came up that quickly. And even more about the discussion this is causing. Great! What I am missing on these web pages are the links for developers. OK, this is very egoistic, but this was one of the few reasons for me to check out the GNUstep page from time to time, it was a hub for different development links. We surely can improve on that :-) And I really prefer the old icon. I know I am very conservative, sorry :-) Fred ___ Discuss-gnustep mailing list Discuss-gnustep@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss-gnustep
Re: Site Redesign (was: Objective-C 2.0 and other new features in Leopard)
What I am missing on these web pages are the links for developers. OK, this is very egoistic, but this was one of the few reasons for me to check out the GNUstep page from time to time, it was a hub for different development links. We surely can improve on that :-) What type of developers links are you looking for? I would assume most of the type of stuff you would want would be under either Get Started or Documentation, but let me know if something is absent. J. ___ Discuss-gnustep mailing list Discuss-gnustep@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss-gnustep
Re: Site Redesign (was: Objective-C 2.0 and other new features in Leopard)
Jesse Ross wrote: What I am missing on these web pages are the links for developers. OK, this is very egoistic, but this was one of the few reasons for me to check out the GNUstep page from time to time, it was a hub for different development links. We surely can improve on that :-) What type of developers links are you looking for? I would assume most of the type of stuff you would want would be under either Get Started or Documentation, but let me know if something is absent. I am not asking for much, I have been a GNUstep developer for too long already. What I want o find there is about the same amount of information already at. http://www.gnustep.org/developers/ GNUstep currently is mostly for developers and we should pay attention to that. As soon as we have more users, us developers will have to take a step back. Fred ___ Discuss-gnustep mailing list Discuss-gnustep@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss-gnustep
Re: Site Redesign (was: Objective-C 2.0 and other new features in Leopard)
I am not asking for much, I have been a GNUstep developer for too long already. What I want o find there is about the same amount of information already at. http://www.gnustep.org/developers/ GNUstep currently is mostly for developers and we should pay attention to that. As soon as we have more users, us developers will have to take a step back. Yep -- the site will still very much have a developer focus. No reason to be concerned :) J. ___ Discuss-gnustep mailing list Discuss-gnustep@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss-gnustep
Site Redesign (was: Objective-C 2.0 and other new features in Leopard)
I'm interested in coming up with a new site architecture and design. I'll send some preliminary ideas to the mailing list in a few hours. Great!!! Here is my preliminary design: http://jesseross.com/clients/gnustep/site/01.png It uses the following site structure: Homegnustep.org - Get Started /start (overview, downloads, installation) - Documentation /documentation (wiki-based docs) - News /news (planet-based) - Status/status (CIA feed) - Applications /applications (list of apps built with GS) - Support /support (contact, bug submission) The home page has: - The 5 most recent news posts from the News page - The most recent commit via CIA - A site-wide search - A link to screenshots of apps - Links to upcoming events (FOSDEM, AlpenStep) - Whatever else makes sense in the right sidebar! The Get Started page has: - An overview of GNUstep and its history - A link to download the sources - A link to the installation process - Links various tutorials (learning Obj-C, building your first app, etc) The Documentation page utilizes the current wiki, which will need major work to get the APIs fleshed out. The News page is an installation of Planet, creating a unified GNUstep blog. The Status page has the CIA.vc stats, to show people that progress is still underway. The Applications page has: - A list of applications and where to download them - Screenshots for many different applications (perhaps pulling from a GNUstep-specific Flickr account) The Support page has: - Information about the mailing lists and how to subscribe - Bug Report details - Donation links I think that covers pretty much everything we have on the site currently, unifying a few elements in order to make things easier to locate and reinforcing the we're still alive message. The slogan in the header is subject to change, but I felt that was the strongest one so far. Feedback and criticism on either the design or the site restructure is welcomed! J. ___ Discuss-gnustep mailing list Discuss-gnustep@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss-gnustep
Re: Site Redesign (was: Objective-C 2.0 and other new features in Leopard)
Jesse, That's exciting. It looks really good. Already it's much livelier and more engaging than the existing site and it does send the message that we're still here. GJC -- Gregory Casamento -- OLC, Inc # GNUstep Chief Maintainer - Original Message From: Jesse Ross [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2007 3:20:40 PM Subject: Site Redesign (was: Objective-C 2.0 and other new features in Leopard) I'm interested in coming up with a new site architecture and design. I'll send some preliminary ideas to the mailing list in a few hours. Great!!! Here is my preliminary design: http://jesseross.com/clients/gnustep/site/01.png It uses the following site structure: Homegnustep.org - Get Started /start (overview, downloads, installation) - Documentation/documentation (wiki-based docs) - News /news (planet-based) - Status /status (CIA feed) - Applications /applications (list of apps built with GS) - Support /support (contact, bug submission) The home page has: - The 5 most recent news posts from the News page - The most recent commit via CIA - A site-wide search - A link to screenshots of apps - Links to upcoming events (FOSDEM, AlpenStep) - Whatever else makes sense in the right sidebar! The Get Started page has: - An overview of GNUstep and its history - A link to download the sources - A link to the installation process - Links various tutorials (learning Obj-C, building your first app, etc) The Documentation page utilizes the current wiki, which will need major work to get the APIs fleshed out. The News page is an installation of Planet, creating a unified GNUstep blog. The Status page has the CIA.vc stats, to show people that progress is still underway. The Applications page has: - A list of applications and where to download them - Screenshots for many different applications (perhaps pulling from a GNUstep-specific Flickr account) The Support page has: - Information about the mailing lists and how to subscribe - Bug Report details - Donation links I think that covers pretty much everything we have on the site currently, unifying a few elements in order to make things easier to locate and reinforcing the we're still alive message. The slogan in the header is subject to change, but I felt that was the strongest one so far. Feedback and criticism on either the design or the site restructure is welcomed! J. -Inline Attachment Follows- ___ Discuss-gnustep mailing list Discuss-gnustep@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss-gnustep ___ Discuss-gnustep mailing list Discuss-gnustep@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss-gnustep
Fwd: Site Redesign (was: Objective-C 2.0 and other new features in Leopard)
Forgot to CC the list... -- Forwarded message -- From: Stefan Bidigaray [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Nov 11, 2007 4:14 PM Subject: Re: Site Redesign (was: Objective-C 2.0 and other new features in Leopard) To: Gregory John Casamento [EMAIL PROTECTED] I like it, except for those pictures in the right, they are a little too in your face. I do think we should have a screenshot on the homepage, but I think it should be something a little more subtle than that (and by that I mean smaller sized, like the way we currently have it but not emphasizing the horizontal menus). I think the bulk of the screenshots should be included in the Applications page. I took a quick look at the different GUI toolkit websites (GTK+, QT, FLTK, Fox and wxWidgets) and the consensus seems to be as little in-your-face as possible, by providing nothing but the most needed info on the homepage. For reference's sake, here are the their websites: www.gtk.org www.trolltech.com/products/qt www.fltk.org www.fox-toolkit.org www.wxwidgets.org With that in mind, the GTK+ homepage does have something I think we should add to the home page, a brief description of how to contribute. Seeing as the project is in need of more developers, I think we should make it blatantly obvious what you can do to help. Stefan ___ Discuss-gnustep mailing list Discuss-gnustep@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss-gnustep
Re: Site Redesign (was: Objective-C 2.0 and other new features in Leopard)
I like it, except for those pictures in the right, they are a little too in your face. I do think we should have a screenshot on the homepage, but I think it should be something a little more subtle than that (and by that I mean smaller sized, like the way we currently have it but not emphasizing the horizontal menus). I think the bulk of the screenshots should be included in the Applications page. I don't know about everyone else, but when I first visit a site for an application, toolkit, or even programming language, I check out the screenshots. It helps me to better understand what the project is all about by being able to see how I might interact with it. Putting access to those images in a readily visible location, and making sure that that homepage image gets updated regularly (weekly, probably), does a couple positive things for us: 1) It inspires the visitors to our site by showing them what can be built with GNUstep 2) It shows that we take pride in the visual design of our software 3) It rewards those GNUstep developers who make cool and intuitive UIs 4) It pushes us to keep building new apps (so that we don't grow stale by having 40 images of code editors on there ;) ) J. ___ Discuss-gnustep mailing list Discuss-gnustep@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss-gnustep
Re: Site Redesign (was: Objective-C 2.0 and other new features in Leopard)
Homegnustep.org - Get Started /start (overview, downloads, installation) - Documentation /documentation (wiki-based docs) - News /news (planet-based) - Status/status (CIA feed) - Applications /applications (list of apps built with GS) - Support /support (contact, bug submission) Here should IMHO be a link called Downloads (/downloads). This should directly open a new page with: Precompiled Binaries - ... ISO Images - ... Packages - Debian - Ubuntu - ... Access source repositories - SVN trunk - SVN stable etc. Nikolaus ___ Discuss-gnustep mailing list Discuss-gnustep@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss-gnustep
Re: Site Redesign (was: Objective-C 2.0 and other new features in Leopard)
Homegnustep.org - Get Started /start (overview, downloads, installation) - Documentation /documentation (wiki-based docs) - News /news (planet-based) - Status/status (CIA feed) - Applications /applications (list of apps built with GS) - Support /support (contact, bug submission) Here should IMHO be a link called Downloads (/downloads). This should directly open a new page with: Precompiled Binaries - ... ISO Images - ... Packages - Debian - Ubuntu - ... Access source repositories - SVN trunk - SVN stable I thought about that, but it seemed better suited as a subsection of the Get Started page. You obviously can't start unless you've downloaded the sources. Additionally, most users will need an installation guide, and a few next steps documents (tutorials, examples, etc), and seeing as how all of that is related, it seemed better to put it in a single category called Get Started rather than cluttering the top-level nav with all of those sections. So, expanding my structure, you end up with: Homegnustep.org - Get Started /start (overview, downloads, installation) - Overview/overview - Downloads /downloads - Installation/install - Tutorials /tutorials - Documentation /documentation (wiki-based docs) - News /news (planet-based) - Status/status (CIA feed) - Applications /applications (list of apps built with GS) - Support /support (contact, bug submission) J. ___ Discuss-gnustep mailing list Discuss-gnustep@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss-gnustep
Re: Site Redesign (was: Objective-C 2.0 and other new features in Leopard)
On Nov 11, 2007 4:34 PM, Jesse Ross [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't know about everyone else, but when I first visit a site for an application, toolkit, or even programming language, I check out the screenshots. It helps me to better understand what the project is all about by being able to see how I might interact with it. Putting access to those images in a readily visible location, and making sure that that homepage image gets updated regularly (weekly, probably), does a couple positive things for us: I guess I didn't explain that point too well. What I was trying to say is that image size detracts from the other contents on the page. I agree that we should have GNUstep images on the homepage, just not that big. When reading the content you had on that mock-up (I'm just curious that way) my eyes couldn't help creeping to that image every few seconds, and, in my opinion, this shouldn't happen. The emphasize should be on the description, news, and possibly how to contribute part of the page. I'm like you though, the first I do when checking a website is take a look at the screenshots, but after I already know how something looks I rarely go back to it next time I visit the site. So, assuming a visit a project 10 times, I would only look at the screenshots 10% of the time I visit the site (and that would be the first time), the other 90% of the times I go back, all I really want to know is what's going on with the project. 1) It inspires the visitors to our site by showing them what can be built with GNUstep 2) It shows that we take pride in the visual design of our software 3) It rewards those GNUstep developers who make cool and intuitive UIs 4) It pushes us to keep building new apps (so that we don't grow stale by having 40 images of code editors on there ;) ) J. ___ Discuss-gnustep mailing list Discuss-gnustep@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss-gnustep ___ Discuss-gnustep mailing list Discuss-gnustep@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss-gnustep
Re: Site Redesign (was: Objective-C 2.0 and other new features in Leopard)
I guess I didn't explain that point too well. What I was trying to say is that image size detracts from the other contents on the page. I agree that we should have GNUstep images on the homepage, just not that big. When reading the content you had on that mock- up (I'm just curious that way) my eyes couldn't help creeping to that image every few seconds, and, in my opinion, this shouldn't happen. The emphasize should be on the description, news, and possibly how to contribute part of the page. Ah, good point. It's probably worth tweaking then. I'm like you though, the first I do when checking a website is take a look at the screenshots, but after I already know how something looks I rarely go back to it next time I visit the site. So, assuming a visit a project 10 times, I would only look at the screenshots 10% of the time I visit the site (and that would be the first time), the other 90% of the times I go back, all I really want to know is what's going on with the project. True... but if the image on the home page changes every week, then you may end up visiting the screenshots page more often than that ;) Also, now that we're discussing the site redesign, what needs to happen next? Who currently maintains the site? Who is making the final decision about what gets included on the site (particularly the home page)? What server-side software do we have available (PHP would be nice... Python is needed for Planet)? When do we want to try to get this launched? Obviously I'd like to be involved, but it would be nice to have a team of others managing things like updating the API docs, compiling a list of applications and screenshots, and providing text for the pages. J. ___ Discuss-gnustep mailing list Discuss-gnustep@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss-gnustep
Re: Site Redesign (was: Objective-C 2.0 and other new features in Leopard)
I guess I didn't explain that point too well. What I was trying to say is that image size detracts from the other contents on the page. I agree that we should have GNUstep images on the homepage, just not that big. When reading the content you had on that mock- up (I'm just curious that way) my eyes couldn't help creeping to that image every few seconds, and, in my opinion, this shouldn't happen. The emphasize should be on the description, news, and possibly how to contribute part of the page. Ah, good point. It's probably worth tweaking then. Updated: http://jesseross.com/clients/gnustep/site/02.png J. ___ Discuss-gnustep mailing list Discuss-gnustep@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss-gnustep
Re: Site Redesign (was: Objective-C 2.0 and other new features in Leopard)
fantastic. On Nov 11, 2007 5:29 PM, Jesse Ross [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I guess I didn't explain that point too well. What I was trying to say is that image size detracts from the other contents on the page. I agree that we should have GNUstep images on the homepage, just not that big. When reading the content you had on that mock- up (I'm just curious that way) my eyes couldn't help creeping to that image every few seconds, and, in my opinion, this shouldn't happen. The emphasize should be on the description, news, and possibly how to contribute part of the page. Ah, good point. It's probably worth tweaking then. Updated: http://jesseross.com/clients/gnustep/site/02.png J. ___ Discuss-gnustep mailing list Discuss-gnustep@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss-gnustep ___ Discuss-gnustep mailing list Discuss-gnustep@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss-gnustep
Re: Site Redesign (was: Objective-C 2.0 and other new features in Leopard)
A link to the wiki on the top menubar would be useful too. Another useful addition would be a planet like feed aggregator. Both are actually already in there :) The wiki will live under Documentation, and News is the home for the Planet. J. ___ Discuss-gnustep mailing list Discuss-gnustep@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss-gnustep
