Re: [Emc-users] Affordable, used lathes Re: Question on DM860 stepper drivers

[Jon Elson]

On 04/23/2016 06:33 PM, andy pugh wrote:
> On 24 April 2016 at 00:23, Jon Elson  wrote:
>> Sheldon made a range of machines.  The only one that is a
>> "toolroom precision" grade is the R-series.
> Intersting, I can't find them at http://www.lathes.co.uk/sheldon/index.html
>
The Sheldon R-series was their high-end lathe, to compete 
with LeBlond and other toolroom lathes.
The early R-series was fairly advanced, then they re-did it 
in about 1968.  After that, they had an 80-speed QC gearbox, 
and added a feed shaft parallel to the threading leadscrew.  
Feeds are via clutches, so that an overload won't break gears.

The main gearbox is in the pedestal, so the only gears in 
the headstock are the backgear.

The headstock casting is about the size of a smallblock V8, 
and similar weight.  Even the tailstock is too heavy for me 
to pick up without separating the upper and lower half.  The 
cross feed dial is about 4" diameter.
There are a bunch of other construction details that show 
how hard they thought about every single bit of the lathe.

See http://pico-systems.com/sheldon.html  for the saga of 
getting the lathe moved inside, and some pics of it.

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] Affordable, used lathes Re: Question on DM860 stepper drivers

[Peter Homann]

It's a little on the small side. Do you know of a larger one?

Cheers,

Peter

On 23-Apr-16 7:54 PM, andy pugh wrote:
> On 23 April 2016 at 05:50, Gregg Eshelman  wrote:
>> He needed a lathe long enough to handle the axle shafts.
>
> This one is quite cheap at the moment.
> https://www.apexauctions.co.uk/auction/itemDetails/197658
>

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Re: [Emc-users] Affordable, used lathes Re: Question on DM860 stepper drivers

[andy pugh]

On 24 April 2016 at 00:23, Jon Elson  wrote:
> Sheldon made a range of machines.  The only one that is a
> "toolroom precision" grade is the R-series.

Intersting, I can't find them at http://www.lathes.co.uk/sheldon/index.html

-- 
atp
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designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

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Re: [Emc-users] Affordable, used lathes Re: Question on DM860 stepper drivers

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 23 April 2016 19:23:52 Jon Elson wrote:

> On 04/23/2016 01:38 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > I looked at a Sheldon on the HGR site, $1799 IIRC, but it was a
> > couple feet longer and about a ton heavier. Weight concerns me as my
> > garage floor is about 7 to 8" of poured 5000 lb concrete, but not a
> > rebar in the mix. And its already full of hairline cracks.
>
> Sheldon made a range of machines.  The only one that is a
> "toolroom precision" grade is the R-series.
> I have an R-15.  80 threading feeds, feed by driveshaft
> separate from leadscrew.  It has clutches for carriage and
> crossfeed that can be adjusted to slip, so you don't break
> things if you have a crash.
> Spindle is D1-6, with a 2.25" through hole.  The standard
> model will do 40 - 1250 RPM, the high speed model (which I
> don't have) will go up to 2500 RPM!  Yikes!
>
> > Thanks Jon.  If I do buy a Sheldon, I may pester you for hints &
> > tricks. :)
>
> There is a newsgroup, and one of the family members (John
> Knox) is there, and he has access to a wealth of info.  If
> you need a standard part that was in there, he can get the
> maker and their part number.  I needed to replace some seals
> in the apron, and with his info, I was able to order them
> locally very easily.
>
> I only know the R-series Sheldons.
>
> Jon

Thanks Jon, I'll mentally limit my Sheldon search for models starting 
with an R.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] Affordable, used lathes Re: Question on DM860 stepper drivers

[Jon Elson]

On 04/23/2016 01:38 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
>
> I looked at a Sheldon on the HGR site, $1799 IIRC, but it was a couple
> feet longer and about a ton heavier. Weight concerns me as my garage
> floor is about 7 to 8" of poured 5000 lb concrete, but not a rebar in
> the mix. And its already full of hairline cracks.
Sheldon made a range of machines.  The only one that is a 
"toolroom precision" grade is the R-series.
I have an R-15.  80 threading feeds, feed by driveshaft 
separate from leadscrew.  It has clutches for carriage and 
crossfeed that can be adjusted to slip, so you don't break 
things if you have a crash.
Spindle is D1-6, with a 2.25" through hole.  The standard 
model will do 40 - 1250 RPM, the high speed model (which I 
don't have) will go up to 2500 RPM!  Yikes!
>
>
> Thanks Jon.  If I do buy a Sheldon, I may pester you for hints &
> tricks. :)
>
There is a newsgroup, and one of the family members (John 
Knox) is there, and he has access to a wealth of info.  If 
you need a standard part that was in there, he can get the 
maker and their part number.  I needed to replace some seals 
in the apron, and with his info, I was able to order them 
locally very easily.

I only know the R-series Sheldons.

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] Affordable, used lathes Re: Question on DM860 stepper drivers

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 23 April 2016 11:46:43 Jon Elson wrote:

> On 04/22/2016 11:50 PM, Gregg Eshelman wrote:
> > So don't buy any LeBlond or Monarch with broken or missing parts.
> > Except perhaps a 10EE. There's plenty of those laying about in all
> > kinds of  sub-functional condition.
>
> This applies to ALL older machines!  There are a few
> machines where a huge supply of spares is constantly
> floating around.  These are such as the Atlas/Craftsman
> lathes and the Bridgeport vertical mills.  There are
> probably a few others.  There are still parts being produced
> for Atlas (Clausing Service Center) and Bridgeport (now
> Hardinge).
>
> I bought a Sheldon lathe (Really TOP of the line design,
> definitely LeBlond or Monarch level, possibly even better).
> But, going into it, I knew that parts would not be available
> at any reasonable price.  When I got it, I discovered a
> broken gear tooth in the QC box, and was amazed to find that
> a replacement gear actually COULD be obtained.  But,
> DeVlieg-Bullard II (the owner of the rights to Sheldon)
> wanted about $450 to make the gear for me.
>
> But, most of these big, old, production machines are very
> well made, and other than a severe crash, can be kept
> running for quite some time.
>
> Jon
>
I looked at a Sheldon on the HGR site, $1799 IIRC, but it was a couple 
feet longer and about a ton heavier. Weight concerns me as my garage 
floor is about 7 to 8" of poured 5000 lb concrete, but not a rebar in 
the mix. And its already full of hairline cracks.

It did look to be fairly complete, even had a QC tool holder mounted in 
the pix.  But to get it here would have needed riggers and a freight 
line van to get it to my driveway.  And it would be quite the fun to get 
more than a 20 foot straight box van in AND back out of here. That would 
likely add at least another thou to the $ total.

But I'll keep the site in mind in case something shows up that I can haul 
& handle with a 2000 lb rated cherry picker.  That looks to be about a 
days drive each way for me.

I discovered something else last night, hoss's (Daniel Kemp of 
hossmachine.xxx) locale is right here in WV, way up in the panhandle, 
perhaps 100 miles NW of Pittsburgh.  He has some cute stuff as I saw on 
one of his BF20/G0704's, what can only be a worm drive head rotation to 
tilt the head left or right.  But I didn't find a video on that on his 
site.  Looked to be maybe 5/8" thick and would be handier than bottled 
beer for my machine.  Hand cranked worm, but I might figure out how to 
motorize it if I could unlock it easily. Currently on mine, thats 4 big 
bolts to loosen and quite some contortions to set it dead level for 
horizontal rigid tapping (which worked great BTW).

Thanks Jon.  If I do buy a Sheldon, I may pester you for hints & 
tricks. :)

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] Affordable, used lathes Re: Question on DM860 stepper drivers

[Jon Elson]

On 04/22/2016 11:50 PM, Gregg Eshelman wrote:
> So don't buy any LeBlond or Monarch with broken or missing parts. Except 
> perhaps a 10EE. There's plenty of those laying about in all kinds of  
> sub-functional condition.
>   
>
This applies to ALL older machines!  There are a few 
machines where a huge supply of spares is constantly 
floating around.  These are such as the Atlas/Craftsman 
lathes and the Bridgeport vertical mills.  There are 
probably a few others.  There are still parts being produced 
for Atlas (Clausing Service Center) and Bridgeport (now 
Hardinge).

I bought a Sheldon lathe (Really TOP of the line design, 
definitely LeBlond or Monarch level, possibly even better).
But, going into it, I knew that parts would not be available 
at any reasonable price.  When I got it, I discovered a 
broken gear tooth in the QC box, and was amazed to find that 
a replacement gear actually COULD be obtained.  But, 
DeVlieg-Bullard II (the owner of the rights to Sheldon) 
wanted about $450 to make the gear for me.

But, most of these big, old, production machines are very 
well made, and other than a severe crash, can be kept 
running for quite some time.

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] Affordable, used lathes Re: Question on DM860 stepper drivers

[andy pugh]

On 23 April 2016 at 05:50, Gregg Eshelman  wrote:
> He needed a lathe long enough to handle the axle shafts.

This one is quite cheap at the moment.
https://www.apexauctions.co.uk/auction/itemDetails/197658

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

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Re: [Emc-users] Affordable, used lathes Re: Question on DM860 stepper drivers

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 23 April 2016 00:50:21 Gregg Eshelman wrote:

> I'll second on Craigslist. I've found, and sold, several lathes on
> there. Check first in the list that's closest to you. You can search
> the whole USA with adhuntr.com My Monarch 12CK was saved from a
> scrapyard for $400, then I had to spend more than that getting a
> tailstock and a couple of handles from a guy with a 12 that had a
> broken gearbox. He'd had it on eBay for ages, trying to get $3500. I
> finally convinced him nobody was going to buy a broken Monarch, his
> best bet would be parting it out. He finally agreed, I got dibs on
> what I needed and in a couple of weeks there wasn't much left except
> the bed. Same story on a 17x78 LeBlond 'trainer'. I got it cheap at an
> auction, my first LeBlond. I figured there were many thousands of them
> made in the 40's parts should be plentiful. WRONG! Finally located a
> shorter on on eBay, bet totally worn out. $3500. Seller even put on
> pictures showing the massive amount of bed wear. Finally realizing
> that nobody was buying a LeBlond with a shot bed and saddle, and
> someone else desperately wanted the headstock, I got all the parts I
> was missing - then sold the complete and working lathe to a guy who
> works on Caterpillars. He needed a lathe long enough to handle the
> axle shafts. So don't buy any LeBlond or Monarch with broken or
> missing parts. Except perhaps a 10EE. There's plenty of those laying
> about in all kinds of  sub-functional condition.

Confirmed by looking at a lot of pix, Todd. Its all too often obviously a 
half parted out machine in many cases, and they still want $3 a lb for 
what's essentially scrap metal to be tossed in the furnace for tomorrows 
pour.  Discourageing is the effect on me.  

>   From: Todd Zuercher 
>  To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
>  Sent: Friday, April 22, 2016 5:49 AM
>  Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Question on DM860 stepper drivers
>
> Air cylinders can be had for much cheaper off ebay.  The Mcmaster link
> was more for showing what's avalible.
>
> I'd be concerned about a bycycle pumps seals holding up over time,
> especially if pressures exceed 70-80 psi.
>
> Cheap used iron often can be found easier off of Craigslist than
> fleabay.
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Gene Heskett" 
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Sent: Friday, April 22, 2016 5:32:46 AM
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Question on DM860 stepper drivers
>
> On Thursday 21 April 2016 23:29:21 Todd Zuercher wrote:
> > What length stroke do you need? McMasterCarr has 3/4" cylinders in
> > lengths up to 24".  (1-1/16" up to 36")
> > http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-air-cylinders/=12348ld
>
> Those prices aren't friendly enough though. I can rig springs for half
> that.  But its looking like I'll have to make the springs anchors on
> the mill as I've pretty much had it with this 7x12, the rear gib
> strips vibrated loose yesterday and chomped up about $30 worth of
> carbide inserts from the chatter just making one of the 4 I needed
> last afternoon.
>
> I am in the market for a bigger, more iron in its ass lathe, but
> fleabay's lathe selections are in a high vacuum suckage state when I
> searched last night.  One boxter? and one Monarch about covered what
> was available for under $1500.  From the pix, neither had been taken
> care of and were missing parts. Quite a bit of new stuff, all priced
> higher than I could get it from Bolton or grizzly.  Something in the
> 10x30 range I can convert might be attractive. Both of those 2 are
> within a long days drive from me, but neither adv listed the weight.
> And I know monarchs are at least capable of putting my GMC down on its
> snubbers.
>
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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[Emc-users] Affordable, used lathes Re: Question on DM860 stepper drivers

[Gregg Eshelman]

I'll second on Craigslist. I've found, and sold, several lathes on there. Check 
first in the list that's closest to you. You can search the whole USA with 
adhuntr.com
My Monarch 12CK was saved from a scrapyard for $400, then I had to spend more 
than that getting a tailstock and a couple of handles from a guy with a 12 that 
had a broken gearbox. He'd had it on eBay for ages, trying to get $3500. I 
finally convinced him nobody was going to buy a broken Monarch, his best bet 
would be parting it out. He finally agreed, I got dibs on what I needed and in 
a couple of weeks there wasn't much left except the bed.
Same story on a 17x78 LeBlond 'trainer'. I got it cheap at an auction, my first 
LeBlond. I figured there were many thousands of them made in the 40's parts 
should be plentiful. WRONG! Finally located a shorter on on eBay, bet totally 
worn out. $3500. Seller even put on pictures showing the massive amount of bed 
wear. Finally realizing that nobody was buying a LeBlond with a shot bed and 
saddle, and someone else desperately wanted the headstock, I got all the parts 
I was missing - then sold the complete and working lathe to a guy who works on 
Caterpillars. He needed a lathe long enough to handle the axle shafts.
So don't buy any LeBlond or Monarch with broken or missing parts. Except 
perhaps a 10EE. There's plenty of those laying about in all kinds of  
sub-functional condition.
 
  From: Todd Zuercher 
 To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)  
 Sent: Friday, April 22, 2016 5:49 AM
 Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Question on DM860 stepper drivers
   
Air cylinders can be had for much cheaper off ebay.  The Mcmaster link was more 
for showing what's avalible.

I'd be concerned about a bycycle pumps seals holding up over time, especially 
if pressures exceed 70-80 psi.

Cheap used iron often can be found easier off of Craigslist than fleabay.

- Original Message -
From: "Gene Heskett" 
To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Sent: Friday, April 22, 2016 5:32:46 AM
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Question on DM860 stepper drivers

On Thursday 21 April 2016 23:29:21 Todd Zuercher wrote:

> What length stroke do you need? McMasterCarr has 3/4" cylinders in
> lengths up to 24".  (1-1/16" up to 36")
> http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-air-cylinders/=12348ld

Those prices aren't friendly enough though. I can rig springs for half 
that.  But its looking like I'll have to make the springs anchors on the 
mill as I've pretty much had it with this 7x12, the rear gib strips 
vibrated loose yesterday and chomped up about $30 worth of carbide 
inserts from the chatter just making one of the 4 I needed last 
afternoon.

I am in the market for a bigger, more iron in its ass lathe, but 
fleabay's lathe selections are in a high vacuum suckage state when I 
searched last night.  One boxter? and one Monarch about covered what was 
available for under $1500.  From the pix, neither had been taken care of 
and were missing parts. Quite a bit of new stuff, all priced higher than 
I could get it from Bolton or grizzly.  Something in the 10x30 range I 
can convert might be attractive. Both of those 2 are within a long days 
drive from me, but neither adv listed the weight. And I know monarchs 
are at least capable of putting my GMC down on its snubbers.
   
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