Re: boot problem after freebsd-update from 9.1-RC2 to 9.1-RC3

[Warren Block]

On Tue, 20 Nov 2012, free...@johnea.net wrote:


On 2012-11-20 14:28, Gary Aitken wrote:

On 11/20/12 13:34, free...@johnea.net wrote:



freebsd-update upgrade -r 9.1-RC3

...

"Not UFS"  "No ada0" "No boot"




Seems like it isn't supposed to work for 9.1-RC2



I previously used binary update to migrate from 9.0 to 9.1, via:

freebsd-update upgrade -r 9.1-RC1
freebsd-update install
reboot
freebsd-update install
reboot

I'm starting to think having the swap partition in gm0s1a and the booting UFS 
partition in ada0s1b is the problem:
http://forums.freebsd.org/showthread.php?t=31954

The "Not UFS" error comes immediately on boot.

If I boot from rescue media, I can start the gmirror, mount it and chroot into 
it.

The whole install seems fine except for the first stage boot loader finding the 
UFS partition.

A handy bootloader config trick would be greatly appreciated!


boot(8) says

  The automatic boot will attempt to load /boot/loader from partition
  `a' of either the floppy or the hard disk.

You could try setting the correct device path in /boot/boot.config, but 
I suspect that won't be read until too late.


gptboot looks for the first UFS partition.  Maybe /boot/boot can be 
modified to do that also.

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after youtube .swf, black xterm text => transparent

[Gary Aitken]

After doing a number of port upgrades to try to get firefox 16 to play
youtube audio again (still doesn't), I now see that when I put an xterm
window over a particular portion of the display, the black areas on the
xterm are transparent, and are showing a portion of a youtube page 
which is no longer playing but which is still open on either a visible
or a non-visible (i.e. not the current) tab.

The image is from the end of the following page:

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHuYmhY-5-g

and the video content is
  https://s.ytimg.com/yts/swfbin/watch_as3-vfl1ubMZd.swf

Anyone else seeing this problem?

Hmm... this is weird.  If I iconify everything except a couple of
xterms, xwininfo clicked on the region where the image *was*, which now
has only the wm (xfce4) background, the xwininfo gives the window id
for the background.

This is particularly noticeable in the xfce terminal emulator, 0.4.8,
as it comes up with an entirely black background.

Gimp, firefox and thunderbird windows don't have the problem, nor does the
wm header.

I'm guessing this is a result of using the XVideo extension, and not using 
opengl in the wm, or something like that, based on this article:

  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X_video_extension

Can anyone shed some light on this and how to prevent it?

p.s.  I can't seem to find how to tell what options a port is installed
with, and what the defaults are.  I know it's there somewhere...

Thanks,

Gary
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Re: eGalax USB touch panel on ExoPC Slate vs. FreeBSD and X11

[Bill Paul]

> 
> I am pleased to see others having success at getting tablet input to work.
> I tried and failed with 8.x on my Fujitsu T-1010.
> 
> Question: The button emulation. Did you add that or was it already there? I
> want to use Squeak Smalltalk on a tablet and the three button mouse
> emulation is a big deal, especially without a keyboard.

The button emulation was already there. The BIOS on the ExoPC Slate
uses it itself: when you power up the tablet, there are two areas you can
press to enter the BIOS setup or the boot select menu. You can use the
touch panel to set the BIOS options or choose the boot path and then tap
the screen to select. The simulated button presses via screen taps are the
only thing that work with the ums(4) driver out of the box. If you look
at the HID collection dump from the mouse emulation mode, you can see it
supports an X axis, Y axis and two button inputs. The touch screen
synthesizes the button inputs internally based on tap patterns.

> 
> Which leads me to my next question. What are you using for input? Is anyone
> working on handwriting recognition or does Apple still have the patents
> locked up? My goal is to be as much as possible like the Newton.

Initially I was using a USB keyboard. The ExoPC Slate has two USB ports
on the side. I have this old Targus USB I/O expander that also provides
PS/2 keyboard and mouse inputs, along with RS-232 port, printer port and
USB ethernet (Pegasus chipset, aue(4) driver). At minimum, USB keyboard
is required in order to install FreeBSD. I also the USB thumbdrive
installer to load the OS. After that I used the USB ethernet to load
papckages.

Once I had the OS installed, I switched to using a bluetooth keyboard.
It's less clunky without the extra wires.

Note that this was intended to be Intel's developer reference platform
for the Meego OS (which is basically just another flavor of Linux). It
came with Meego installed (it's now dual-booting Meego and FreeBSD). Meego
includes an on-screen keyboard input widget which is something that plain
X11 lacks. So for now, I need a physical keyboard.

In addition to the eGalax touch screen, the Slate has:

Atom N450 1.66Ghz CPU (can run i386 or amd64 versions of FreeBSD)
2GB RAM
64GB SSD storage
Atheros 9285 WiFi
Atheros bluetooth
Intel Pineview graphics (1388x768 resolution)

The bluetooth requires a binary blob firmware image to be loaded and
I had to jigger the Intel xf86 video driver a little but it's all working
now.

-Bill

> 
> On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 9:04 AM, Bill Paul  wrote:
> 
> >
> > Well... apparently I was able to get this to work on my own. To recap, I
> > have an ExoPC Slate running FreeBSD 9.0 and xorg 1.7 with an eGalax
> > USB HID touch screen. Out of the box, ums(4) claims it but doesn't
> > like it.
> >
> > After investigating a bit more, I found that the screen has multiple HID
> > collections associated with it:
> >
> > Collection type=Application page=Digitizer usage=Touch_Screen
> > Collection type=Physical page=Digitizer usage=Finger
> >
> > Collection type=Application page=Generic_Desktop usage=Pointer
> > Collection type=Physical page=Generic_Desktop usage=Pointer
> >
> > Collection type=Application page=Microsoft usage=0x0001
> >
> > Collection type=Application page=Digitizer usage=Touch_Screen
> > Collection type=Physical page=Digitizer usage=Stylus
> >
> > Collection type=Application page=Digitizer usage=Device_Configuration
> > Collection type=Physical page=Digitizer usage=Finger
> >
> > The ums(4) driver is trying to use the 'Pointer' collection, but I think
> > it may be getting confused by the X/Y ranges:
> >
> > Collection type=Application page=Generic_Desktop usage=Pointer
> > Collection type=Physical page=Generic_Desktop usage=Pointer
> > Input   rid=1 size=1 count=1 page=Button usage=Button_1, logical range
> > 0..1, physical range 1..2047
> > Input   rid=1 size=1 count=1 page=Button usage=Button_2, logical range
> > 0..1, physical range 1..2047
> > Input   rid=1 size=16 count=1 page=Generic_Desktop usage=X, logical range
> > 0..4095, physical range 0..4095
> > Input   rid=1 size=16 count=1 page=Generic_Desktop usage=Y, logical range
> > 0..4095, physical range 0..4095
> > End collection
> > End collection
> >
> > There are two problems. First, the ranges are a little unusual. I think
> > other mouse devices only have ranges from -127 to +127. Second, the input
> > flags for the X and Y axis entries are 0x2 (HI_VARIABLE) and not
> > HI_RELATIVE,
> > which is what the usm(4) driver expects. This causes it to ignore the X
> > and Y
> > axis entries and only handle the button entries. I tried changing the code
> > to
> > accept just the HI_VARIABLE flag, but that still didn't make the cursor
> > move.
> > In any case, I was wrong that the problem is that the FreeBSD ums(4) driver
> > doesn't handle gestures: it's just not flexible enough to handle this
> >  oddball pointer design.
> >
> > Anyway, go get it to work with X as a standard pointer device, I finally
>

Re: SSD for FreeBSD NAS device

[Shane Ambler]

On 20/11/2012 20:54, bsd wrote:

Hello,

I have just acquired an Intel R2312GZ4GC4 which I have equipped with
a Adaptec RAID 51245 and 6 WD red disks of 3To - It'll come with
32Gb of Kingston ECC RAM.

I am planing to use It as a backup device on a second hosting
facility to backup couple of critical servers of mine.



Do you think I should go for a redundant SSD drives (RAID 1) or does
this offers limited interest in such config ?


The advantage of SSD drives is their speed, in a ZFS config they can
help most in two ways, as cache devices to speed up disk access or as
log devices to increase reliability.

Personally for a backup server I would use the two SSD drives as a
mirrored log device for the ZFS pool. Reliability over performance.

Having said that if you haven't got them I wouldn't get them. For a busy
fileserver in the office you want the extra performance. As an offsite
backup server the time saved in performance is only going to impact a
few times a day and will be outweighed by the network speed. The cost of
the SSD drives could add more drives to increase space or redundancy -
RAIDZ3 ?


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Re: FreeBSD needs Git to ensure repo integrity [was: 2012 incident]

[Baptiste Daroussin]

On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 07:08:13PM -0800, Zach Leslie wrote:
> > http://www.fossil-scm.org/
> > 
> > I'm not fossil user, but it's BSD licensed in written in C.
> > Baptise Daroussin probably could tell us more about fossil pro and cons.
> 
> This misses one of of the main points raised in the original post.  The
> proliferation of git as a revision control system.
> 
> Also, this particular tool bails out on the unix philosophy, with its web
> gui, ticket tracker etc.  Do one thing.  Do it well.
> 

Look at the internal of fossil and how things are done in fossil and you would
understand that the last sentence is totally wrong.

Fossil has really nice features that could nicely fits with FreeBSD workflows
and greatly improves it.

It has most of the new shiny feature everyone can expect from a dvcs, but it
also has it drawbacks:
The converted repositories (I did convert docs, src and ports) with full history
kept: branches, tags, etc. is huge and the first clone would be painful to do.
On the other side you have multiple working copies open on the same clone which
is really nice.

Some of the operations can be slow, Jörg Sonnenberger wrote an analysis about
this one the fossil wiki, but don't remember the link sorry.

From my testing, apart from the do we really need a new scm question? I am a big
fan of fossil and find it easier and cleaner than all the other scm I know, I
use git for pkgng and other projects, I use a lot mercurial on some other area,
and fossil remains my favorite :). But I really don't think it could fit
FreeBSD's requirements as it is now. but there are lots of room of improvements.

The learning curve to fossil is probably really easy.

On of the last thing is that fossil lacks keyword expansion.

That said I'm happy with svn on FreeBSD, I still from time to time do conversion
of out different tree to fossil for fun, but no more and I won't advocate for
any vcs change.

Bapt


pgppBxhkxmBDd.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: boot problem after freebsd-update from 9.1-RC2 to 9.1-RC3

[freebsd]

On 2012-11-20 14:28, Gary Aitken wrote:
> On 11/20/12 13:34, free...@johnea.net wrote:

>> freebsd-update upgrade -r 9.1-RC3
...
>> "Not UFS"  "No ada0" "No boot"

> 
> Seems like it isn't supposed to work for 9.1-RC2
> 

I previously used binary update to migrate from 9.0 to 9.1, via:

freebsd-update upgrade -r 9.1-RC1
freebsd-update install
reboot
freebsd-update install
reboot

I'm starting to think having the swap partition in gm0s1a and the booting UFS 
partition in ada0s1b is the problem:
http://forums.freebsd.org/showthread.php?t=31954

The "Not UFS" error comes immediately on boot. 

If I boot from rescue media, I can start the gmirror, mount it and chroot into 
it.

The whole install seems fine except for the first stage boot loader finding the 
UFS partition.

A handy bootloader config trick would be greatly appreciated!

johnea
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Re: The Opera browser on FreeBSD

[ill...@gmail.com]

On 20 November 2012 13:23, peter weismann  wrote:
> I find two native FreeBSD ports for OPERA.
> With that I want to say, I am not using Linux-Opera anymore.
> But since some time, I had installed
> www/opera-devel
> and
> www/opera
> at the same time and played with them. Now I see, that opera has a
> greater release-level then opera-devel.
> That makes no sense.

Yes, opera.com is rolling out releases fairly quickly
these days, & www/opera-devel doesn't get updated often
enough to make much sense.  What I do (when I wish to
run test versions) is poke my tube machine on over to
http://http://www.opera.com/browser/next/
pull down the correct file, then untar it into a directory,
copy the profile/ directory over (if needed) & run it
from the local users directory.

This way we don't have stray files clotting up /usr/local
& don't have to rely on the whims of the maintainer
to update a rather fast-moving target.

-- 
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Re: boot problem after freebsd-update from 9.1-RC2 to 9.1-RC3

[Gary Aitken]

On 11/20/12 13:34, free...@johnea.net wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I recently installed a 9.1-RC2 system using gmirror with MBR, and swap in 
> first bsdlabel.
> 
> orsbackup# gpart show
> =>63  3907029104  mirror/gm0  MBR  (1.8T)
>63  63  - free -  (31k)
>   126  3907028979   1  freebsd  [active]  (1.8T)
>3907029105  62  - free -  (31k)
> 
> => 0  3907028979  mirror/gm0s1  BSD  (1.8T)
> 0   2- free -  (1.0k)
> 216777216 1  freebsd-swap  (8.0G)
>  16777218  3890251760 2  freebsd-ufs  (1.8T)
>3907028978   1- free -  (512B)
> 
> The drive was setup with the following commands:
> 
> orsbackup# gpart create -s MBR mirror/gm0
> mirror/gm0 created
> orsbackup# gpart add -t freebsd -a 4k mirror/gm0
> # ignored "mirror/gm0s1 added, but partition is not aligned on 4096 bytes"
> # create the bsdlabel partitions in slice 1 (s1)
> orsbackup# gpart create -s BSD mirror/gm0s1
> orsbackup# gpart add -t freebsd-swap -a 4k -s 8g mirror/gm0s1
> orsbackup# gpart add -t freebsd-ufs -a 4k mirror/gm0s1
> # put bootcode on the MBR and mark the first slice active
> orsbackup# gpart bootcode -b /boot/mbr mirror/gm0
> orsbackup# gpart set -a active -i 1 mirror/gm0
> # put bootcode on the bsdlabel
> orsbackup# gpart bootcode -b /boot/boot mirror/gm0s1
> 
> 
> The system rebooted several times without issue. This system is a testbed for 
> 9.1 and is not yet deployed as a production server.
> 
> I thought I'd update to 9.1-RC3, so I ran:
> 
> freebsd-update upgrade -r 9.1-RC3
> freebsd-update install
> reboot
> 
> The system won't boot and complains about:
> 
> "Not UFS"  "No ada0" "No boot"
> 
> Before I charge ahead with reissuing the gpart bootcode commands I thought 
> I'd:
> 
> a) make others aware there may be issues in freebsd-update with the 9.1 
> release candidates
> 
> b) ask about the best way to resolve this bootloader issue.
> 
> Thanks you for any pointers in resolving this bootloader issue!
> 
> johnea

Not sure, but this might apply:

 The freebsd-update tool is used to fetch, install, and rollback binary
 updates to the FreeBSD base system.  Note that updates are only available
 if they are being built for the FreeBSD release and architecture being
 used; in particular, the FreeBSD Security Team only builds updates for
 releases shipped in binary form by the FreeBSD Release Engineering Team,
 e.g., FreeBSD 7.3-RELEASE and FreeBSD 8.0-RELEASE, but not FreeBSD
 6.3-STABLE or FreeBSD 9.0-CURRENT.

Seems like it isn't supposed to work for 9.1-RC2


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boot problem after freebsd-update from 9.1-RC2 to 9.1-RC3

[freebsd]

Hello,

I recently installed a 9.1-RC2 system using gmirror with MBR, and swap in first 
bsdlabel.

orsbackup# gpart show
=>63  3907029104  mirror/gm0  MBR  (1.8T)
  63  63  - free -  (31k)
 126  3907028979   1  freebsd  [active]  (1.8T)
  3907029105  62  - free -  (31k)

=> 0  3907028979  mirror/gm0s1  BSD  (1.8T)
   0   2- free -  (1.0k)
   216777216 1  freebsd-swap  (8.0G)
16777218  3890251760 2  freebsd-ufs  (1.8T)
  3907028978   1- free -  (512B)

The drive was setup with the following commands:

orsbackup# gpart create -s MBR mirror/gm0
mirror/gm0 created
orsbackup# gpart add -t freebsd -a 4k mirror/gm0
# ignored "mirror/gm0s1 added, but partition is not aligned on 4096 bytes"
# create the bsdlabel partitions in slice 1 (s1)
orsbackup# gpart create -s BSD mirror/gm0s1
orsbackup# gpart add -t freebsd-swap -a 4k -s 8g mirror/gm0s1
orsbackup# gpart add -t freebsd-ufs -a 4k mirror/gm0s1
# put bootcode on the MBR and mark the first slice active
orsbackup# gpart bootcode -b /boot/mbr mirror/gm0
orsbackup# gpart set -a active -i 1 mirror/gm0
# put bootcode on the bsdlabel
orsbackup# gpart bootcode -b /boot/boot mirror/gm0s1


The system rebooted several times without issue. This system is a testbed for 
9.1 and is not yet deployed as a production server.

I thought I'd update to 9.1-RC3, so I ran:

freebsd-update upgrade -r 9.1-RC3
freebsd-update install
reboot

The system won't boot and complains about:

"Not UFS"  "No ada0" "No boot"

Before I charge ahead with reissuing the gpart bootcode commands I thought I'd:

a) make others aware there may be issues in freebsd-update with the 9.1 release 
candidates

b) ask about the best way to resolve this bootloader issue.

Thanks you for any pointers in resolving this bootloader issue!

johnea
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portmaster + unknown dependency problem

[Laszlo Nagy]

I have a 8.2-STABLE system. Last port upgrade was about a year ago. (I 
know, this is bad.) I was trying to update all ports, by following the 
UPDATING file. As it turned out, some ports has been deprecated/deleted. 
I have a problem in particular with the py-bittornado-core port. I do 
not need it. So I have deleted it:


# pkg_info | grep bittornado
#

Clearly, it is not installed. However, when I write in this command:

# portmaster -a

Then I get this error:

===>>> The net-p2p/py-bittornado-core port has been deleted: Has 
expired: Depends on the deprecated wx 2.4

===>>> Aborting update

Well, here is the question: why does it want to build a port that does 
not even exist in the ports tree? It was really deleted, there is no 
such thing as /usr/ports/net-p2p/py-bittornado-core . I have also tried 
to do this:


# portmaster -a -x py-bittornado-core

but it has exactly the same problem. Is this a stale dependency to a 
nonexistent port? How can I overcome this problem?


Thanks,

  Laszlo


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Re: Xorg got stuck sometimes

[David Demelier]

On 20/11/2012 19:18, Hooman Oroojeni wrote:

Try to rebuild Xorg with WITHOUT_NOUVEAU. That maybe helpfull.

Cheers

On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 5:38 PM, David Demelier
mailto:demelier.da...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Hi there,

Sometimes, Xorg got stuck but I can't reproduce it always. When it
appears, Xorg just stop being usable and mouse / keyboard can't be
used also, switching to tty does not work at all and the screen is
frozen.

But I still can use ssh to connect the broken host and shutdown it
normally, Xorg will use 100% of CPU when it breaks like this.

I noticed this message when it appears :

EQ overflowing. The server is probably stuck in an infinite loop.

I'm using the nvidia nvidia-driver-304.64 on FreeBSD 9.1-RC3

Cheers,
--
David Demelier
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--






WITHOUT_NOUVEAU is already in my make.conf..

Cheers,

--
David Demelier
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The Opera browser on FreeBSD

[peter weismann]

I find two native FreeBSD ports for OPERA.
With that I want to say, I am not using Linux-Opera anymore.
But since some time, I had installed 
www/opera-devel
and
www/opera
at the same time and played with them. Now I see, that opera has a
greater release-level then opera-devel.
That makes no sense.
Bye.

-- 
:
: 
: ***Hinweis in eigener Sache:
: Diese Nachricht ist nur und ausschließlich an den oder die Empfänger
: gerichtet.
: Weiterleiten oder veröffentlichen oder auf andere Weise Dritten zur
: Kenntnis zu bringen, ist, auch in Teilen oder auszugsweise oder in
: Zitaten, nicht statthaft.
: Für Folgen, die aus der Verwendung von Inhalten einer durch mich
: zugestellten oder weitergeleiteten Nachricht entstehen, übernehme
: ich keinerlei Haftung!
: Irrtümlich erhaltene Nachrichten sind bitte sofort zu löschen.***
: 
:

|___(_nun_mit_FreeBSD:-> 8.3-RELEASE @>senyo_)__|
|
|   frohes schaffen dank open source
|
|   p...@weispit.eu
|
|___(_nun_mit_FreeBSD:-> 8.3-RELEASE @>senyo_)__|

"Two of the most famous products of Berkeley are LSD and Unix.
I don't think that this is a coincidence."
From: The UNIX-HATERS Handbook, ISBN 1-56884-203-1
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Re: portsnap

[jb]

Robert Bonomi  mail.r-bonomi.com> writes:

> ... 
> > > the authors of the portsnap docs (and the _numerous_ other applications 
> > > that describe the use of certain keywords used as input to that 
> > > appication ARE correct -- despite your boneheaded denial of that fact.

Yes, it is a keyword, a keyword parameter that tells CLI command what to do
(yes, a keyword that may be taken verbatim or translated into an internal
command parameter(s), a keyword that represents an action).
But, it is not a command, or parameter of type command.

> > With regard to definition of "a command" as we practice and argue about 
> > here:
> >
> > In general (see bash(1), SHELL GRAMMAR, Simple Commands), a command is an 
> > executable preceded by optional vars and followed by optional parameters.

> You lie.  A "command" does not have to have the attributes of a command-line
> invocation.

Well, a second nature ... But, it is an honor :-)

To drive the point:
let's assume that it is a valid syntax to pass a parameter like this:
"ls -al"
or much better, command="", like this:
command="ls -al"
then it would be clear that a command (parameter) is passed to CLI command.
This kind of command parameter passing fulfilles the definition of a command
as referenced.

If you are familiar with C function system(), you will have easier time to
understand:
http://www.cplusplus.com/reference/clibrary/cstdlib/system/
The prototype is:
int system ( const char * command );
The command "ls -al" (yes, it is a command as referenced) is a parameter to
system() function:
system("ls -al");
It just says, execute that command "ls -al" in the existing execution
environment.

The reason I go so by the book about it is that "words have meaning" and
definitions :-)
jb


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HP proliant dl385 startx freezes machine

[Kenneth Hatteland]

I have a Proliant 385 dl with a Ati Rage XL graphics card ( which should
correspond with the Mach64 driver)

I have installed xorg as I have done "a zillion times", and used Xorg
-configure to set it all up. I have then edited the .conf file as usual,
accordingly to  the handbook.

I have added LXFE in the same manner as on my main computer, and made a
.xinitrc with startlxde

When i call upon startx as my own user the server  freezes and xorg does
not start. If doing it by SSH the pipe sooner or later breaks, and I can
log back in.

When I consult /var/log/Xorg.X.log I get the follwing error listed :
 
Fatal server error:
xf86OpenConsole: VT_SETMODE VT_PROCESS failed

I have googled quite a lot but cannot find anything help me get Xorg up
and running.

Anyone out there with any hints ?

Blessed be

Kenneth Hatteland, Norway

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Help needed : acroread needs libcanberra-gtk-module.so

[Manish Jain]

Hello,

This is the first time I am seeing a problem with running Acrobat Reader 
(on a fresh FreeBSD-8.3-i386 installation) :


/root # Gtk-Message: Failed to load module "canberra-gtk-module": 
libcanberra-gtk-module.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file 
or directory
Gtk-Message: Failed to load module "gnomesegvhandler": 
libgnomesegvhandler.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or 
directory


[1]+  Exit 1  acroread8


Running the linux version of Opera is even more disastrous :

/root # linux-opera
linux-opera linux-opera-widget-manager
/root # linux-opera &
[1] 2984
/root # opera [crash logging]: CRASH!!
/usr/local/lib/linux-opera/opera got signal SIGSEGV at address 0841AA43


Can someone please help me out ?


--
Regards,

Manish Jain
bourne.ident...@hotmail.com

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Re: portsnap

[Robert Bonomi]

> From owner-freebsd-questi...@freebsd.org  Tue Nov 20 11:14:25 2012
> To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
> From: jb 
> Subject: Re: portsnap
> Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2012 17:12:46 + (UTC)
>
> Robert Bonomi  mail.r-bonomi.com> writes:
>
> > ...
> > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Command-line_interface
> > > ...
> > > The general pattern of an OS command line interface is: prompt 
> > > command param1 param2 param3 ... paramN
> >
> >  No argument -- for _that_ meaning of the word.  That, however, is not 
> >  the only valid usage or interpretation of it.
> >
> > The truth that you refuse to acknowledge is that in *many* cases, one 
> > or more of the 'params' on the command line are commands TO THE 
> > APPlICATION BEING INVOKED.

> > > A simple CLI will display a prompt, accept a "command line" typed by 
> > > the
> > >  [drivelectomy]
> > >  So, we are discussing here things that are obvious. People who write 
> > >  technical or user manuals should have a clue of what they are 
> > >  writing and talking about (e.g. what is "a command", also called "an 
> > >  entry"). Otherwise they screw up the users and "it's a software 
> > >  error" sysadmins.
> >
> > the authors of the portsnap docs (and the _numerous_ other applications 
> > that describe the use of certain keywords used as input to that 
> > appication ARE correct -- despite your boneheaded denial of that fact.
> >
> > A "command" specifies, to the application to which it is directed, 
> > _what_ (or _which_, if you prefer) operation/activity/function is to be 
> > performed. In grammar terms it is a =verb=.
> >
> > A 'parameter'/'option'/'switch'/etc. instructs the application to which 
> > it is directed to , _how_ to perform the particular action.  It 
> > _modifies_ the action to be performed.  In grammar terms it is an 
> > =adverb=.
> >
> > This distinction has been known to, understood, and employed by those 
> > who write/read/use technical instructions for well over THREE HUNDRED 
> > years. (early multi-function machinery, such as a crane, could only 
> > perform one action at a time -- e.g. traverse, adjust boom, lift; you 
> > moved one set of controls to command the machine _which_ action to 
> > perform, and then another set of controls to ccntrol how it is done.
>
> ... also responding to kpneal  pobox.com> ...
>
> With regard to definition of "a command" as we practice and argue about 
> here:
>
> In general (see bash(1), SHELL GRAMMAR, Simple Commands), a command is an 
> executable preceded by optional vars and followed by optional parameters.

Repeating:

  No argument -- for _that_ meaning of the word.  That, however, is not 
  the only valid usage or interpretation of it.

  The truth that you refuse to acknowledge is that in *many* cases, one 
  or more of the 'params' on the command line are commands TO THE 
  APPlICATION BEING INVOKED.

> Look at PORTSNAP(8)'s synopsis again. The command is 'portsnap', anything 
> else are parameters to it.

According to the manpage some of those parameters ARE described as commands.

A form of usage/description employed by the first *professional* documentation
specialists at Bell Labs (also Dartmouth, Xerox, and others) more than 40
years ago (yes, 'before Unix') and still in use by documentation professionals
_today_.

> If you call a parameter a command here, you imply that it has attributes 
> of a command, which clearly does not, as referenced by me above.

You lie.  A "command" does not have to have the attributes of a command-line
invocation.

> So, basically, it is an indicator, verbosely (but not required to be so 
> if it were also verbosely defined in man page) describing an action 
> parameter, e.g. extract, telling the actual 'portsnap' command what to do 
> (yes - what to do, and not how to do it).

It has been tradition in the Unix community (and elsewhere) to refer to
what you call 'action parameters' as "commands" -- especially in formal
system documentation -- for well over THREE DECADES.

Your insistance that 'command' can ONLY refer to a command-line invocation
is contrary to 'plain English', 30+ years of Unix history/tradition, and
another 25+ years of computing history before that.

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Re: Xorg got stuck sometimes

[Hooman Oroojeni]

Try to rebuild Xorg with WITHOUT_NOUVEAU. That maybe helpfull.

Cheers

On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 5:38 PM, David Demelier wrote:

> Hi there,
>
> Sometimes, Xorg got stuck but I can't reproduce it always. When it
> appears, Xorg just stop being usable and mouse / keyboard can't be used
> also, switching to tty does not work at all and the screen is frozen.
>
> But I still can use ssh to connect the broken host and shutdown it
> normally, Xorg will use 100% of CPU when it breaks like this.
>
> I noticed this message when it appears :
>
> EQ overflowing. The server is probably stuck in an infinite loop.
>
> I'm using the nvidia nvidia-driver-304.64 on FreeBSD 9.1-RC3
>
> Cheers,
> --
> David Demelier
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Xorg got stuck sometimes

[David Demelier]

Hi there,

Sometimes, Xorg got stuck but I can't reproduce it always. When it 
appears, Xorg just stop being usable and mouse / keyboard can't be used 
also, switching to tty does not work at all and the screen is frozen.


But I still can use ssh to connect the broken host and shutdown it 
normally, Xorg will use 100% of CPU when it breaks like this.


I noticed this message when it appears :

EQ overflowing. The server is probably stuck in an infinite loop.

I'm using the nvidia nvidia-driver-304.64 on FreeBSD 9.1-RC3

Cheers,
--
David Demelier
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Re: portsnap

[Steve O'Hara-Smith]

On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 10:46:55 + (UTC)
jb  wrote:


> Educate yourselves, please. It's scary when one confuses command arguments
> with a command because some nitwit described/called it that way.
> jb

Well with nearly 30 years in unix software development I do know a
thing or two about it. However that is not relevant, the sad thing is that
you have destroyed any chance of getting whatever help you wanted by
deciding to argue about what you think words should mean instead of
understanding how they are being used.

-- 
Steve O'Hara-Smith 
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Re: LSI 2008 drivers

[Cejka Rudolf]

Alltek Supplies Tech Support/Customer Service wrote (2012/11/19):
> Good afternoon,
> We're looking to build a ZFS storage device with FreeBSD version 8.3,
> however, the Supermicro based hardware comes with LSI 2008 SAS controller
> card and we were told that LSI / Supermicro doesn't have a driver for
> FreeBSD.  We're just wondering if the LSI 2008 is supported under
> FreeBSD version 8.3?

Hello, yes, look at mps(4) driver.

-- 
Rudolf Cejka  http://www.fit.vutbr.cz/~cejkar
Brno University of Technology, Faculty of Information Technology
Bozetechova 2, 612 66  Brno, Czech Republic
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Re: portsnap

[jb]

Robert Bonomi  mail.r-bonomi.com> writes:

> ... 
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Command-line_interface
> > ...
> > The general pattern of an OS command line interface is: prompt command 
> > param1 param2 param3 ... paramN
> 
> No argument -- for _that_ meaning of the word.  That, however, is not
> the only valid usage or interpretation of it.
> 
> The truth that you refuse to acknowledge is that in *many* cases, one or
> more of the 'params' on the command line are commands TO THE APPlICATION
> BEING INVOKED.
> > A simple CLI will display a prompt, accept a "command line" typed by the 
> >  [drivelectomy]
> > So, we are discussing here things that are obvious. People who write 
> > technical or user manuals should have a clue of what they are writing and 
> > talking about (e.g. what is "a command", also called "an entry"). 
> > Otherwise they screw up the users and "it's a software error" sysadmins. 
> 
> the authors of the portsnap docs (and the _numerous_ other applications
> that describe the use of certain keywords used as input to that appication
> ARE correct -- despite your boneheaded denial of that fact.
> 
> A "command" specifies, to the application to which it is directed, _what_
> (or _which_, if you prefer) operation/activity/function is to be performed.
> In grammar terms it is a =verb=.
> 
> A 'parameter'/'option'/'switch'/etc. instructs the application to which it 
> is directed to , _how_ to perform the particular action.  It _modifies_ the
> action to be performed.  In grammar terms it is an =adverb=.
> 
> This distinction has been known to, understood, and employed by those who
> write/read/use technical instructions for well over THREE HUNDRED years.
> (early multi-function machinery, such as a crane, could only perform one
> action at a time -- e.g. traverse, adjust boom, lift; you moved one set
> of controls to command the machine _which_ action to perform, and then
> another set of controls to ccntrol how it is done.

... also responding to kpneal  pobox.com> ...

With regard to definition of "a command" as we practice and argue about here:

In general (see bash(1), SHELL GRAMMAR, Simple Commands), a command is 
an executable preceded by optional vars and followed by optional parameters.

Look at PORTSNAP(8)'s synopsis again.
The command is 'portsnap', anything else are parameters to it.

If you call a parameter a command here, you imply that it has attributes of
a command, which clearly does not, as referenced by me above.

So, basically, it is an indicator, verbosely (but not required to be so if it
were also verbosely defined in man page) describing an action parameter, e.g.
extract, telling the actual 'portsnap' command what to do (yes - what to do,
and not how to do it).

jb


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Dispatching software that works

[NetDispatcher]

In order to see your message, click on the following link: 
http://track.zmd0.com/v/103/60e3e06e1f306f808d0b52348b54d22e6001c9566f551bd0

To unsubscribe click here: 
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Re: portsnap

[Robert Bonomi]

> From owner-freebsd-questi...@freebsd.org  Tue Nov 20 03:17:25 2012
> To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
> From: jb 
> Subject: Re: portsnap
> Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2012 09:15:16 + (UTC)
>
> Robert Bonomi  mail.r-bonomi.com> writes:
>
> > ...
> > > > > > > > You gave portsnap two commands - one succeeded and the 
> > > > > > > > other failed.
> > > > >
> > > > > Nope. I gave ONE command: 'portsnap fetch update'.
> > > >
> > > > FALSE TO FACT.
> > >
> > > No way. UNIX command (on a command line, also called CLI), is 
> > > anything between prompt
> >
> > *NOBODY* said "Unix command".  _You_ falsely imputed that meaning to 
> > the respondants use of the word in a context with a different 
> > applicable meaning.
> >
> > 'command' has many meanings -- *especially* in the Unix environment.
> >
> > [drivelectomy]
> >
> > You persist in repeating your error.
> > ...
>
> Well, yes - CLI applies to many environments (not only OSs), with the 
> same basic format.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Command-line_interface
> ...
> The general pattern of an OS command line interface is: prompt command 
> param1 param2 param3 ... paramN

No argument -- for _that_ meaning of the word.  That, however, is not
the only valid usage or interpretation of it.

The truth that you refuse to acknowledge is that in *many* cases, one or
more of the 'params' on the command line are commands TO THE APPlICATION
BEING INVOKED.
> A simple CLI will display a prompt, accept a "command line" typed by the 
>  [drivelectomy]
> So, we are discussing here things that are obvious. People who write 
> technical or user manuals should have a clue of what they are writing and 
> talking about (e.g. what is "a command", also called "an entry"). 
> Otherwise they screw up the users and "it's a software error" sysadmins. 

the authors of the portsnap docs (and the _numerous_ other applications
that describe the use of certain keywords used as input to that appication
ARE correct -- despite your boneheaded denial of that fact.

A "command" specifies, to the application to which it is directed, _what_
(or _which_, if you prefer) operation/activity/function is to be performed.
In grammar terms it is a =verb=.

A 'parameter'/'option'/'switch'/etc. instructs the application to which it 
is directed to , _how_ to perform the particular action.  It _modifies_ the
action to be performed.  In grammar terms it is an =adverb=.

This distinction has been known to, understood, and employed by those who
write/read/use technical instructions for well over THREE HUNDRED years.
(early multi-function machinery, such as a crane, could only perform one
action at a time -- e.g. traverse, adjust boom, lift; you moved one set
of controls to command the machine _which_ action to perform, and then
another set of controls to ccntrol how it is done.


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Re: SSD for FreeBSD NAS device

[Dan Nelson]

In the last episode (Nov 20), bsd said:
> I have just acquired an Intel R2312GZ4GC4 which I have equipped with a
> Adaptec RAID 51245 and 6 WD red disks of 3To - It'll come with 32Gb of
> Kingston ECC RAM.
> 
> I am planing to use It as a backup device on a second hosting facility to
> backup couple of critical servers of mine.
[..] 
> I wanted to know what were your experiences on choosing an SSD HD as
> master boot device / root FS ?
>
> Do you think I should go for a redundant SSD drives (RAID 1) or does this
> offers limited interest in such config ?

For any "critical" server, don't think of RAID as an option, think of it as
a requirement.

-- 
Dan Nelson
dnel...@allantgroup.com
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Re: /usr/sbin/ppp doubling connections on tun0

[Fbsd8]

andrew clarke wrote:

I'm using /usr/sbin/ppp for PPPoE over an ADSL modem in bridged mode:

# ifconfig tun0
tun0: flags=8051 metric 0 mtu 1492
options=8
inet 203.217.27.170 --> 203.215.15.252 netmask 0x 
inet 203.214.46.107 --> 203.215.7.251 netmask 0x 
Opened by PID 49158


What would cause this?

Notice the two IP addresses assigned to the same interface. It should
just have one address assigned.

Something causes the initial PPPoE session to stop, then another to
restart without properly closing the previous PPPoE session.

I'm not sure when this started happening but I've noticed it's become
more frequent in the past few weeks. One theory I have is that it may
have begun after I upgraded FreeBSD from 8.2 to 8.3 a few months back.

I suppose concurrent PPPoE sessions aren't the end of the world, but
obviously it makes no sense to have two on the same interface, so I'd
like to prevent that.

(Strictly speaking they aren't concurrent as the previously allocated
IP [203.217.27.170 in the case above] no longer responds to pings,
etc. It's dead, Jim.)

The multiple IP addresses also causes /usr/ports/dns/ddclient to get
confused and not tell DynDNS when a new IP address has been assigned,
although perhaps that's a bug (sort of) in ddclient.

I notice FreeBSD PR 151400 mentions:

"The patch also makes a small change to how ppp(8) destroys interfaces
at exit. Instead of just dealiasing interfaces and leaving them
behind, they are now destroyed in the same manner "ifconfig destroy"
works."

I wonder if that's the cause? If I get a chance I'll try building a
local copy of /usr/sbin/ppp with the patch reverted and test that,
although it can be a difficult problem to replicate. Plus of course
the patch doesn't explain the initial disconnections. I suspect that's
an issue unrelated to /usr/sbin/ppp though.

# cat /etc/ppp/ppp.conf
default:
  set log phase chat lcp ipcp ccp tun command lqm
  set ifaddr 10.0.0.1/0 10.0.0.2/0 255.255.255.255
  nat enable yes
  disable lqr
  disable ipv6cp
  set echoperiod 30
  enable echo

iinet:

  set device PPPoE:bge0
  set authname secret
  set authkey secret
  set dial
  set login
  set mru 1492
  set mtu 1492
  set redial 15 0
  add default HISADDR

# grep ppp /etc/rc.conf
ppp_enable="YES"
ppp_mode="ddial"
ppp_nat="YES"
ppp_profile="iinet"

# uname -a
FreeBSD blizzard.phoenix 8.3-RELEASE-p3 FreeBSD 8.3-RELEASE-p3 #0: Tue Jun 12 
00:39:29 UTC 2012
r...@amd64-builder.daemonology.net:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/GENERIC  amd64

In the meantime I've switched to using mpd5 (/usr/ports/net/mpd5) and
/sbin/ipnat. So far, so good:

# ifconfig ng0
ng0: flags=88d1 metric 0 mtu 
1492
inet 124.170.51.116 --> 203.215.7.251 netmask 0x 


Regards
Andrew




Add these statements to your ppp.conf file


 disable iface-alias# Stop adding old IP address as alias
# when ppp redials because line was
# lost. These old IPs showed using
# ifconfig -a on tun0.

iface clear # Remove all previous IP addresses




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Tuning modern (i.e. 9.x) FreeBSD Systems for 'servers' - any guides?

[Karl Pielorz]

Hi,

We've got a number of 9.x systems in service - replacing a number of older 
6/7/8 ones.


In the olden days (going back quite a while) you had to fiddle around with 
stuff like NMBCLUSTERS, MAXUSERS etc. In fact, if you have a look around 
Google it's littered with guides/articles for this stuff, which appears to 
be all very out of date.


Does anyone have any links for 'modern' tuning guides - or is it simply not 
necessary with newer FreeBSD versions? (e.g. 9.x upwards) e.g. if the 
machine is amd64 w/6-8Gb of RAM - running GENERIC.


The servers typically handle lots of TCP sessions - so I'm just concerned 
about what in the olden days would have been network buffers etc.


Thanks,

-Karl
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Re: PPPoA section of FreeBSD Handbook

[RW]

On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 11:51:51 +1100
andrew clarke wrote:

> On Tue 2012-11-20 11:49:38 UTC+1100, andrew clarke
> (m...@ozzmosis.com) wrote:
> 
> > In the meantime I've switched to using mpd5 (/usr/ports/net/mpd5)
> > and /sbin/ipnat. So far, so good:
> > 
> > # ifconfig ng0
> > ng0: flags=88d1
> > metric 0 mtu 1492 inet 124.170.51.116 --> 203.215.7.251 netmask
> > 0x 
> 
> Incidentally the PPPoA section of the FreeBSD is very out of date:
> 
> http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/pppoa.html
> 
> The ambiguously named net/pppoa port in section 28.6.1 has been marked
> as broken since 2009. (Ambiguous since it's only for a particular
> brand of USB ASDL modem.)
> 
> In section 28.6.2 the example provided is a config file for mpd 4.x
> which does not work in mpd 5.x.
> 
> net/mpd4 was deleted from the ports tree 11 months ago.
> 
> net/mpd5 doesn't seem to support PPPoA, only PPPoE. I could find no
> reference to PPPoA in the manual or source code.

Not many people really need that these days.  
 
PPPoA support is needed for obsolete USB modems which pass-through
ATM for the host to terminate. There are also some pci modems supported
by Linux, but I don't think they've been well supported on FreeBSD, if
at all. 

These days there are better options that only require standards-based
support in the host. Most PPPoA-based ISPs also support  PPPoE over ATM
- even if they don't advertise it or tell their low-level technical
support.  Alternatively you can:

- use a NAT router that terminate PPPoA
- use a router/modem that bridges PPPoA to PPPoE
- use a router/modem that terminates PPPoA and passes the public IP
  address to the host
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Re: Recent security announcement and csup/cvsup?

[Bas Smeelen]

On 11/20/2012 12:45 PM, Mohacsi Janos wrote:
> Dear Ollivier and all,
> I have problem with the portsnap: I maintain a private "repository" 
> under the /usr/ports: There is a /usr/ports/tmp where I store new ports to 
> be tested, and submitted. The portsnap is removing unrecognized local files.
> With cvsup I don't have such a problem.
> I have no information about pkgng, whether I can maintain private 
> repository with pkgng or not?

I guess the best in this case is to switch to subversion.
http://wiki.freebsd.org/PortsSubversionPrimer


>
> Janos Mohacsi
> Head of HBONE+ project
> Network Engineer, Director Network and Multimedia
> NIIF/HUNGARNET, HUNGARY
> Co-chair of Hungarian IPv6 Forum
> Key 70EF9882: DEC2 C685 1ED4 C95A 145F  4300 6F64 7B00 70EF 9882
>
> On Tue, 20 Nov 2012, Ollivier Robert wrote:
>
>> According to Gary Palmer on Sun, Nov 18, 2012 at 01:04:21PM -0500:
>>> In other words: while signed updates via freebsd-update and portsnap
>>> are great for a good chunk of users, they don't address everyones needs.
>>
>> Hopefully, with the move toward kngng, there will be less need of 
>> portsnap (and /usr/ports for that matter).
>>
>> -- 
>> Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- robe...@keltia.net
>> In memoriam to Ondine, our 2nd child: http://ondine.keltia.net/ 



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Re: FreeBSD needs Git to ensure repo integrity [was: 2012 incident]

[Mike Meyer]

Zach Leslie  wrote:
>> http://www.fossil-scm.org/ l
>> 
>> I'm not fossil user, but it's BSD licensed in written in C.
>Also, this particular tool bails out on the unix philosophy, with its
>web
>gui, ticket tracker etc.  Do one thing.  Do it well.

I would argue that git bails on that as well, but that's a different discussion.

Whether or not fossil does "one thing" depends on which "one thing" you pick.  
If the one thing is "version control", you're right. However "version control" 
is just one aspect of a larger task that does't have a common name.  But if you 
look at systems designed for managing projects with source, you'll see they 
universally provide web uis, issue trackers, and wikis.  Due you trash IDE's 
because they provide tools that are useful for doing "software development" 
instead of limiting themselves to being "text editors"?

That fossil provides all of those things in a single relatively small program 
is a major win - at  least for small projects (which is the fossil target). On 
the other hand, the fossil project does stay focused on the core task. They 
will reject a change proposal because it's not part of that task.

That said, much as I like fossil (it's my goto VCS) I don't think it would be a 
good choice for FreeBSD. We're not a small project - we have people who are 
willing to devote time to things like an external wiki and isse tracker. Nuts, 
we have (had?) repos in four different VCSs! Those features in fossil are 
purposely kept simple since they're meant for doing one thing, not as 
general-purpose tools for lots of things. The issue tracker doesn't support 
branching issues, which is liable to cause problems in a large project.  The 
FreeBSD wiki's are used for lots of things other than just project documents. 
The web ui - well, that's probably useable as is. But that one thing isn't a 
deal maker.
-- 
Sent from my Android tablet with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my swyping.
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Re: portsnap

[jb]

Steve O'Hara-Smith  sohara.org> writes:

> ...
 
Educate yourselves, please. It's scary when one confuses command arguments
with a command because some nitwit described/called it that way.
jb


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SSD for FreeBSD NAS device

[bsd]

Hello, 

I have just acquired an Intel R2312GZ4GC4 which I have equipped with a Adaptec 
RAID 51245 and 6 WD red disks of 3To - It'll come with 32Gb of Kingston ECC 
RAM. 

I am planing to use It as a backup device on a second hosting facility to 
backup couple of critical servers of mine. 


  Item: Intel(R) Server System R2312GZ4GC4
Intel(R) Server System: integrated in a 2U chassis supporting
12x3.5* Hot-swap drives, 24 DIMMs,  2 750W Redundant Power
Supplies, enterprise class IO, Intel(R) Remote Management
Module 4 (AXXRMM4R) Integrated Intel(R) Server System with (1) 
Intel(R) Server Board S2600GZ4 in 2U chassis, (1) airduct, (1) 
Control panel on rack handle, Support for 2x SSD mounting on
airduct, (12) 3.5” Hot Swap Drive Carriers with (1) Hot Swap 
Backplane, (3) SFF8087 to SFF8087 cables, (2) CPU heatsinks,
Redundant and hotswap cooling fans, (2) risers with 3 x8 slots 
(2xFHFL 1xFHHL), (2) 750W AC Power Supply, Intel(R) Remote
Management Module 4, (1 Set) Value rails 
   Qty: 1



I will use ZFS as file system for both the root drive (SSD ?) - and the Adaptec 
RAID / JBOD controller (RAIDZ2 probably).

I wanted to know what were your experiences on choosing an SSD HD as master 
boot device / root FS ? 

Do you think I should go for a redundant SSD drives (RAID 1) or does this 
offers limited interest in such config ? 


I have been reading comments about "failure" / problems here and there, but 
comments are not so fresh (one year is very old in SSD). 

So I wanted to have fresh infos and updates on your experiences with SSD on 
such mid size system. 


Thx. 

––
-> Grégory Bernard Director <-
---> www.osnet.eu <---
--> Your provider of OpenSource appliances <--
––
OSnetOSnetOSnetOSnetOSnetOSnetOSnetOSnetOSnetO

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Re: portsnap

[Steve O'Hara-Smith]

On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 09:15:16 + (UTC)
jb  wrote:

> Robert Bonomi  mail.r-bonomi.com> writes:
> 
> > You persist in repeating your error.
> > ...
> 
> Well, yes - CLI applies to many environments (not only OSs), with the same
> basic format.

Why don't the pair of you try and understand each other instead of
arguing over the meanings of words as though it was a matter of life and
death. As it happens you are *both* right about the usage of the word
command. You *both* fail to appreciate that like *every* other word in the
English language it has a context dependant meaning.

Stop masturbating over a dictionary and work on your problem or
take it elsewhere - please.

-- 
Steve O'Hara-Smith 
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Re: portsnap

[jb]

Robert Bonomi  mail.r-bonomi.com> writes:

> ... 
> > > > > > > You gave portsnap two commands - one succeeded and the other 
> > > > > > > failed.
> > > >
> > > > Nope. I gave ONE command: 'portsnap fetch update'.
> > >
> > > FALSE TO FACT.
> >
> > No way. UNIX command (on a command line, also called CLI), is anything 
> > between prompt
> 
> *NOBODY* said "Unix command".  _You_ falsely imputed that meaning to
> the respondants use of the word in a context with a different applicable
> meaning.
> 
> 'command' has many meanings -- *especially* in the Unix environment.
> 
> [drivelectomy]
> 
> You persist in repeating your error.
> ...

Well, yes - CLI applies to many environments (not only OSs), with the same
basic format.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Command-line_interface
...
The general pattern of an OS command line interface is:
prompt command param1 param2 param3 ... paramN

A simple CLI will display a prompt, accept a "command line" typed by the user
terminated by the Enter key, then execute the specified command and provide
textual display of results or error messages. Advanced CLIs will validate,
interpret and parameter-expand the command line before executing the specified
command, and optionally capture or redirect its output.
...
Command prompt
...
Arguments
...
Command-line option
...

Examples:
- OSs (e.g. UNIX)
  $ portsnap fetch update
- database and/or languages environments (e.g. SQL)
  sql > select  from 
- applications (e.g. reservation system)
  > pax dl123/12augdis
  which means:
  display a list of passengers
  for flight DL123, departing on 12 Aug, out of DIS (Disney Land)

So, we are discussing here things that are obvious.
People who write technical or user manuals should have a clue of what they are
writing and talking about (e.g. what is "a command", also called "an entry").
Otherwise they screw up the users and "it's a software error" sysadmins.
jb


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Re: /usr/sbin/ppp doubling connections on tun0

[Nikos Vassiliadis]

On 11/20/2012 2:49 AM, andrew clarke wrote:

I'm using /usr/sbin/ppp for PPPoE over an ADSL modem in bridged mode:

# ifconfig tun0
tun0: flags=8051 metric 0 mtu 1492
 options=8
 inet 203.217.27.170 --> 203.215.15.252 netmask 0x
 inet 203.214.46.107 --> 203.215.7.251 netmask 0x
 Opened by PID 49158

What would cause this?

Notice the two IP addresses assigned to the same interface. It should
just have one address assigned.


Yes, I think this is caused by NAT. It seems that this is feature:

 iface-alias
 Default: Enabled if -nat is specified.  This option simply tells
 ppp to add new interface addresses to the interface rather than
 replacing them.  The option can only be enabled if network
 address translation is enabled (``nat enable yes'').

 With this option enabled, ppp will pass traffic for old interface
 addresses through the NAT engine (see libalias(3)), resulting in
 the ability (in -auto mode) to properly connect the process that
 caused the PPP link to come up in the first place.

 Disabling NAT with ``nat enable no'' will also disable
 `iface-alias'.


One could say that it's a surprising one! But, yes, is deliberate.

HTH, Nikos
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