Re: [Haifux] Haifux Digest, Vol 17, Issue 15
Eran, I am glad to hear that you find Linux useful and productive. I have an idea of running a Linux party in the lab, in one of these Wednesday Noon no teaching time at the Technion. This party will include help in installation for people who did not install, and free discussion of installation problems. More information, including dates, will follow. Regarding your suggestions: * I asked the lab engineer to install Open Office 3.0. I hope this will solve some of the problems. I am not sure this will solve the little and annoying layout differences though. * The CR/CRLF problem is not the main issue I think. It is not a problem in Eclipse as far as I know. * VIM is great. It is difficult to convince people to use it though. I would be happy if the lab would attract Linux geeks who could help others, and in return would enjoy the real nice facilities. On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 8:59 AM, Eran Arbel sabrerun...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, some time reader, first time writer. I'm a second year CS student and had to work with the Linux in the farms for a while now and frankly, I love the idea that someone finally forced me to use Linux. I think it's a good thing. I've already had stuff explained to me and had a chance to explain things to others. I already told people that they better get used to using the Linux and Unix on the farm machines. Firstly, because they have to; Secondly, because it's better; And thirdly, because it's fun. Problems of Windows\Linux compatibility with code files I solved with Notepad++. I don't know if there's a Linux version or a Linux substitute but it's an awesome writer for windows that can display context in many languages and can also convert to\from Windows from\to Linux formatting. Saved me a lot of trouble. The new Open Office version (3 and up) is completely compatible with MS-Office 2007 documents and gave me no trouble as much as I've used it, making it better than MS-Office if compatibility is the question. It looks different but doesn't require that much of a leap to change to. And it's freely available to both Windows and Linux users. I used vim to program on the Linux and Unix machines but my brother recommended Eclipse so I want to try that if anyone is willing to teach me. I know of a Linux geek in the CS farm's support team but I think it takes more than that. I don't know how the W2L lectures went before but I agree that installing Linux, as far as I tried Ubuntu, is pretty straight forward. It's all the configuration afterwords that's troublesome. Up until now I have failed completely at configuring mine for WiFi and a secondary display and those two, along with 'How the hell do I run a Virtual Machine\Box on my Linux?' are the major hurdles before I completely switch to Linux. So, any info on that will be welcome. (I've tried Ubuntu 8.04 and fiddled with Satanic slightly but not much) ___ Haifux mailing list Haifux@haifux.org http://hamakor.org.il/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haifux
Re: [Haifux] Haifux Digest, Vol 17, Issue 15
Hi Shlomi, Thanks for the tip. I usually use flip, but added a section to our Wiki to reflect you suggestions, see: http://ssdl-linux.cs.technion.ac.il/wiki/index.php/Beginning_SSDL_users#File_Conversion Problems of Windows\Linux compatibility with code files I solved with Notepad++. I don't know if there's a Linux version or a Linux substitute but it's an awesome writer for windows that can display context in many languages and can also convert to\from Windows from\to Linux formatting. Saved me a lot of trouble First of all, you can always use tofrodos to do the conversion if needed: http://www.thefreecountry.com/tofrodos/index.shtml And otherwise, vim and other text editors for Linux are capable of converting from CRLF to LF and vice-versa, but I cannot tell you off-hand how to do that. (See the online help). ___ Haifux mailing list Haifux@haifux.org http://hamakor.org.il/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haifux
Re: [Haifux] Haifux Digest, Vol 17, Issue 15
Sorana, I am not sure what you mean by VirtualBox. So many messages are going on in this list, so I may have missed something. If this is what I thought it was, then I would like to make one thing clear: I will not allow Windows to be run on the machines we have in the lab. This is not so much because I hate Windows. (I do not, I like it, and I think it has its place.) It is just that we are working with Microsoft to make a donation of hardware for running Windows - with remote logins from the Linux machines for those special cases you need windows. Installing a virtual windows machine will defy these efforts. Yossi On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 1:08 PM, Sorana Fraier sf10...@gmail.com wrote: As I already promised to Schahar, I am willing to help. I can help with VirtualBox. VirtualBox has 2 versions 1, open source and another binary. The binary has an advantage that it supports usb, while the other doesn't. I am happily using VirtualBox-bin on my laptop and I know all the ins and outs. I suggest to install VirtualBox-bin. Vmware, I tried a couple of times and wasn't satisfied so much, but that may be due to unusual things that I needed to do. The installation of Vmware is a little bit more complicated and annoying. ___ Haifux mailing list Haifux@haifux.org http://hamakor.org.il/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haifux
Re: [Haifux] Haifux Digest, Vol 17, Issue 15
I suggested my help regarding VirtaulBox because one of the students mentioned it here. If I missed the correct thread, please accept my apology. I can help in other things as well. Sorana On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 1:31 PM, Yossi Gil yossi@gmail.com wrote: Sorana, I am not sure what you mean by VirtualBox. So many messages are going on in this list, so I may have missed something. If this is what I thought it was, then I would like to make one thing clear: I will not allow Windows to be run on the machines we have in the lab. This is not so much because I hate Windows. (I do not, I like it, and I think it has its place.) It is just that we are working with Microsoft to make a donation of hardware for running Windows - with remote logins from the Linux machines for those special cases you need windows. Installing a virtual windows machine will defy these efforts. Yossi On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 1:08 PM, Sorana Fraier sf10...@gmail.com wrote: As I already promised to Schahar, I am willing to help. I can help with VirtualBox. VirtualBox has 2 versions 1, open source and another binary. The binary has an advantage that it supports usb, while the other doesn't. I am happily using VirtualBox-bin on my laptop and I know all the ins and outs. I suggest to install VirtualBox-bin. Vmware, I tried a couple of times and wasn't satisfied so much, but that may be due to unusual things that I needed to do. The installation of Vmware is a little bit more complicated and annoying. ___ Haifux mailing list Haifux@haifux.org http://hamakor.org.il/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haifux
Re: [Haifux] Haifux Digest, Vol 17, Issue 15
On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 12:13:19PM +0200, Shlomi Fish wrote: On Tuesday 27 January 2009 08:59:51 Eran Arbel wrote: Hi, some time reader, first time writer. I'm a second year CS student and had to work with the Linux in the farms for a while now and frankly, I love the idea that someone finally forced me to use Linux. I think it's a good thing. I've already had stuff explained to me and had a chance to explain things to others. I already told people that they better get used to using the Linux and Unix on the farm machines. Firstly, because they have to; Secondly, because it's better; And thirdly, because it's fun. Problems of Windows\Linux compatibility with code files I solved with Notepad++. I don't know if there's a Linux version or a Linux substitute but it's an awesome writer for windows that can display context in many languages and can also convert to\from Windows from\to Linux formatting. Saved me a lot of trouble First of all, you can always use tofrodos to do the conversion if needed: http://www.thefreecountry.com/tofrodos/index.shtml And otherwise, vim and other text editors for Linux are capable of converting from CRLF to LF and vice-versa, but I cannot tell you off-hand how to do that. vim will show you if the file is dos in the info line. For more information: vim +'h dos-file-formats' (To which I got by :h dostabtabtab... ) Most files can be either dos or unix, but some (notably shell scripts) must be unix. BTW: another crazy way to convert source files between dos and unix formats is to store them in an SVN repository and check them out separately in each environment. You can create a simple SVN repository under your home directory and access it through file: or svn+ssh: . -- Tzafrir Cohen | tzaf...@jabber.org | VIM is http://tzafrir.org.il || a Mutt's tzaf...@cohens.org.il || best ICQ# 16849754 || friend ___ Haifux mailing list Haifux@haifux.org http://hamakor.org.il/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haifux
Re: [Haifux] Haifux Digest, Vol 17, Issue 15
Tzafrir Cohen wrote:
Most files can be either dos or unix, but some (notably shell scripts)
must be unix.
C source and header files too. For most lines, a new line or a carriage
return followed by a line feed are the same in C, so it is not trivial
to spot the difference. It does show up when you start using line
continuation macros:
#define A a line\
followed by another line
If this file is under a Unix encoding, it will work fine on both
platforms. If it's under a Windows encoding, under Unix the compiler
will assume that the back slash escapes the carriage return, which
leaves the new line unescaped, and the file will not compile (at least
on some compilers).
BTW: another crazy way to convert source files between dos and unix
formats is to store them in an SVN repository and check them out
separately in each environment.
That only works if you set the svn:eol-style svn property to native.
This does not happen automatically.
svn propset svn:eol-style native {list of C source and header files, or
whatever}
Be sure not to set this property on the Visual Studio solution files, as
it may well corrupt them.
Shachar
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Re: [Haifux] Haifux Digest, Vol 17, Issue 15
Sorana, How about it if you helped students installing virtual boxes in their laptops? I would appreciate in help doing this on my own laptop computer. Yossi ___ Haifux mailing list Haifux@haifux.org http://hamakor.org.il/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haifux
Re: [Haifux] Haifux Digest, Vol 17, Issue 15
Hi, some time reader, first time writer. I'm a second year CS student and had to work with the Linux in the farms for a while now and frankly, I love the idea that someone finally forced me to use Linux. I think it's a good thing. I've already had stuff explained to me and had a chance to explain things to others. I already told people that they better get used to using the Linux and Unix on the farm machines. Firstly, because they have to; Secondly, because it's better; And thirdly, because it's fun. Problems of Windows\Linux compatibility with code files I solved with Notepad++. I don't know if there's a Linux version or a Linux substitute but it's an awesome writer for windows that can display context in many languages and can also convert to\from Windows from\to Linux formatting. Saved me a lot of trouble. The new Open Office version (3 and up) is completely compatible with MS-Office 2007 documents and gave me no trouble as much as I've used it, making it better than MS-Office if compatibility is the question. It looks different but doesn't require that much of a leap to change to. And it's freely available to both Windows and Linux users. I used vim to program on the Linux and Unix machines but my brother recommended Eclipse so I want to try that if anyone is willing to teach me. I know of a Linux geek in the CS farm's support team but I think it takes more than that. I don't know how the W2L lectures went before but I agree that installing Linux, as far as I tried Ubuntu, is pretty straight forward. It's all the configuration afterwords that's troublesome. Up until now I have failed completely at configuring mine for WiFi and a secondary display and those two, along with 'How the hell do I run a Virtual Machine\Box on my Linux?' are the major hurdles before I completely switch to Linux. So, any info on that will be welcome. (I've tried Ubuntu 8.04 and fiddled with Satanic slightly but not much) On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 10:38 PM, haifux-requ...@haifux.org wrote: Message: 4 Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 21:51:10 +0200 From: Eli Billauer e...@billauer.co.il Subject: Re: [Haifux] Student complaints. To: haifux@haifux.org Cc: Yossi Gil yossi@gmail.com Message-ID: 497e142e.9080...@billauer.co.il Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Hello again. Now we're talking! To begin with, I see that students mention problems with transporting files to Windows. I suppose that they use Microsoft's compiler, and run into problems with the back and forth? Which brings me to turn to all Linux evangelists out there: You've maybe missed it, but this is the moment you've been all waiting for: Someone has forced CS students to use Linux in the labs. They will end up either hating it and stick to Windows, or adopt it on their own computers, solving most of their annoying problems. And it looks like it's going to depend on, well, us. There may be a need to make a LiveCD for CS students, which would basically be the original Ubuntu disc + utilities for developing if necessary. This could allow students to use the same environment at home, without installing Linux on their hard disks. As this is an recurring process (the disc will need to be upgraded as Ubuntu gets upgraded) I can't see how it's done well by volunteers. But once someone has done it the first time, I suppose it will be pretty easy to repeat it. As for Eclipse: Dear Haifuxers, is any of use using it? Personally, I don't like IDEs, and I believe I have a few people with me on this mailing list. If the policy would be to guide students to work with more down-to-earth tools (XEmacs/vim, make, gcc, ddd etc) I suppose we have quite some material handy, and I suppose it won't be difficult to find someone to speak about these. I believe it's an educational choice, partly because the programmer gets a better feel of the tools, as opposed to IDEs which generally attempt to hocus-pocus. As for MS Office, there's always OpenOffice, which I don't use personally. If the real problem is compatibility between MS and OpenOffice, it's time to remind everyone that OpenOffice exists for Windows as well. Or use the LiveCD solution. As for the other issues, I can only ask one question: Do you have one Linux geek in the lab's support team? To me it seems like these problems require a few hours each to solve, which is peanuts in terms of employment, but too much to ask someone to volunteer for. Other views? Eli -- Web: http://www.billauer.co.il -- Don't let people drive you crazy when you know it's within walking distance. And no one ever said being a heretic was easy. May we meet in Less Interesting Times... http://eran.geek.co.il ___ Haifux mailing list Haifux@haifux.org http://hamakor.org.il/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haifux
