Re: [Haskell-cafe] Ordering vs. Order
On Oct 7, 2010, at 1:15 AM, Alexander Solla wrote: For example, a set with three elements can be ordered in three different ways. Six ways. I hate making such basic math mistakes. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Ordering vs. Order
On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 8:29 AM, Steve Schafer st...@fenestra.com wrote: I think the reason for this conceptual distinction can be traced to the derivation of ordering as the gerund form of the verb order, in that it implies that an action has occurred (or is still occurring). Reading the original message, this seems to be the misunderstanding. The verb order can be interpreted as something like sorting (what we mean in Haskell, can also be said to be giving order to the list) or to command something, which is pretty much a completely different meaning. -- Jeff Wheeler Undergraduate, Electrical Engineering University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Ordering vs. Order
On 10/7/10 8:35 AM, Ketil Malde wrote: Christian Sternagelc.sterna...@gmail.com writes: recently I was wondering about the two words order and ordering I would use ordering to mean the relation or function that orders (ranks) elements, and I'd use order to refer the actual progression. So by applying an ordering, you get elements in a particular order. +1. Though, as others've said, they're basically synonymous (functions are data, and data are functions :) One caveat is: consider the case where be pick a bunch of numbers at random, one at a time. The order of the numbers would be a relation on which number we picked before another; whereas the ordering of the numbers would still be the underlying order(ing) of the domain we're picking numbers from. E.g., if I pick [5,3,7,9] then 5 3 according to the order (in which the numbers were picked) but 3 5 according to the ordering (on the natural numbers). The other big caveat is that we can talk about the order of certain things (first-order logic, higher-order functions,...) and that has nothing to do with an ordering (of logic, functions,...). Or at least, nothing directly related to an ordering. -- Live well, ~wren ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Ordering vs. Order
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 10/7/10 04:02 , Christian Sternagel wrote: However, I do know that there are many publications about ordered structures which use the word ordering (most of which I'm aware of, not by native speakers). Like most things in Haskell, it's named with respect to mathematical jargon, not standard dictionaries. - -- brandon s. allbery [linux,solaris,freebsd,perl] allb...@kf8nh.com system administrator [openafs,heimdal,too many hats] allb...@ece.cmu.edu electrical and computer engineering, carnegie mellon university KF8NH -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.10 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAkyv2ykACgkQIn7hlCsL25VaVgCfSmQfCeOfvy+Har7VRvUKt5yD HUwAnjJXCP4M2sXmbkv0MwMVWthbS7IY =F184 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Ordering vs. Order
Hi all, I'm not a native English speaker and recently I was wondering about the two words order and ordering (the main reason why I write this to the Haskell mailing list, is that the type class Ordering does exist). My dictionaries tell me that order (besides other meanings) denotes an ordered structure on elements and ordering (as only meaning) denotes some request that I made at some entity. So, to me it seems that calling the type class Ordering is wrong ;) However, I do know that there are many publications about ordered structures which use the word ordering (most of which I'm aware of, not by native speakers). What do native speakers have to say about that? best regards chris ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Ordering vs. Order
On Oct 7, 2010, at 1:02 AM, Christian Sternagel wrote: Hi all, I'm not a native English speaker and recently I was wondering about the two words order and ordering (the main reason why I write this to the Haskell mailing list, is that the type class Ordering does exist). My dictionaries tell me that order (besides other meanings) denotes an ordered structure on elements and ordering (as only meaning) denotes some request that I made at some entity. So, to me it seems that calling the type class Ordering is wrong ;) However, I do know that there are many publications about ordered structures which use the word ordering (most of which I'm aware of, not by native speakers). What do native speakers have to say about that? They're pretty much synonymous. Given a specific context, an order is the relation that orders a set, whereas an ordering is a relation that orders a set. For example, a set with three elements can be ordered in three different ways. Each of them is an ordering. But none is THE order. (If the elements are integers, then they can inherit THE integer order, if you wanted the set to inherit that notion of an order) ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Ordering vs. Order
Chris, I'm not a native English speaker and recently I was wondering about the two words order and ordering (the main reason why I write this to the Haskell mailing list, is that the type class Ordering does exist). Irrelevant to your struggle, but note that the *type class* is dubbed Ord, while the Prelude provides a *type* Ordering: class ... = Ord a where ... data Ordering = LT | EQ | GT deriving ... Cheers, Stefan ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Ordering vs. Order
Christian Sternagel c.sterna...@gmail.com writes: recently I was wondering about the two words order and ordering I would use ordering to mean the relation or function that orders (ranks) elements, and I'd use order to refer the actual progression. So by applying an ordering, you get elements in a particular order. My dictionary lists them as synonyms for this, but order has the unfortunate potential to be confused with the verb, and generally seems to have more possible meanings than ordering. I'm not a native English speaker Me neither. :-) -k -- If I haven't seen further, it is by standing in the footprints of giants ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Ordering vs. Order
On Thu, 07 Oct 2010 10:02:20 +0200, you wrote: I'm not a native English speaker and recently I was wondering about the two words order and ordering (the main reason why I write this to the Haskell mailing list, is that the type class Ordering does exist). My dictionaries tell me that order (besides other meanings) denotes an ordered structure on elements and ordering (as only meaning) denotes some request that I made at some entity. So, to me it seems that calling the type class Ordering is wrong ;) Considering them both used as nouns, I would say that in normal usage, there is a difference in their active/passive connotation. If you have a collection of things, they have an order, whether or not that order was imposed on them (it could be that they just fell out of the box in a certain order). On the other hand, if they possess an ordering, it implies that someone or something put them in that order; i.e., that it was a purposeful act. I think the reason for this conceptual distinction can be traced to the derivation of ordering as the gerund form of the verb order, in that it implies that an action has occurred (or is still occurring). -Steve Schafer ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
